Russia: Poland responsible for WW II

14 Jun 2009 / #211

I have no idea what exactly will happen but i can make a reasonable prognosis based on the fact that for example your country is facing an absolutely drastic decline, you will lose over 20 milion

Well...we will still be far more populous than Poland...:)

Germany would start a war anyway, the fabrication of reasons shows that that Germany was already on the edge and needed justification for an already existing mindset, Serbia was pushed to the edge by Albanians and lack of appropriate reaction of the international community.

Germany's "fabrication of reasons":

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles

Germany was compelled to yield control of its colonies, and would also lose a number of European territories.
The province of West Prussia would be ceded to the restored Poland, thereby granting it access to the Baltic Sea via the "Polish Corridor" which Prussia had annexed in the Partitions of Poland, and turning East Prussia into an exclave, separated from mainland Germany

Mean Germans! How dare they to protest!!!

Here now how Serbia was "pushed to the edge by Albanians":

...
Serbian communist leader Slobodan Milošević sought to restore pre-1974 Serbian sovereignty. Other republics, especially Slovenia and Croatia, denounced this move as a revival of great Serbian hegemonism. Milošević succeeded in reducing the autonomy of Vojvodina and of Kosovo and Metohija, but both entities retained a vote in the Yugoslav Presidency Council. The very instrument that reduced Serbian influence before was now used to increase it: in the eight member Council, Serbia could now count on four votes minimum - Serbia proper, then-loyal Montenegro, and Vojvodina and Kosovo.

As a result of these events, the ethnic Albanian miners in Kosovo organized strikes, which dovetailed into ethnic conflict between the Albanians and the non-Albanians in the province. At 87% of the population of Kosovo in the 1980s, ethnic-Albanians were the majority. ...

Poor Serbians...

Sokrates 8 | 3335

14 Jun 2009 / #212

Well...we will still be far more populous than Poland...:)

And still much worse off than Poland since you've been losing kids since the 70s, Polish negative trend is neither as long or dramatic relative to its size so while it will affect us it will absolutely devastate your economy.

As for your pretty myths for why you would like WW2 to have started we can do it in a separate topic since people will flock to the topic and it will end up where it always does, you sticking to Versailles, Poles sticking to the facts and everyone agreeing on not agreeing, whatever happened stays happened and i'm seriously going to puke if i have to discuss this particular topic.

Poor Serbians...

Lovely how it only says "dovetailed into ethnic conflict" and doesnt cover the details of what Albanians did to Serbs, of course Serbian responce was absolutely clumsy and they've shot themselves in the foot by commiting genocide but military intervention alone was fully justified.

Recently we had Solomon post some provocative shite on Switzerlands anti-German position, now imagine that the Swiss start carting off their German citizens into the woods, burning them in barns and such and tell me Germany wouldnt invade.

Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11820

14 Jun 2009 / #213

And still much worse off than Poland

"still much worse off than Poland"???
Erm...are you sharing the same reality with me here Sokrates? :)
Do you really believe Poland lives in a happy bubble?
Germany and Poland are going to be such intertwined in the coming years you better pray Germany is going to be well!

As for your pretty myths

If you call that a "pretty myth" how would you call Serbians reasoning!

you sticking to Versailles, Poles sticking to the facts

The fact that without the new borders, Germany losing 1/4 of their territory, millions placed now in new hostile countries as opressed minorities there wouldn't had been a Hitler or WWII?

That Europe would had been better off in the end without a Poland?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Versailles

Wilson's friend Edward Mandell House, present at the negotiations, wrote in his diary on 29 June 1919:

...To those who are saying that the treaty is bad and should never have been made and that it will involve Europe in infinite difficulties in its enforcement, I feel like admitting it.
But I would also say in reply that empires cannot be shattered, and new states raised upon their ruins without disturbance.
To create new boundaries is to create new troubles. The one follows the other. While I should have preferred a different peace,..

