We don't mean any form of confederation or "commonwealth".
Though in the future it wouldnt hurt but having democratic neighbours is a start :)
Poland before WWII or Poland now what would you choose?
Though in the future it wouldnt hurt but having democratic neighbours is a start :)
Giving you some political support we do not expect anything in exchange.
It's a healthy political business.
Win win option
Win win option
If you don't expect anything, why is it win-win option and healthy political business?
Stop pretending your arrogant heart explosions. ;)
Stop discussing Danzig or Gdansk.
Why?
Borrka, I think that you haven't read many posts and many simple questions which I supposedly didn't answer.
I asked you a question Nathan, your country is absolutely alone in Europe, no one will support you in case of Russian agression
Who will support Poland in case of aggression? Haha. WWll - any clue? If it is necessary, everyone is disposable and your security is based solely on your abilities to survive.
looking for friends should be your major priority.
The friendship comes with respect which comes from power. Ukraine has to figure its internal problems - lots of confrontation and BS. When this is over, then we will talk about friendship. Till that time I don't expect anything from you, but spitting in the face and throwing Big Brother's loving arm on my shoulder.
who do you think will come help you against Russia or agressive EU economy?
No one will do a thing. And I hope not only me realizes that. Even with the gas, EU was scared to state that Russia was cutting the gas supply and everyone was ranting about ass-holes Ukrainians making winter in Europe cold. And I understand you absolutely - everyone defends its own interests. That's ok, but at least have decency to stop these nonsensic friendship BS and mutual love.
no one except Poland is interested in the very existence of your state
Do you think Ukraine is interested in your existance or existance of any other country safe for football, tourism and business interests?
No Nathan, an alliance with Russia would most likely end with you losing large parts of your country and having your economy drained leaving your country a 3rd world ruin, an alliance with Poland means economic ties, international recognition and significant leverage in defence of your interests on the international arena, a potential alliance with Poland can grant you things you could never have on your own and in exchange we get cheap labor force that can be easily polonised, a close military and economical partner.
Who is talking about alliance with Russia? Only strong economic development based on stable internal political environment is a key for my country to become an important voice in this world. Only then international community will be interested in investing money to make nice profits of that development. So I don't expect anything, but my country to solve its internal problems and then we will talk. Till that moment enjoy your loving sarcastic arrogance.
Poland before WWII was full of spirit, Piłsudki really fired up the hearts of the masses until him untimely death in 1935. It was a country seeking to redefine itself after having been put back on the map in 1918.
Now, we have Tusk who is doing some good things ( I hear). Still, it's a neutral government in terms of effect and many Poles went back to the UK after finding nothing here.
Modern Poland has more appeal in some ways but some Poles would benefit from seeing how it was in the interwar years.
Now, we have Tusk who is doing some good things ( I hear). Still, it's a neutral government in terms of effect and many Poles went back to the UK after finding nothing here.
Modern Poland has more appeal in some ways but some Poles would benefit from seeing how it was in the interwar years.
If you don't expect anything, why is it win-win option and healthy political business? Stop pretending your arrogant heart explosions. ;)
I don't expect anything from you (Ukrainians) except for being Ukraine and not Malorosiya.
Is that too hard to understand ?
And how am I (or any kind of my "explosions") arrogant ?
Enlighten me pls.
Borrka, I think that you haven't read many posts
Sure.
I don't have enough time for kindergarten level flame wars.
At least today lol.
However your besieged fortress Ukraine conception and very clear picture of enemy is something new to me.
Same goes for Europe waiting for you until Ukrainians can manage their internal problems
Well, feel free to belive the Earth is flat and located on four elephants.
(I'm not arrogant but joking only)
Who will support Poland in case of aggression? Haha. WWll - any clue? If it is necessary, everyone is disposable and your security is based solely on your abilities to survive.
USA, EU, of course i agree it may happen that Poland will be abandoned like in 1939 but its not that likely and even our domestic military strength is levels above yours, the point is that we're currently in a much better position and we have the means to put you in a much more secure spot as well.
Do you think Ukraine is interested in your existance or existance of any other country safe for football, tourism and business interests?
If its not then i'm rather sorry for you, at this point you need allies, you cant afford isolationistic policies.
Who is talking about alliance with Russia?
Janukowycz, Tymoszenko, Russia :)))
Only strong economic development based on stable internal political environment is a key for my country to become an important voice in this world.
Except at this moment you're unable to achieve it on your own.
Till that moment enjoy your loving sarcastic arrogance.
I'm not arrogant i'm realistic.
Say Nathan what is wrong about Poland considering good relationship with Ukraine to be a strategic objective of our politics ?
Nothing. I am talking here not with sober politicians, but mostly with those who aren't sober and will be electing future generations of your country's politicum. It is of my concern. That's all. Personally I enjoy your views on our countries' relations issue as well as I found many common ideas with Pawian. It is a good discussion. Sometimes I talk with Sokrates and Ironside and rough expressions get out. It's Ok. If you don't have enough time to look through our "kindergarten talk", you should avoid commenting isolate rips of sentences though :)
at this point you need allies, you cant afford isolationistic policies.
