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Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ?


derek trotter 10 | 203  
27 Oct 2009 /  #151
Couldn't find a pic of the "God" in Southpark on any non-blocked site, but Jesus is a good second best ;)

is that mean you are at work place now and using company's computers ?
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650  
27 Oct 2009 /  #152
There's only one way to deal with religion. Don't be too involved in it. The more involved in it you are, the crazier it gets.
1jola 14 | 1,879  
27 Oct 2009 /  #153
And again, you're doing it: putting the blame on the Jews themselves.

No matter what vile notions about gentiles their holy books say and they practice, you find them blameless and not racist. How everyone is avoiding to call a spade a spade.

There's only one way to deal with religion. Don't be too involved in it. The more involved in it you are, the crazier it gets.

Religion is meant to be practiced not glanced at. In this case, the Levites and Pharises who dreamnt it up caused their people a lot of harm for generations to come.
vetala - | 382  
27 Oct 2009 /  #154
1jola, you forgot to add that Hitler also knew about this passage, which is why Holocaust happened. Yes, it definitely justifies everything, after all if Jews were perfect in every way then they wouldn't have been persecuted. I wonder how hard should Christians be persecuted now - for all those crusades and burning people at the stakes and all...
1jola 14 | 1,879  
27 Oct 2009 /  #155
vetala

I knew the Holocaust would surface but I expected it earlier. Go back and watch the video.

A fundamental question. When Nazis called Jews subhuman, we in unison condemn that; when Jews do the same there is silence. Why?
vetala - | 382  
27 Oct 2009 /  #156
Very well then - I hereby declare that this passage is despicable and I'm happy that Jews rarely, if ever, quote it while burning people at the stakes and gassing them.
1jola 14 | 1,879  
27 Oct 2009 /  #157
Oh, why the drama? Ever read Numbers in the OT? I guess they were quoting then.

They slaughtered everyone save the virgins. What did they need virgins for?

Mute point now. I hope you didn't get the idea that Jews should be persecuted or discriminated against. They should not be nor should they do it to others. I tried to put a perspective on Judeophobia. I don't know any religious Jews so I have no idea how would they treat me; I have some Jewish friends who are not religious and we are all good friends. They are not so touchy as some here. My family, before the war had close contact with Jews in their village and they lived in harmony. The war brought disaster on both, but much more on the Jews - four hundred Jewish families perished from that village.
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
27 Oct 2009 /  #158
I don't know any religious Jews so I have no idea how would they treat me;

That might depend whether someone is looking or not. But even then, they do show racial tendencies towards non-Jews.
news.yahoo/s/ap/20091027/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_jewish_school_1
1jola 14 | 1,879  
27 Oct 2009 /  #159
The article mentioned Progressive Judaism - something that sounds kosher to me:

"It reverences Jewish tradition, and seeks to preserve all that is good in the Judaism of the past. But it lives in the present. It desires that Judaism shall be an active force for good in the lives of Jewish individuals, families and communities today, and that it shall make its contribution to the betterment of human society. And it stresses "the full equality and participation of men and women in every sphere of religious life; an emphasis on ethical conduct above ritual observance; an affirmation of each individual's freedom to act responsibly in accordance with the dictates of the informed religious conscience; a pride in combining our Jewish heritage with full participation in the civic life of this country; and an awareness of our duty not only to the Jewish people and to the State of Israel, but also to the entire human family, each one of whom is created in the Divine image".[

wiki
MareGaea 29 | 2,752  
27 Oct 2009 /  #160
Not true.

Do you really think those autocrats took the time to consult in the Talmud and to sift through 1000's of pages to find this passage? Heck no. The Jews were different, inferior, murderers of Christ or whatever, they are not equal and got their restrictions. And as vetala points out correctly, they held some sort of position as middlemen, despised by their superiors and hated by the lower class, because their superiors made them perform the impopular tasks on the plebs their superiors didn't want to do. But this was only a short period of time; as soon as the Russians came, it was over. It was also during a period in which the Polish government paved unintentionally the way for the partitions of the 18th century.

They are not so touchy as some here.

It's not just you, but I found that on this forum there are some ppl, actually a lot more than one would expect, for which Jewishness is an issue and at given times proclaim the same things that were proclaimed before or during the war, maybe not with the intent that they should be killed or something, but it was this talk that eventually led to what happened. And I cannot understand that ppl just simply can say that as if it were nothing, as if these words are not burdened (we in NL say "loaded", don't know the English term for it) and still pop up with "evidence" about evil Jews - same all over again. See, if I would have been religious, I would have been Jewish, according to Jewish religious law. But I am not, I don't have any (true!) Jewish friend and my pssbl Jewishness was never an issue, even though the fact that my grandparents were the sole survivors of their respective families. It just didn't matter. And now it suddenly seems to matter. Like I said before, I have not been that much aware of my Jewishness until I started visiting PF, or when I met my first Poles, literally: "You look Jewish." "Oh, ok." "Are you Jewish?" "My mom is, why?" "So you are a Jew." "Oh, well I suppose so." They looked at me as if I wasn't the same person they just shared a drink with. I found that really strange. Anyhow, I am propagator of world peace and I am truly convinced that we should live together without any trouble as we only got one small ball and that's all we get. We don't own the World, the World owns us. It's good to remember that. Let's not make a mess of it, ok?