Just a myth for our smart Sokrates?

French Field Marshal Ferdinand Foch, who felt the restrictions on Germany were too lenient, declared, "This is not Peace. It is an Armistice for twenty years."[23]

But of course Sokrates knows better....

i'm seriously going to puke if i have to discuss this particular topic.

Understandable...

doesnt cover the details of what Albanians did to Serbs, of course Serbian responce was absolutely clumsy and they've shot themselves in the foot by commiting genocide but military intervention alone was fully justified.

Astounding again as you see Serbian wish for a greater Serbia at the cost of their co-yugoslavs is an acceptable reason for you but Germany's even more dramatic and drastic changes brought on them from the outside are not...

But then...what else to expect!

imagine that the Swiss start carting off their German citizens into the woods, burning them in barns and such and tell me Germany wouldnt invade.

Depends on who started what sh*it...

Seanus 15 | 19666

14 Jun 2009 / #214

Thanks for the addition, Mod. BB is German but you are right. English to reinforce the fact that the account was the same. I spotted a couple of mistakes today in translation between English and Polish and it can be costly.

Sokrates 8 | 3335

14 Jun 2009 / #215

If you call that a "pretty myth" how would you call Serbians reasoning!

I'm calling Serbs idiots, not incompetents like our former goverment, just primitive idiots, barring some exceptions their nation and their goverment wouldnt be out of place in some craphole in Africa fighting the angry ******* over who owns their god forsaken land.

However i'm saying thay military intervention, wiping out armed opposition and putting Albanians into place by aiming a tank at their house was completely justified and reasonable, what they did afterwards was not.

reason for you but Germany's even more dramatic and drastic changes are not...

If the majority of Serbs are as stupid as Crow and their policies and politics indicate so then i'm obviously not supporting them, and i'm opposed to your biased outlook, Poland fell out of German initiative, many of the "German" lands were taken by force in one period or another and as such our situation with Germany is completely incomparable to the Balkan crap.

The Poland that you cry so much over in the Versaille treaty seized to exist due to your actions so i find it extremely insolent that you quote a treaty that ressurects a country that Germany was instrumental in destroying in the first place.

Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11820

14 Jun 2009 / #216

I won't watch a video Seanie, a film or an internet board is patient...and talk is cheap.
But I would like to study their sources (preferable not from a crowish "They are all out to kill us"-website if possible)

However i'm saying thay military intervention, wiping out armed opposition and putting Albanians into place by aiming a tank at their house was completely justified and reasonable, what they did afterwards was not.

You mean a tiny minority of some few percent is justified using violence and arms to opress a majority of over 90 percent?
Is it that what you want to say?

Seanus 15 | 19666

14 Jun 2009 / #217

Well, BB, insult Germans if you wish. That's your perogative. I happened to like what they had to say. I try to be objective. There are many bad things the Serbs did too.

They brought facts, BB. Sharping brought charged BS!

Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11820

14 Jun 2009 / #218

I'm asking you about those facts!
Did they do more than just tell you that they are facts? :)
What sources did they bring?

PS: Calling Sharping a Nazi is hardly objective and also not a sign of sound research...sorry...

PPS: I can show you videos from people KNOWING that Armageddon is underway and that Jesus will come back soon...in the next ten years or so...

and of course everybody but themselves, the allknowing video maker, will die!

PPPS: Why can't Germans be lying fanatic a*ssholes too? Those wannabe terrorists now on trial in Germany who planned to kill as many innocent people as possible in the name of Allah are Germans too...

(I think they too have a video somewhere out there)

Seanus 15 | 19666

14 Jun 2009 / #219

Sharping is part of that establishment that spouts lies. Isn't it a nice coincidence that Nazi folks of his ilk were bombing Belgrade in WWII as well?

BB, the video is there for you to make your own judgement. They brought numerous sources.

Also, it doesn't depend on nationality. I happened to see those 2 Germans as credible. They were trying to counterbalance the propaganda of the NATO machine, an impossible task but at least they tried.

