World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World

Well, they are not as famous internationally as Polish Golota, but they are doing their best ;) Klitschkos don't have skills to hit below the belt or escape from the boxing ring from Tyson at the beginning of the 2nd round like Golota.


Try it out - it's good. Tell me which one you like the best. I love trying different things.

Mentioning Gołota was actually a hit below the belt. ;)

I know. That's why Sokrates heard only of him. He likes professional escapers/runners and ball-punchers ;)

Read page 299 of the book: General Anders himself confirms that Polish servicemen were invited to the victory parade but that they declined to attend.


No there isn't. And there isn't a British government web page which denies the claim made by the Iranian government is the great Satan of the world. Perhaps the British government think that there are more important things to spend tax-payer money on. Unlike the Polish government which maintains a webpage insisting that Poles were not invited to the London victory parade or to the Moscow victory parade (a parade which Polish troops most definitely did attend and which there is photographs of them taking part in).

Victory Parade 8 June 1946

The relevant British Government files are:

HO 45/20688 (War) 1945-1946 Victory Celebrations
HO 45/20689 (War) 1945-1946 Victory Celebrations
HO 45/20690 (War) 1945-1946 Victory Celebrations
HO 326/78 .. 1946 Victory Celebrations; report on the Victory Parade 1946; miscellaneous papers
WO 32/12418 (Code 27c) 1946-1947 Victory Parade 1946
WORK 21/203 .. 1945-1946 Victory Celebrations, including report

Yes, but because those documents are not available online, to people like Bzibzioh those documents do not actually exist!

The 303 squadron was the only Polish unit invited and in the most tepid manner. It rightlfully declined its very limited invitation because the invitation was not extended to any other Polish units which were not invited.

BRITISH GOVERNMENT APOLOGISES FOR V-DAY PARADE
WITHOUT THE POLES.
A DEBT TO PARENTS REPAID

It has finally happened: the British Government has officially expressed regret for not inviting Polish Combatants for the famous V-Day parade in 1946.

polandinexile.com/vp3.htm

As has been said countless times before, Polish army and navy units were not invited because no army or navy units from any non-Commonwealth/Empire nations were invited! 303 squadron apparently felt that the free Polish army had more to win the war than both the army of the USA and that of the USSR: no units from the US Army or the Red Army were invited to take part in the parade. Anybody heard any ******** or moaning from the USA or USSR about that?


That is a lie for a start: the letter says no such thing.


Two lies for the price of one! As we (including ZIMMY) all know that Polish combatants were invited to the parade and the letter makes no apology at all for not inviting Poles. The letter actually says "We very much regret that Polish contingents did not take part in the victory parade".

Here's the pertinent portion of the letter. It gives a clearer picture of regret.

"The Polish units serving in the British Armed Forces played a distinguished and gallant part in the Second World War and it is fitting that their contribution should be remembered and honored. We very much regret that Polish contingents did not take part in the victory parade. ......

We will ensure that veterans from Polish forces that fought with the Allies will be represented in these events."

Since the above note was a response to Blair receiving a letter which included this;
“ I am writing to you today in the hope that you may be ableto correct one of the more shameful deeds of the British Government in 1945, which left a permanent scar on the reputation of Great Britain among her most loyal Allies,” . It is clear what is meant by Blair's response. Why would the British government need to "ensure" anything if there was no liability on their part?

Those who which to parse this further need only to read the following which was not refuted by the British government; "To our great dishonour, the British Labour Party acquiesced to the Soviet government demand that no Polish serivcemen serving under British command should participate in the Parade. After almost 60 years this feeling of treachery did not vanish.”

gotta go.....

Yes, it clearly shows that "he" is not mentioned anywhere in the letter and that the author was lying when he said it was.


If there was any past liability at all (which you yourself have said there isn't), why didn't they apologise for the Poles not being invited?

Oh, yes, I remember why: it's because Poles were invited.



I do wish you'd make your mind up.

I think you will agree that; "We very much regret that Polish contingents did not take part in the victory parade" is not quite the same thing as "We very much regret that Polish contingents were not invited to take part in the victory parade"?

Maybe because there was no such country as Ukraine before and after WW2, only Ukrainian SSR - a republic of the Soviet Union. Ukrainians fighting on eastern front (on allied side) were Soviet Army soldiers (4.5-7 million ethnic Ukrainians). Unlike them, Polish soldiers fought also on western front with French and British armies. I don't know if Soviets were invited to the Victory Parade in London.

