World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World

Three times richer than the Ukraine, Sokrates? Maybe but 1/20 of your population took off to work elsewhere, mainly to the UK. What does that tell you?

Erm... that wages in UK are better than in Poland?

(just guessing)

Yes but the cost of living is much higher there too. Plus, Poles are patriots and love most things Polish. Why should they leave?

So money is a major factor for Poles, rather than enjoyment of their homeland?

Depends on how you look at it. My friend, after working for 4 years in Ireland
was able to save enough money to buy a brand new 3 bedroom apartment
in our home town. He comes back to Poland in April next year and he will
enjoy his homeland even more living in his new apartment :-)

I spent 3 years working in Ireland myself and it didn't change my feelings towards
Poland even a little bit. It's a nice experience and if money's good then why not?

Are you any less a Scottish patriot, because you live in Poland, Seanus?

Well, some Poles are shunned for moving abroad. Some see that their voting rights should be diluted for not staying 'in touch' with domestic issues.

Anyway, back to the topic. Did any of your family members fight in the war, Torq?

I assume you mean the WW2? My family members fought in the WW1 on the
Austro-Hungarian side, because our family comes from the lands of Austrian
partition (Nowy Targ, Wadowice). During the WW2 my grandfathers fought against
Germans in Polish Army - one of them in the infantry and the other in artillery.
They both survived; however, my mother's father, God bless his soul, had a severe
leg wound that bothered him for the rest of his life. My father's father, may he
rest in peace, had a true highlander's character and he hated Germans with passion :-)

Good stuff! Nothing like a bit of resistance :)

Yes, murdering civilians and sacking defensless settlements, how... Ukrainian, and then Poles come and...


Force you to retreat since the victory at Biała Cerkiew was inconclusive and apparently you dont know that you can lose a battle but win a war, it also shows how superior our military was in that even after losing the battle you were still routed :)))


Well you were dealing with a professional military, of course they were going to pursue you untill they'd destroy you, you murdered civilians you didnt expect anything else than execution afterwards surely?


Again, he oversaw the murder of civilians, naturally that he was going to be tortured and executed, is there anything wrong about capital punishment for traitors and murderers?:)))


Wait? Is it my fault that your people were stupid enough to fvck with a country that in that particular period had one of the most powerfull militaries in the world? Of course we would outgun you, outnumber you and have troops of superior quality, that only shows how much more capable in organization and development of the miltary we are to you :))))


And yet you were forced to give yourself away to Russia to avoid Polish retaliation, you didnt win freedom, wealth or liberty and Poland still took back some of its land after WW1, thats what i call a minor victory for Ukraine.

Also Nathan i think you just edited that Wiki page under battle numbers, the forces under Piławce was 30.000 Ukrainians and 25.000, not 100.000 Ukrainians and 80.000 Poles, please dont resort to lying, entire army of commonwealth was no larger than 50.000 and Ukrainians never fielded more than 70.000 men on the field and that was only once together with the Tatar force.

But if you feel you must edit wiki to suit you it must really hurt you pride that you suck so much at war :)))))))

So yes Nathan my point still stands, Ukrainians won one war against Poland (out of 9) and thats it, you won 1 war in the entire history of your people.

Poland won over 80, and not against some redneck Ukrainian peasants but against Germans, Turks, Russians, Swedes ... :)))))

I edited the page back, also Nathan if you want to read up on your history read Boris Andreychuck, he's Ukrainian and gives a pretty good account of your conflicts with Poland.

"Ukraine, which lost 2.5 million soldiers and 4.5 million civilians wasn't invited to the freaking parade."

Maybe because Ukies didn't serve under the British? Maybe because a significant percentage of Ukies fought with the Germans? Maybe because Ukies didn't field the 4th largest Allied army? Maybe because Ukies didn't fight in the battle of Britain? Maybe because.............etc.

Nathan, the Ukrainians were very brutal in Warsaw. Yes, the resident Poles were naive to believe that the Ukrainians were coming to their aid but they were even as brutal as the SS officers.