>^..^<

M-G (hence my nick - Mother Earth)
derek trotter 10 | 203  
27 Oct 2009 /  #161
you are very touchy MG but that could be easy understandable, you have been brought up in Netherlands, country with completely different history and particularly history of Jewish people, not Poland. You come from the country of Benedict Spinoza not of some cadik of Pinczow country and thats the consequences.
1jola 14 | 1,879  
27 Oct 2009 /  #162
It's not just you, but I found that on this forum there are some ppl, actually a lot more than one would expect, for which Jewishness is an issue

Listen, Pacha Mama, how is "Jewishness" an issue? We are two guys chating on the net about some issue, I truly don't get your drift. I was trying to find answers to why Jews have been disliked in all cultures and times. Judaism presents a problem to Jews because of its beliefs, I think, because some are truly shocking to outsiders. If I were brought up in a Jewish faith, I would have faced the same dilema or joy depending on how you look at it. It would be troubling to know that God is using gentiles to punish me with such severity as we have seen during the last war. But, trust me, your Jewishness is your personal issue and not mine. I think you are reading into it too much. At no point you even aknowledged some practices are racist, yet you called me a racist, a nobody, and an anti-Semite for posting a Jewish professor's text.

at given times proclaim the same things that were proclaimed before or during the war, maybe not with the intent that they should be killed or something, but it was this talk that eventually led to what happened.

Trust me, it was not this kind of talk. Some years ago, when I learned a little about Judaism, it didn't make me dislike the Jews; it is their belief and have mine. I am certain my beliefs are strange or even disgusting to some. What to do? In the beginning I said that people don't like when others don't want socialize with them, eat with them, etc. This, I still hold, had a big influence on the feeling called Judeophobia or anti-Semitism. I think it was a starting point. There were others later, as were mentioned by you and others. Some were rational, while others were totally irrational.

evidence" about evil Jews - same all over again

I posted no evidence about evil Jews. Sorry, that you perceive it as such.

Like I said before, I have not been that much aware of my Jewishness until I started visiting PF

We are happy to be of help. Maybe you are missing something cool in your life. Certainly, you are missing out on the Jewish humor.

Shall I have a rabbi call you? :) I don't want to be a spoiler, but Orthodoxy seems like such a hassle, but think of the networking possibilities. :)

Anyhow, I am propagator of world peace

So refrain from calling me names.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,802  
27 Oct 2009 /  #163
I was trying to find answers to why Jews have been disliked in all cultures and times.

It's really not that hard....
They were made to leave their land quite unvoluntarely and wherever they went they were the odd ones sticking out, trying hard to keep their traditions alive, often unwilling and not able to fully assimiliate/integrate.

The odd one out is always the scape goat in times of stress...especially without any PCishness, religious dictatorship and no Internet!!!

It's not rocket science actually...
1jola 14 | 1,879  
27 Oct 2009 /  #164
...if it was that easy, why didn't you say it before?

Let me tell M-G a joke, to see if he can relax a bit.

A Russian, a Norwegian, and a Pole are bragging how cold it is in their countries.

The Russian says: In Russia it is so cold that you can put a bottle of pure grain alcohol outside and it freezes in 30 seconds.

The Norwegian says: That's nothing. In Norway it is so cold that the Golfstrom freezes.

And the Pole: Ah, what the hell, let the old Jew freeze.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,802  
27 Oct 2009 /  #165
You have a problem with Jews 1jola? Is that the reason why you so adore the Chinese commies that you want to relocate there?

Do you hope China has no Jews??? ;) Think again..

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_China
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650  
27 Oct 2009 /  #166
The chinese have taken communism to hideous levels...
Mr Grunwald 33 | 2,156  
28 Oct 2009 /  #167
The Norwegian says: That's nothing. In Norway it is so cold that the Golfstrom freezes.

Hahhahahaha good one ;)

And the Pole: Ah, what the hell, let the old Jew freeze.

I didn't find it any funny at all. Except for thoose who have an imige that every Pole is an anti-semite -.-

The chinese have taken communism to hideous levels...