You know what happened in WWII in the Balkans, BB. They exterminated Serbs and gave land to the Albos. I was right beside where George W Bush gave his watch to an Albanian kid. Who was this warmonger's grandad? The Nazi funder, Prescott Bush. See a connection??

Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11820

14 Jun 2009 / #220

Sharping is part of that establishment that spouts lies. Isn't it a nice coincidence that Nazi folks of his ilk were bombing Belgrade in WWII as well?

Erm...I fail to see the connection.
Please help me out here!

They brought numerous sources.

And why can't you come up with one?
A website maybe? A book? Anything?

I happened to see those 2 Germans as credible.

Well...Crowie surely likes them too...:)

You know what happened in WWII in the Balkans, BB. They exterminated Serbs and gave land to the Albos.

Erm...we did???

See a connection??

Nope...can you get more clearer please?

Let's say what Wiki says:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkans_Campaign

In 1919, Albania's territorial integrity was confirmed at the Paris Peace Conference after United States President Woodrow Wilson dismissed a plan by the European powers to divide Albania amongst its neighbours.

On 7 April 1939, Mussolini's troops occupied Albania, overthrew Zog, and annexed the country to the Italian Empire.

The Invasion of Yugoslavia (also known as Operation 25) began on 6 April 1941 and ended with the unconditional surrender of the Royal Yugoslav Army on 17 April. The invading Axis powers (Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Hungary, and Bulgaria) occupied and deismembered the Kingdom of Yugoslavia.
By cobbling together Bosnia and Herzegovina, some parts of Croatia, and Syrmia, the "Independent State of Croatia" (Nezavisna Država Hrvatska, NDH) was created by Germany and Italy.
In Serbia and the Banat, the puppet state "Nedić's Serbia" was created by Germany. In Montenegro, a puppet "Independent State of Montenegro" was created as an Italian protectorate.
However, the "protectorate" was nominally a kingdom even though Prince Michael of Montenegro never accepted the crow

Do you mean that?

Where and when did we gave lands to the Albos???

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania

...During World War II, Albanian nationalist groups, including communist partisans, fought against the Italians and subsequently the Germans. By November 1944 they had thrown the Germans out, the only East European nation to do so without the assistance of Soviet troops. ...

Seanus 15 | 19666

14 Jun 2009 / #221

Sharping is doing the bidding of those who have never ditched their Nazi sympathies and leanings. The man, the way he looks and talks, is reminiscent of high-ranking Nazis. He got caught in his own lies by cunning Germans. Watch and learn, the video shows all.

I told you, BB. Any educated person should know that you read the same source and make judgements thereof. I've given you what I saw. No concealment or withholding of evidence on my part. Why do I insist on this approach? Well, it means that we are not pulling 'truths' and 'facts' from books writtten by those who take sides. I've provided something concrete and not a polarised account.

I don't speak for Crow. I speak for good people and those Germans are, based on that film.

Yes, the Nazis were pretty brutal in the Balkans. "We"? You are not a Nazi I presume ;)

Prescott Bush funded the Nazis and was looking for them to do some of the dirty work. Look at George Bush snr, he had no clue on the Balkans at all. They were just Nazi sympathisers.

Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11820

14 Jun 2009 / #222

You tell alot Seanie but no facts....c'mon, gimme some!

Where and when did Germany give lands to the Albos for starters?

The man, the way he looks and talks, is reminiscent of high-ranking Nazis.

Well...he isn't very pretty but you really shouldn't call him a Nazi because of that! :):):)

he got caught in his own lies by cunning Germans. Watch and learn, the video shows all.