The war was not conducted extensively in Ukraine, much more in Poland. ZIMMY is right, there are just too many maybes.

What are you nice to him?
He is fascist and justifier of Wolyn massacres and ethnic cleansing as long as Poles are at the receiving end.
And he dare to complain about amount of Sh''t on this forum whereas in reality he is main contributor of BS !

Why not? He's a guest on PolishForums and we, Poles, are hosts here.
It's only fair and civilized if we're nice to foreigners. If I ever post
on UkrainianForums.com I will also expect to be treated with courtesy.


I've never noticed Nathan expressing fascist views or justifying massacres
(maybe he did so before I joined the forum - I don't know). He seems like
a sensible man, often presenting matters from biased Ukrainian point of view,
but that's understandable.

As long as guest doesn't abuse hospitality of the hosts!
And believe me he abused it many times....

You're talking about a guy who edited a wiki article about a Polish-Ukrainian battle adding three times the combatants just so he could post an impressive "proof" of Ukrainian military achievements :))))

Taking under consideration this forum, yes very much so. But how exactly is that answering my initial question about Ukrainians?


I'm pretty sure I never said that Poles single-handly saved Europe at the battle of Vienna but I would love to see you prove me wrong.

As for the "Ukrainians saved the Commonwealth at Khotyn" statement, it's good that you finally acknowledged other nationalities also. You don't have to apologize to me. Just try not to lie in the future, ok?

Oh, and you seem to be a very angry man, Nathan.


And have you ever seen anyone telling lies on a ceiling? Duuhh.... ;) .

We never asked for invitation and will never whine about not being there like you.
Where do you have an army of 2.5 million soldiers who fell in the battlefield in Allied forces?
Fighting with the Germans - only 3,281 recruits were accepted into SS Galicia even though 80,000 volunteers were there. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_Galicia_(1st_Ukrainian)


Define "much more of war was going on in Poland", please. Some links?
Ukrainians were brutal to Polish in Warsaw? You might want to read the following: warsawuprising.com/paper/rona.htm
Seanus, I am hoping to hear from you.


I don't need to rig the truth. I quoted whatever I found on Wikipedia. I usually do that since I don't have time to search in the books. If this number is wrong or any other in what I posted - pardon - but I quote whatever I see there. If you have some other source, please, supply it - I am looking forward for that.

Peasants and Cossacks in Nalyvajko Uprising in 1590s were taking cities with ease not because of their prowess or military skill - at that time they were simple people with no training of whatsoever, people who looked for freedom from mfs. They easily conquered cities because cities opened their doors to them as to saviors and only Polish stationary units were destroyed in these fights which were not considerably large (I wouldn't call it "major victories" as you do ;)). People fought with scythes, spades, forks, branches whatever they found under their hands. Notice also what cities they took into their control - Ukrainian cities with Ukrainian inhabitants, none of which was killed unless it was rich, fat, lazy, non-working mf. At Lubny you gave a promise and as always didn't keep it. You did betray then, 40 years later at Khmelnitsckij's battles, in 1921 in Riga. And you call a major victory of Poland fighting against these people. What did you say in 1648-1657?

You call people stupid fighting you with the last things they had to fight? Haha. These were PEOPLE (written with big letters) because they LIVED and knew WHAT for. Don't even dare to say anything against them, sokrates (wr. in sm. letters).


Where did I apologize to you? What lies are you talking about?

"And have you ever seen anyone telling lies on a ceiling? Duuhh.... "
You still think others were lying on the floor while Poles fought?

I asked for a link to invitation, not a book recommendation, Harry. Are you telling me that there is no British government web page that published the original invitation if only to refute the claim that Polish forces were not invited?

I was talking in advance, me friend.

As for what lies? Focus Nathan. We started our little chit-chat about you not mentioning Polish-Lithuanian forces in the battle of Khotyn, even though, as you yourself later on admitted, they sonsituted half of the army.

Does it ring a bell, Nathan?