I am wondering if they really do have communism over there. Cause people, it has survived! Isn't it strange? :)
cheehaw 2 | 263  
28 Oct 2009 /  #168
And this one:

Great link, thanks.
1jola 14 | 1,879  
28 Oct 2009 /  #169
Is that the reason why you so adore the Chinese commies

You still can't get over the idea that the Chinese were writing poetry when the Great Tutons were still running around with clubs around the Black Forest barking at each other.

I neither adore nor despise the Chinese, I am simply interested in their culture. As to their being commies, some of the denser Americans would call me a commie when I was kid because I came from Poland.

Your brief lapse of civility can be perhaps explained by ignorance of Chinese culture. Here is some help. Zhou Dynasty is probably a good place to start:

chinaknowledge.de/History/Zhou/zhou.html

I didn't find it any funny at all. Except for thoose who have an imige that every Pole is an anti-semite -.-

In this touchy-feely, PC world, pretty soon all jokes will be banned. Only the Nerwegians are safe in that joke.

that every Pole is an anti-semite

No, I that joke there were only three people.

The chinese have taken communism to hideous levels...

Just like your country has taken hypocricy to new heights, topping it with a Noble Peace Prize.

Besides, does one pimple make a beautiful face ugly?
MareGaea 29 | 2,752  
28 Oct 2009 /  #170
1jola

Oh, I'm relaxed enough. This is just internet and when I write agitated it doesn't mean that I really am. I write for a living, you know. So I can write any way I want to. Sometimes I write agitated, sometimes I don't write agitated. Sometimes things annoy me sometimes they don't. Simple as that. Maybe you were just the next one in a long line of ppl here trying to prove that the Jews are actually very bad, no matter in what form this badness may occur. It started to annoy me after reading depraved idiots ranting on about this. You were just one who was trying to say the same, only with different means. And it's funny that those same ppl get on their hind legs once you even so much as slightly hint that Poles just maybe could've been bad - yet no-one calls them an idiot. And I am supposed to be portrayed as a basket case, simply because I get annoyed by this archaic nonsense? Heck no, I'm as sane as the next guy, I just don't take that crap.

derek trotter

Does the above answer your remark? I think that speaking of a certain group of ppl like that is not of this time anymore.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)
1jola 14 | 1,879  
28 Oct 2009 /  #171
MareGaea

I don't read all threads, but I have been reading PF for several years and posting for a year and have seen no depraved idiots here.

You might not notice that in the international press it is chic to slam Poles at any oportune moment. You, being a reader of that press, sometimes repeat those lies. It is more likely that you will find depraved idiots writing for New York Times.

Here is an excerpt of Professor Lipstadt's trip to Auschwitz, just to give you an idea what annoys us:

It is ironic that this should happen to me because whenever I hear Jews say: "The Poles were worse than the Germans," I point out that that is a pretty a-historical [dumb] statement given that the Germans planned and executed the worst murder of Jews in history. German architects, engineers, doctors, organizers, and all sorts of other people made this happen. Unlike Lithuanians, Ukrainians, Estonians, all of whom formed units of the German auxiliary, Poles were oppressed by the Germans. Recently someone said to me, "But Poles administered the camps." There were certainly Poles who, as prisoners, assisted the Germans [see QBVII by Leon Uris or, for a non-fictional account of the same story, Auschwitz in the Courtroom] but they were not responsible for the Holocaust. There were Poles who turned Jews in to Nazis. And there were Poles who hid Jews. In fact, at Yad Vashem there are more Polish righteous gentiles honored than any other nation. [Of course, this, in part, is because there were more Jews being persecuted in Poland than in any place else.]

lipstadt.blogspot.com/search/label/Auschwitz%3A%20My%20visit%201-05

Compare some of those opinions with this one posted here recently by someone whose writing style you will recognize:

2) the Nazis knew that they could do this in Eastern Europe rightaway and not in Western Europe, because anti-semitism wasn't as deeply rooted in the West as it was in the East. They knew if they would start shooting and killing Jews the way they did in PL or in RU, the Westerners would never accept that, hence cause a lot of unrest they didn't need.

This poster suggests that Poles would easily accept the shooting of Jews because of their anti-Semitism. After that, he got a lesson in Judaism.
cheehaw 2 | 263  
29 Oct 2009 /  #172
I write for a living, you know.

You are on state welfare then?

After that, he got a lesson in Judaism.

I don't think he understands the lesson quite yet as he is still defending jewry in general fashion including Talmudic Judaism.

Which would execute him in the cruelist of fashions as an apostate jew idolator taken with adoration of Gaia were it not for the governments outside of Israel which hold those views at bay. It would be better he get his wish and be fully subjected to those things he claims to love and defend so much.

Then perhaps we would have peace.

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