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World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World


chinczyk - | 32  
13 May 2009 /  #31
polish group reenacting germans in stalingrad

may be they were polish descendents living in germany and falsely believed hitler's propaganda,may be they were forced to fight along with nazis.this happened all over the world,every country unfortunately had betrayers,like in nips' imperial army there were taiwanese too,also nazis would think of those german descendants serving in the U.S.army as betrayers ,however, betrayers were trivially few after all,they could not be on behalf of the mainstream will of a country.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
13 May 2009 /  #32
Could you please list some of the assistance that you have liked to recieve from the UK at that time. Anything that would have made a difference short of a nuclear bomb which of course was not available.

Like attacking the harbors with your massive fleet? Supporting our naval base at Hel with your massive fleet? Attacking the German merchant navy with your massive fleet? Landing your forces in Danzig and other coastal locations?

I'm not even touching the subject of France, UK was guilty of negligence but what the frogs did was downright betreyal.

4th Largest army!!!! you fell in the 1st quickest time.

We did? We fought longer than France against forces 50% larger than France, while i have no illusion of the outcome of war even with Germany alone it would last 3-5 months instead of 30+ days, Polish army while 10 years backwards was by no means weak.
OP Wroclaw Boy  
13 May 2009 /  #33
Like attacking the harbors with your massive fleet? Supporting our naval base at Hel with your massive fleet? Attacking the German merchant navy with your massive fleet? Landing your forces in Danzig and other coastal locations?

would you have done that for us? Come on wed have been sitting ducks for the Luftwaffe

and the award for whinging Pole of the day goes to?

get over it man.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
13 May 2009 /  #34
would you have done that for us? Come on wed have been sitting ducks for the Luftwaffe

Luftwaffe was in Poland, had to be in Poland and its not like you did not have aircraft carriers to protect your fleet, the point of this is if you're going to let your ally get fvcked dont enter the alliance in the first place.

and the award for whinging Pole of the day goes to?

I'm not whining, you've asked what could you do and i told you what you could do, there's three countries that are to blame for WW2, Germany for starting it and France and UK for allowing it to happen, 1939 was a point where you could bend Germany over like a red headed stepchild, there would be no 7 years of food crisis in UK, no battle of britain, no occupation of France.
Harry  
13 May 2009 /  #35
Like attacking the harbors with your massive fleet?

The first mission against a German harbour was launched within 90 minutes of war being declared. Like the other missions of 1939 it was an abject failure because British forces were not prepared for war.

Supporting our naval base at Hel with your massive fleet?

Why should the British support a base which the majority of the Polish navy had decided to abandon in August: i.e. before the war even started your navy was running away from Hel? Your own navy recognized that operating in the Baltic in September 1939 was suicide, why do you expect the British to commit suicide for Poland? Polish forces wouldn’t do that.

Attacking the German merchant navy with your massive fleet?

Britain did impose a blockage on Germany. And the massive fleet was rather busy dealing with U-boat attacks on British merchant vessels and passenger liners.

Landing your forces in Danzig and other coastal locations?

How would you like them to have got there?

Luftwaffe was in Poland, had to be in Poland and its not like you did not have aircraft carriers to protect your fleet

Aircraft carriers in 1939 were useless against U-boats. HMS Courageous was sunk by a U-boat on 17 September 1939 with the lost of 518 crew. On 14 September 14 HMS Ark Royal only avoided being sunk because three torpedoes from U-39 exploded prematurely.

the point of this is if you're going to let your ally get fvcked dont enter the alliance in the first place.

The point is that Britain did all it could. The problem is that that wasn’t much.

there's three countries that are to blame for WW2, Germany for starting it and France and UK for allowing it to happen, 1939 was a point where you could bend Germany over like a red headed stepchild,

Not a word about the way that Poland treated the Germans unfortunate enough to live in interbellum Poland?
As always with Poles talking about 1939, you give no facts about what Britain could have done but didn’t. Instead you repeat the tired old lie about ‘western betrayal’ and refuse to admit even a jot of fault.

there would be no 7 years of food crisis in UK, no battle of britain, no occupation of France.

There would have been none of those if Britain had simply accepted Hitler’s repeated offers of peace.
OP Wroclaw Boy  
13 May 2009 /  #36
Well said Harry.
Ironside 50 | 11,036  
13 May 2009 /  #37
As always with Poles talking about 1939, you give no facts about what Britain could have done but didn’t. Instead you repeat the tired old lie about ‘western betrayal’ and refuse to admit even a jot of fault.

Sure , it was a Polish Government fault, they should know that France and Britain will not attack Germany during first week as they promised on paper!

Believing in honor and keeping promises and might of two world superpowers,
Government should know better and should know that France and Britain as a superpowers were passé.
Rule - one promise one should deliver (in on paper - more) and concept of honor have no use in the politic.
There is only interests.
That's why I blame Polish Government!