Oi, Nathan! "Lying" means to tell lies, and not to lay on the floor. Actually I'm still confused with the lie word. Stupid language! ;)

Ukrainians in the Warsaw Uprising (some facts are quite new even to me)

Members of SS Galizien were involved in the suppression of the Warsaw uprising in autumn, 1944. They were part of the Ukrainian Self-Defence Legion (Volhynia Legion under Petro Diachenko)

Ukrainians (and Belorussians) made about 50% of so called Dirlewanger Brigade famous for their mass killings of civilians in Wola and Ochota districts of Warsaw.

209 Cossack batalion Schutzmannschaften.

More in Polish only:
jaron.salon24.pl/60552,zbrodnie-ukrainskie-w-powstaniu-warszawskim-i-ich-antypolski-pie

I thought it was some Russians there also?

At the time most cities had Polish/Jewish/Polonized Ukrainian populations, sorry to break it to you bud but most cities had to be stormed.


No Nathan, Nalevajko had with him more than 9000 former registry Cossacks and at least 6000 dismounted and sich infantry, he had 15.000 regular troops which in that period has a massive amount, he also had Czern (armed civilian component) who were indeed poorly armed but even they were better off than you sell them.


Thats an interesting outlook, murdering wealthy people is ok because they're wealthy:)


You dont keep promises to rebels.


If you didnt fight us you'd be a part of Europe today, most likely with democracy and materially better off but hey whatever rocks your boat captain 40% of Polish GDP!

Lots of them.
So called RONA - Russian National Liberation Army (Russkaya Osvoboditelnaya Narodnaya Armiya) famous for bestialities and cowardice second to none.

And of course the Red Army watching with pleasure burning Warsaw from the East side of the Vistula river.

Nonsense. What do you think they had to do?

Allow the Polish army to cross Vistula, Polish regular forces outnumberd Germans pacyfying Warsaw 3 to 1 in manpower, 4 to 1 in tanks and 9 to 1 in artillery, if Stalin would allow Poles to help their countrymen they'd squash the German forces within days.

There is no defending the Reds' failure during the Warsaw Uprising. None!!

And that Cossacks batalion was made of Ukrainians? Any link? Like RONA?
warsawuprising.com/paper/rona.htm


If they became rich illegaly and justice is in their hands, scythe helps to bring Femida back.


Promise is a promise. Poles are famous for breaking promises.


Haha. And who would you be? I am glad you are where you are. You deserve it. ;)


Give me a link to that. ;) Please, let it be in English/FrenchGerman, not in either of our languages for bias purposes.

The Jews, Polish nobles and citizens often of Ruthenian descent murdered by Cossacks were more often than not murdered simply because Cossacks were simple barbaric people not adhering to rules of war or simple civilized humanity.


I'm sorry all i can give you is Polish links (i dont speak Ukrainian) or Ukrainian historians. Cossacks were not pitchfork wielding peasants, they formed powerfull armies by any standard.

However i stand corrected i mixed Nalewajkos uprising which had at most 8.000 men with the later campaign.


We're famous for quite a few things Nathan, kiełbasa, vodka, hard work, WW2, Battle of Britain, what is Ukraine famous for?:)))


Yes we do, we deserve to be in EU and Nato, we deserve to have the strongest economy in Europe and we deserve to be a rapidly developing country with growing international leverage, and where is Ukraine today Nathan?:) Oh yeah where it was 30 or 50 years ago :)))

Hospitality, hard work, Ukrainian borshch and pyrogy, Klitschko brothers, beautiful women, Cossacks, L'vivske beer "1715" (hmm - delicious) and strong will to be free.


I am glad Poland is the strongest economy in Europe ;) and everything goes well for your country. Ukraine will be there some day as well. We have everything for it - people, resourses, will, hardwork. It takes time and some necessary political changes which are underway. But thank you for your concern, Sokrates.

Dude, most people dont even know you exist, besides whats borshch and pyrogy? I got friends in Lwów and even i dont know:)))


Who? Just because You know something it doesnt mean its internationally famous


Hopefully.

Boxers. Quite famous actually. Never heard about Lvivske beer though. I will be on the look out for it. Tried Magnat recently, and it was quite decent.