The campaign in Poland had not finished yet when Polish troops abroad started to form. The government of Poland in exile that emerged in Paris adopted as its main goal the fight at the side of the Allies and creating a Polish army in France. This was the beginning of the Polskie Siły Zbrojne (PSZ - Polish Armed Forces) in the West which fought until May 1945 in three theatres of war: Western Europe (1940 and 1944-1945), North Europe (1940) and Mediterranean (North Africa in 1940-1942, Italy 1944-1945).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allies_of_World_War_II

ww2.pl/Polish,Armed,Forces,in,the,West,23.html
ddayhell.pl/index_pl.php?go=12

I believe the Blair letter and subsequent British queezy-ness and follow-up on this matter is proof enough that not enough was done to include Poles in the victory parade, indeed, it was shameful. This matter is obvious to the objective historian although not to British defenders of the indefensible.


As usual your unlimited ability to parse the real meaning only inhibits your argument. When making your illigimate point you continue to only partially quote leaving out the full meaning. That's a short-sighted tactic. Here is what I stated;

"The 303 squadron was the only Polish unit invited and in the most tepid manner. It rightlfully declined its very limited invitation because the invitation was not extended to any other Polish units which were not invited."

That certainly gives a full reading to what I stated.

I'll put it simply for you; When people are invited to a full dinner but one of the quests is offered only crumbs than that quest has a right to refuse to eat those droppings.

sjam

Like the staunch British apologist Harry you are also ignoring the full content of the letter and the subsequent 'make-up' and remedy that was involved. No remedy was needed if injustice wasn't done.

The western Command Poles received exactly the same invitation as the USA. And France. And the USSR. And Belgium. And Denmark. And Holland. And Norway. And Greece. And every other non-Commonwealth/Empire allied nation. But they had to be different, they had to be better than all other non-Commonwealth/Empire allied nations: they had to have their army and navy invited too. They were refusing to eat any droppings, they were insisting on a triple helping!


And when telling your lie, you lie.


Yes they were.

Poszeczka, if there was no Ukraine before WWll, then there was no Poland at all. Why do you have to put your innocent ignorance in every matter, on every subject? Since 1924 Ukraine was part of the Union of "independant states" (as it was written in Soviet constitution) and Ukrainians fought not for the Union only, they fought for their land where many of the biggest battles in the history occurred in 1941-44 period. If you will have a war in the EU and Poles will die in it, would it mean that no Pole was killed in the war? Have some decency and respect to those who paid by their life for giving me and you an opportunity to be here and stop whining. Make parade in Warsaw and honor the fallen the way they have to be honored and don't make out of remebrance some phantasmagory.

Those are completely different situations, Poland was by WWII a nation and a country with nearly 8 centuries of independent state and over a millenium o national existence, Ukraine formed the beginnings of statehood only shortly after WWI and people of Ukraine didnt consider themselves as a nation untill 18 century.

So no there was no Ukraine as such.

Ukraine enjoys its statehood for over a millenium now as well. Being at the crossings of Asia and Europe, it was going always through difficult times. We fought Poles, Russians, Tatars, Turks, Mongoles, Germans and managed to go through with it and independance was regained. To say things you and Porzeczka says is just to show your ignorance. I am not surprised what your historical books look like when even in the kindergarten they put racistic BS degrading respect towards other nations from the time when the milk is still wet on the lips.

No it does not, we could probably draw a link between Kievan Rus and modern Ukraine but thats a very general link since at that time there was no distinction between Russian and Ruthenian, it was all Ruthenian culture, for several centuries then Ukraine remains a province of the Commonwealth, retains no national or state institutions, no military, no nothing.

Cossacks were a multinational military class that fought for priveliges and power for themselves, not for Ukrainian liberty since they didnt perceive Ukraine as a separate national state.


We're talking about your historical books too.

Since the defeat at Irpen there was no state or national consciousness, you guys didnt exist as a country even in the perception of the local population so there's no point in creating a new history to fit your own sentiments.

You can draw a general link of our African origin, but not this, anthropologist. ;)
Of course, some argue in Ukraine right now that we should have preserved our old name - Ruthenians, but I think it is unneccessary and I like being called Ukrainian and my coutry Ukraine. Russians picked their name in 17th century, if I am not mistaken. They branched off in 13th century of the collapsed Kievan state caused by Mongols' invasion. It is history, Sokrates.

- The Ruthenians have nothing to do with Ukrainians genetically, so pls Mr. Bendera make up your mind on who you are... wait though... I know who you are.

- The term "Ruthenian" has nothing to do with the "Russian" or at least this theory is beyond the popularity


You're about to be right. Just to clarify... Before that all Eastern Slavs such as: velikorossi (aka Russians), malorossi (aka Ukrainians) and belorossi (aka Belorussian) had gone by one name - "Russians".

The origin of the ethnonym "Rus" has several versions. Here're the most plausible I think:

1) The Varangian one. Róþsmenn or Róþskarlar means "rower", "seaman" in old Icelandic. To back up the Varangian version some scientists note the word "ruotsi" which in Finnish and Estonian is "the Swede".

2) From Indo-European base "ruksa", "russe", "russa" - "white", "light", "golden" (mostly from Scandinavic people).