Not a word about the way that Poland treated the Germans unfortunate enough to live in interbellum Poland?

What it has to do with anything ?
What about Aborigines in interbellum Australia ?
What about Arabs in interbellum French Morocco?
What about Irish and Indians in interbellum British Empire ?
IF you claim that Hitler invaded Poland because of Germans living in Poland then you lie!

There would have been none of those if Britain had simply accepted Hitler’s repeated offers of peace.

Peas brother !
So, Britain should accepted, not scratching paper with empty guarantees.

Well said Harry.

No, it is not well said!
I can understand some Poles being pissed off by the all thing, as they still have to live with consequences of the WWII, very real for them even now.

I can understand British fed up with that subject, for them irrelevant and long forgotten past.

Never the less I don't understand claims made by some that Britain was doing Poland favor or fought to save Poland, or if not for Poland Britain somehow would not have been involved in the war.

That's nonsense and ******** !!!!
Britain was making it's own decisions based on their own interest and goal's !
It was not help, no charity and definitely British government hadn't has Poland's interest at heart!
That is not a blame( I hope everybody understood that).
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
13 May 2009 /  #38
I agree with Harry and WB, Chamberlain was hellbent on bringing about peace. His great notion of it was captured in words but I forgot what they were. Churchill had to do too little, too late. He was fighting a losing battle against time but he did remarkably well in putting the necessary preparations into place.

Tragic story? Well, of course!!
Ironside 50 | 11,036  
13 May 2009 /  #39
What about me?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
13 May 2009 /  #40
I agree with your answer to WB, yes. Britain has a strong sense of national interest and no more so was this true than under Churchill (Thatcher too). They were NOT doing Poland a favour at all.

In fact. Churchill didn't like the then Polish PM. I forgot his name. It begins with M.

It's when the war was kicking off, Britain knew it and they weren't thinking about Poland.
Ironside 50 | 11,036  
13 May 2009 /  #41
In fact. Churchill didn't like the then Polish PM. I forgot his name. It begins with M.

Polish PM before a war was Składkowski, with Mościcki as President!
Only other polish PM during the war with M - Mikołajczyk!?
Which one?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
13 May 2009 /  #42
Mikołajczyk, that's it. Churchill called the Poles selfish and focussed on their narrow-minded pursuits. He was no fan of the nation.

You could see the way that he sat proudly with Roosevelt and Stalin. He was another fan of British glory, not saving Poland.
isthatu2 4 | 2,703  
13 May 2009 /  #43
McCoy:
polish group reenacting germans in stalingrad
may be they were polish descendents living in germany

Or maybe they are just REENACTORS!!! Cripes,whats so hard about this concept for people to understand? When Gene Hackman dressed up as a certain Polish general that didnt mean he was descended from Polish paras does it? The clues in the name re enACTING......:)

Like attacking the harbors with your massive fleet?

What,through all the mines and straight past the MASSIVE german airforce bases all along the north german coast?

Supporting our naval base at Hel with your massive fleet?

Why should we have left our country open to invasion simply by throwing away our fleet in a suicide mission to the Baltic? If fighting the german navy and airforce was so simple why did YOUR fleet scarper out of the Baltic before the war started??

Landing your forces in Danzig and other coastal locations?

Why,Danzig was a GERMAN city. Why throw away British lives in a futile invasion of a city that most people knew fine well had been German until 20 years before? Just shows how clueless you are when you say things like "invade a harbour"....great grasp of strategies and tactics havnt you...........lets hope you never end up in charge of any soldiers ,theyd be dead before you finished breakfast...

Lets face it,when will Poland take responsibility for playing a huge part in causing ww2 to start with its usuall pompous attitude when it came to Danzig? Why not just give the Germans the road and rail route access between west and east prussia?
Salomon 2 | 436  
13 May 2009 /  #44
Lets face it,when will Poland take responsibility for playing a huge part in causing ww2 to start

LOL ... what a ignorant guy ... by existence of Polish nation :)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,525  
13 May 2009 /  #45
Lets face it,when will Poland take responsibility for playing a huge part in causing ww2 to start with its usuall pompous attitude when it came to Danzig?...

Another generation or two?

LOL ... what a ignorant guy ... by existence of Polish nation :)

What do you know of the disputes between Germany and Poland before the invasion?

PS: It wasn't only between Poland and Hitler, but also before between Poland and the Weimar Republic...actually since 1919!
isthatu2 4 | 2,703  
13 May 2009 /  #46
LOL ...

God,you got the irony...must admit ,that last was chucked in more in the spirit of Devils advocate :)

(still,one does wonder,would it have played for time enough for Poland to fully modernise its forces,would hitler have taken the northern route into the USSR,and ,if so,would Poland have become another Finland,allied to germany only for conveniance in the fight against Stalin?.....)
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
13 May 2009 /  #47
Isthatu2, I agree with you on most things but I don't know what you meant by Poland taking responsibility for WWII. I guess you were joking ;)

If you mean appeasement by signing the non-aggression pact, then Britain is equally guilty as Chamberlain didn't read the warning signs either.