You are an ally, what else do you need an award for that or something?
Except at this moment you're unable to achieve it on your own.
Thank you for help in past centuries. I think Ukraine will manage somehow in finding other partners as well in moving towards prosperity. Develop, grow, we need a strong partner. :)
You are an ally, what else do you need an award for that or something?
Welllllllll annexing your country, enslaving your people and making you work on our farms as feudal peasants would be nice, except i dont have a field ...
Thank you for help in past centuries.
Oh come on, a few centuries of pacification and serfdom and you guys are so bitter, look at all the great things we introduced Ukraine to! Siege, impaling, heavy cavalry charge, artillery barrage, serfdom!
Oh come on, a few centuries of pacification and serfdom and you guys are so bitter, look at all the great things we introduced Ukraine to! Siege, impaling, heavy cavalry charge, artillery barrage, serfdom!
That's true. Ukrainian fields are rich because of Polish meat supply. Many Polish horseriders rode their horses for the last time on Ukrainian lands. Now we get beautiful wheat harvest out of your cavalry with pigeon wings and artillerated asses. You are welcome any time - there is always need in adding some Polish humus to our fields. Don't forget chicken wings for your hussaria ;) it makes the soil fluffier.
What would you fight Poland with Nathan? Foul language? Oh wait i forgot Ukraine is strong, would you like to know how much money you spend on your strong military annualy?:)
Messing with your misplaced sense of national pride asside that only further proves my point how utterly helpless your country is at present.
Messing with your misplaced sense of national pride asside that only further proves my point how utterly helpless your country is at present.
Pinching Pete - | 554
13 Jun 2009 / #250
That's true. Ukrainian fields are rich because of Polish meat supply.
Lol, Ukrainian strawberries are the best now. That must be the secret.
Oh wait i forgot Ukraine is strong
if you wouldn't get help from EU (mainly from Germany, UK and France) I wonder how strong Poland would be now, lol.
Whats your point? UK, France and Germany got where they are because of the Marshalls Plan so its not like Western Europe is so developed on its merry own, it still doesnt change the fact that we pulled miracles out of our ass foreign aid or not.
if you wouldn't get help from EU (mainly from Germany, UK and France) I wonder how strong Poland would be now, lol.
Much stronger!!
That's true. Ukrainian fields are rich because of Polish meat supply.
Are talking about Wolyn?
And riders had the same right to be there if no better than so called ukrainian about nobody heard at the time!
And Poles defended peasant from Tatar and Turks if not for us you would have been slaves in Egypt or somewhere else !
Stop that nonsense about occupation, and I'm talking about Ukraine not about Lwów and surrounding area.
UK, France and Germany got where they are because of the Marshalls Plan so its not like Western Europe is so developed on its merry own,
geez, they were already developed way before the WWII.
They were destroyed during the WWII and this is the only reason why they even needed help. Poland was destroyed too but even before WWII wasn't very developed to begin with. This is my point!!!
Much stronger!!
never was and never will be without someone elses help. Poland always had heroic soldiers, that's true (you might be one of them, your name sounds heroic :-) ) but you guys never had smart economist or politician and this a known fact too.
but you guys never had smart economist or politician and this a known fact too.
Especially in XVI century:)
They were destroyed during the WWII and this is the only reason why they even needed help. Poland was destroyed too but even before WWII wasn't very developed to begin with.
Destruction of west countries wasn't even comparable to destruction of Poland. If there wasn't war, Poland wouldn't need help too:P(help, which we didn't receive).
What would you fight Poland with Nathan?
Like Ukrainian Cossacks in past centuries had what to fight you with, we have as well. I know that Germany dresses you and gives you tanks, but it's ok. As you know we produce our own tanks - T-84 Oplot-M - one example + Ukrainian soldiers are braver and willing to cut some fluffy Polish feathers any time.
Lol, Ukrainian strawberries are the best now. That must be the secret.
Damn, I gave out our secret ingredient. ;)
And riders had the same right to be there if no better
True, they helped out with our exports in strawberries. The chicken wings of hussraria - delicious.
They were destroyed during the WWII and this is the only reason why they even needed help. Poland was destroyed too but even before WWII wasn't very developed to begin with. This is my point!!!
What do you mean developed?
never was and never will be without someone elses help. Poland always had heroic soldiers, that's true (you might be one of them, your name sounds heroic :-) ) but you guys never had smart economist or politician and this a known fact too.
never? thats simply a lie or ignorance.)))))
and never sounds so eternal ........
I'm not heroic, far from it...
As for economist - not true.
With politician is tricky, how smart one has to be to be a president of USA ????