3) Slavic word for the color. "Rusy" - "bright", "white" etc. Somewhat of the #2 version.

Ruthenians were genetically different people, they used a completely different language and the only similarity in their culture was the orthodox religon, Ukrainians have nothing in common with old Rus.

Sorry buddy i know you guys are searching for your identity but making up history to fit your view aint gonna cut it.


These people had different language, different customs, its like claiming that Germans and the French are one nation since they used to be a country once.

Do you have to insult me? Do you think your arguments are more convincing because of that?
Whatever you say, Ukraine wasn't recognized as an independent/separate country. Look at the maps of Europe before and after WW2 (1939, 1945). Ukrainians served in the ranks of Soviet Army and Soviets, as Harry wrote, were invited to the Victory Parade. They surely fought for their homeland and I undestand that, but do you really expect separate invitation to be posted to Ukrainian SSR? You can't compare European Union to Soviet Union, please...


Your generalization is very unfair, Nathan. I doubt you've ever read any Polish historical book.


Stop whining about whining! And don't use such words as "decency" and "respect".
I'm really fed up with you :(

angelfire.com/ok2/polisharmy/chapter1.html

... After the British Government decided to switch its recognition from the Polish Government-in-exile in London to the Polish Provisional Government in Warsaw, it no longer felt obliged to invite the armed forces of the exiled Government to the victory parade that was to be held in London in 1946. Instead it asked Warsaw to send its men to attend...

Just in case you miss it:
Instead it asked Warsaw to send its men to attend...

... to give the Soviets credit, when they held their victory parade in Red Square, representatives of the 1st and 2nd Polish Armies were invited to attend and marched alongside the victorious Red Army...

... the British press took up the issue, so the British Government relented and invited a delegation from the Polish Air Force to take part. The airmen who, no doubt would have wanted to march, declined the invitation as the British had not invited the Polish Army or the Navy...

... The delegation from Warsaw never arrived. Warsaw's military attaché in London, Colonel Kuropieska, was never told why his superiors had decided not to attend....

... Even as late as 1984 and the 40th Anniversary of the D-Day landing, the Poles were not invited to take part. Although the British Government had changed its political complexion, the commemoration was turned into a strictly NATO event...

Maybe because also in 1946, British public opinion was turning against the Poles in Great Britain thanks to the socialist/labour press propaganda.

"Count Raczynski sent the following note to the FO saying that someone was printing and then distributing them in the Fife area.

ATTENTION ! ATTENTION !
Your Home and Job
demands that You
STOP POLISH INVASION NOW
--------
STAND EASY and
You've "Had it Chum"

Keep on splitting the hairs while the fact remains: where was honoring brotherhood of men? For fear of offending Soviets - England dithers. Honor before politics.


Key word of this whole issue ... Crumbs ...


So asking you for a source of info equals to denying the very existence??? I'm nonplussed. And raising your voice does not improve the merit of your argument either.

Crumbs? Poland was treated better than any other allied nation. But that wasn't good enough for Poland, it had to be 100% their terms or not at all. And when they couldn't get their own way, they decided to insult their hosts. And even now Poles lie about it. Even the Polish government lies about it. Pathetic.

Yeah, rrright. It's Polish government’s favorite pastime :)


Lets agree not to agree on that point. Remember that this snub came on top on failing Poland in September '39. It just adds up.


You are entitled to your opinion. However misguided it is.

stupid rebels didn't knew what good for them if they remained part of Polish Kingdom, Stalin would have had been petty criminal and nobody would heard about "famine" in USRR!

))


What comes to mind ? Harry!

As always Russian lie. The above-mentioned names were used since the 17th century, not before. As you can guess why - because of complex of inferiority on Russian side since they were feeling insecure living on the outskirts of Kjiv and former Kyjivska Rus'.


It is Bandera, Herodotus ;)


I am not - I am thirsty of you; I would drink juice out of you and still won't be satisfied. ;)

You're confused. You even managed to surprise since I couldn't imagine your full of that sort of crap. :) Obviously those are some of Ukrainians who experience tough complex of inferiority due to being deprived of self-directed for that long (or maybe... forever). The Eastern neighbour turned out to be far more successful on that span. :((


I know, Bendera ;)

Nope Sasha is right, though not technicaly Russians all Eastern Slavs have been known as Rusyns, there was no separate group of Belarussians, Ukrainians or Russians, as for Ukrainians your current language operates for less than 200 years, you do not posess the original Ruthenian language.


Buddy while i have no great love for Russia Moscow is swarming with skyscrapers while Kiev is to put it politely a poverty stricken hole, Russias history while inhumane and cruel is filled with great conquests and epic endavours and what conquests or achievements Ukraine has?

Furthermore you exist because of Russia, without Stalins intervention Poland would take over its former lands as soon as WW2 ended and you could do squat about it all, you have always been someone's province and nothing more.