Aha, to my knowledge, Danzig was never German before the Germans forcibly seized it. Then again, I didn't study this aspect of history much so I'm willing to be educated.
isthatu2 4 | 2,703  
13 May 2009 /  #48
isthatu2:
Lets face it,when will Poland take responsibility for playing a huge part in causing ww2 to start
LOL ... what a ignorant guy ... by existence of Polish nation :)

Aha,speaks with forked tongue and takes a line out of context,you know fine well I said with regards Danzig and the stolen german lands.....ah well,some people cant "win" through honest debate can they...got to twist and spin....
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
13 May 2009 /  #49
Like a true politician ;)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,525  
13 May 2009 /  #50
Aha, to my knowledge, Danzig was never German before the Germans forcibly seized it.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Gdansk

Famous people born in the city

Does this list look polish to you Seanus?
isthatu2 4 | 2,703  
13 May 2009 /  #51
# Günter Grass, b. 1927, wr

Die blechten wottsit,great film...sorry BB but I was chearing the Polish guys in the Post office when I saw this.....I could lie and say read this but I didnt get past the whole hiding under skirts scene when I last picked it up :)

Wasnt Danzig one of the old Teutonic strongholds? Im sure I read somewhere of british knights heading there as part of a papal approved crusade in the 12th C....
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
13 May 2009 /  #52
Well, you are probably right BB. My fiancee even agrees with you and she's a Polish patriot.
Salomon 2 | 436  
13 May 2009 /  #53
Does this list look polish to you Seanus?

Well ... do you know history of Gdańsk.



Citizens of Gdańsk ordered their coat of arms made form stone. It has been made form with few changes... Lions were looking on south (not on each other) for help from weaker and weaker Poland (they feared stronger and stronger Prussia). Gdańsk citizens ethusiasticly greated this new version of their Coat of Arms. It was before partitions.

pl.shvoong.com/books/505528-lwy-gdańskie
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,525  
13 May 2009 /  #54
Die blechten wottsit,great film

You mean "Die Blechtrommel"? :)

I wonder how many scientists and artists of world renown got the Serbs out of Kosovo to make such a ********* out of it compared to a true loss like Danzig...

Or how many famous Poles came out of Lwow to build their claims to that town for that matter!
Salomon 2 | 436  
13 May 2009 /  #55
Or how many famous Poles came out of Lwow to build their claims to that town for that matter!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Poles_by_Germany

Generalplan Ost (GPO) was a Nazi plan to ethnically cleanse the territories occupied by Germany in Eastern Europe during World War II. According to research of professor £uczak, Germans expelled the following numbers of Poles from territories annexed to the Reich in the period of 1939-1944:

It is estimated that between 1.6 and 2 million people [9] were expelled from their homes during the German occupation of Poland. Only the German organized expulsions affected directly 1,710,000 Poles.[8] Additionally, 2.5 to 3 million Poles were taken from Poland as labourers to Germany to support the Nazi war effort.[5] These numbers do not include people arrested by the Germans and sent to Nazi concentration camps




Planed localizations of Expulsions Polish citizens from anexed areas of Poland after 1939
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,525  
13 May 2009 /  #56
Some Jews planned the "Morgenthau" plan for after war Germany...it stayed that, a plan!
And Poles throwing the expulsion argument around is just a joke, isn't it?
As long as Germans ruled Poland Poles and Germans lived side by side (if not always peacefully).
Only after the Poles took control whole big territories and whole towns are now "deutsch rein"...so please don't make me laugh!

Oh and I'm still waiting for your famous people list...
isthatu2 4 | 2,703  
13 May 2009 /  #57
Dons liberal hippy hat
Wouldnt it be better to spare a moment to consider the famous ,gifted people who the world never got the chance to know thanks to the horrors and losses of the war for all nations?
Salomon 2 | 436  
13 May 2009 /  #58
Well Bratwurst, your country wanted everything and played poker. Germany wanted to expel/exterminate/enslave whole Poland ... and lost in this poker... stake was big.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,525  
13 May 2009 /  #59
Well Bratwurst, you country wanted everything and played poker

I can only give back that compliment...had Poland negotiated with Germany before there wouldn't had been a Hitler (maybe), nor a war...or if then maybe not such devastation...

But Poles were nationalistic and chauvinistic with the best of them at that time...believing they could reach Berlin in a week (it's a quote!), feeling totally safe behind british and french promises...so why talking and maybe giving something?

(That was what Isathu pointed at actually)

In the end both lost out! Better move on...
Salomon 2 | 436  
13 May 2009 /  #60
In the end both lost out! Better move on...

Agree!

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