Developed in terms of thriving industry, solid infrastructure and open trade with other countries perhaps??
Was Balcerowicz on a par with Adam Smith? ;0 ;)
Was Balcerowicz on a par with Adam Smith? ;0 ;)
What do you mean developed?
developed - being changed over time so as to be e.g. stronger or more complete or more successful;
I'm not heroic, far from it...
you come across heroic, you fight with determination anyone on this forum who doesn't feel or act Polish
As for economist - not true.
Ok, tell me please about Polish economical achievements anytime before 1989
president of USA
if you're talking about Obama or even Bush (especially the first one),
I admit they both suck but almost any other one before was OK.
Lol, Ukrainian strawberries are the best now. That must be the secret.
or Chernobyl radioactivity LOL....
Like Ukrainian Cossacks in past centuries had what to fight
Gangsters? Cossacks were pirates of the steps ! Sure they were alway for a fight to get a spoils out of it!
Developed in terms of thriving industry, solid infrastructure and open trade with other countries perhaps??
Well, Poland was developed well enough.
Was Balcerowicz on a par with Adam Smith? ;0 ;)
Balcerowicz ???????????????????? don't use a swear words, please, Seanus)))))
And who was Smith - theoretician, writing about what was already in motion in England of his times! Ricardo?
you come across heroic, you fight with determination anyone on this forum who doesn't feel or act Polish
Come on !!!? I'm only voicing my opinion, and I think I'm being a very sensible about it, after all it is Polish forum!
developed - being changed over time so as to be e.g. stronger or more complete or more successful;
Poland between 1921-1939 considering starting point it was a great success!
if you're talking about Obama or even Bush (especially the first one),
USA is great economy, unparalleled military, financial and industrial power , how smart one has to be not to **** up things ??
Only president worth mention in the XX century is Regan.
Ok, tell me please about Polish economical achievements anytime before 1989
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C5%82adys%C5%82aw_Grabski
en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gdynia&oldid=294678448
As for great impact on the world economy : en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ignacy_%C5%81ukasiewicz&oldid=294590579
aphrodisiac 11 | 2427
13 Jun 2009 / #261
and what is the use of it now, providing that what is saying is true?
Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11831
13 Jun 2009 / #262
Poland between 1921-1939 considering starting point it was a great success!
Well...they sucked!
Nationalism ruled, minorities suffered...Poland invaded other countries, had two wars, got overrun and destroyed in the latter...and all that in such a short time! When you call that success..
Ok, tell me please about Polish economical achievements anytime before 1989
Heh:)
After the Kopernikus-formular Grabski was russian and Lusasiewicz was austrian :)
(And Gdynia was long time prussian) :):):)
and what is the use of it now, providing that what is saying is true?
yep, this is how I see it too, Jimi Hendrix is dead, Janis Joplin , Einstein too, the world is simply unjust ;-)
Nationalism ruled, minorities suffered...Poland invaded other countries, had two wars, got overrun and destroyed in the latter...and all that in such a short time! When you call that success..
This is our part of the world due to partition of Poland others were playing here and its takes time for them to get use to the idea they cannot do as they please!
Anyway BB we discussing here economics !!!
After the Kopernikus-formular Grabski was russian and Lusasiewicz was austrian :)
Its not Copernicus formula but true of his times!!!Its different in XIX century were modern nationalism was born!
Grabski Polish PM and Minister?
Lukasiewicz-
Are Austrians claim him as one of they own?
BB are you smoking weed?
(And Gdynia was long time prussian) :):):)
Sure village with 1000 souls - Poland build from scratch port and town after 1918 did you know that?
Smith was the founder of modern economics, Ironside. He was widely regarded as being so.
Developed enough to provide a vast array of opportunities? Look at the Jews, early days. They were poor before WWII (in Poland). They had to make opportunities for themselves to reach prominent positions.
Developed enough to provide a vast array of opportunities? Look at the Jews, early days. They were poor before WWII (in Poland). They had to make opportunities for themselves to reach prominent positions.
Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11831
13 Jun 2009 / #266
BB are you smoking weed?
*looks for hidden camera*
Smith was the founder of modern economics, Ironside. He was widely regarded as being so.
Theory seems not working, and economics is a bit sinister occupation, better to be fortune teller, credit crunch....)))))
Grabski tested his skills in action!
Smith I know all about him .....
Developed enough to provide a vast array of opportunities? Look at the Jews, early days. They were poor before WWII (in Poland). They had to make opportunities for themselves to reach prominent positions.
Given time, yes, it was all going into a good direction, sadly I cannot say it about modern Poland.
What's wrong with modern Poland in an economic context, Ironside? Poland has taken the impact of the crisis quite well.
Because Poland economy is in permanent crisis..... there is no such a thing as square crisis, isn't?
A GDP growth of 1.2%, down from 1.5%, can hardly be described as a crisis, Ironside. Poland is still shaping up well and I have plenty figures to support that claim.