Erm...as in "the Germans gave lands to the Albos"?
What else do they tell??? :

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania

Prescott Bush funded the Nazis

No Seanie, he didn't! :)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush

...In 2003, the Anti-Defamation League responded, saying:

" Rumors about the alleged Nazi 'ties' of the late Prescott Bush ... have circulated widely through the internet in recent years.
These charges are untenable and politically motivated. Despite some early financial dealings between Prescott Bush and a Nazi industrialist named Fritz Thyssen (who was arrested by the Nazi regime in 1938 and imprisoned during the war), Prescott Bush was neither a Nazi nor a Nazi sympathizer.[8][14]

Stop watching such crap or you start to sound like Crowie!!! :)

Seanus 15 | 19666

14 Jun 2009 / #223

guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
rense.com/general40/bushfamilyfundedhitler.htm
georgewalkerbush.net/bushfamilyfundedhitler.htm

I can get you MANY more, BB. Prescott Bush was a Nazi. BB, let's cut to the chase, why did Bush support the Albos?

The Committee expected the Government of the German Reich to recognise the independence of this united Greater Albania,

and drew his attention to the sovereignty of the new Albania, that we had desired and recognised, from
albanian.com/v4/showthread.php?t=27606

Germany united many fragments from disputed lands.

Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11820

14 Jun 2009 / #224

why did Bush support the Albos?

Why did Roosevelt fight the Nazis???

For your links (did you actually read them)?

guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

...While there is no suggestion that Prescott Bush was sympathetic to the Nazi cause, the documents reveal that the firm he worked for, Brown Brothers Harriman (BBH), acted as a US base for the German industrialist, Fritz Thyssen, who helped finance Hitler in the 1930s before falling out with him at the end of the decade.
The Guardian has seen evidence that shows Bush was the director of the New York-based Union Banking Corporation (UBC) that represented Thyssen's US interests and he continued to work for the bank after America entered the war....

And the ADL was saying....

...In 2003, the Anti-Defamation League responded, saying:

" Rumors about the alleged Nazi 'ties' of the late Prescott Bush ... have circulated widely through the internet in recent years.
These charges are untenable and politically motivated. Despite some early financial dealings between Prescott Bush and a Nazi industrialist named Fritz Thyssen (who was arrested by the Nazi regime in 1938 and imprisoned during the war), Prescott Bush was neither a Nazi nor a Nazi sympathizer.[8][14]

rense.com/general40/bushfamilyfundedhitler.htm

I really would refrain from quoting the rense site or the others if I were you Seanie!
They aren't valuable or helpful in a serious discussion...you could also directly quote from a serbian nationalist forum!

Renses's show has been noted as being among "conspiracy-oriented Internet radio shows that often feature anti-Semites and extremists" by the Anti-Defamation League, a non-profit organisation that opposes anti-semitism.[5]

You are quoting a neo-nazi site, ya know....

I can get you MANY more,

I'm sure you can. The internet is free and hence also full of nutters!

Germany united many fragments from disputed lands.

Even as Albania was the whole time occupied by the Italians???

The Committee expected the Government of the German Reich to recognise the independence of this united Greater Albania,

You mean after the Nazis had won and conquered the whole world? :)

Seanus 15 | 19666

14 Jun 2009 / #225

The Italians, LOL. They were not the force that the Nazis were and didn't call the shots there, sorry!

Roosevelt fought the Nazis because he didn't want the Nazis controlling the world, pure and simple. The NWO was not destined to be controlled by those who spoke German.

Even if I stopped quoting Rense, there'd be plenty more. BB, ties are often enough. It's like the modern day 9/11. Why would Bush come out and admit that he killed 3000 Americans? He wouldn't, would he? You need to listen to the evidence of the German intel officer (von Bulow?). He saw the 9/11 truth as others did.

Anyway, back to the thread. Poland was NEVER responsible for WWII.

Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11820

14 Jun 2009 / #226

The Italians, LOL. They were not the force that the Nazis were and didn't call the shots there, sorry!

Well..as it seems the Italians had to much influence.
And the fact stands that Albania was occupied by italian troops and the Albanians fighted their occupier.

When and where did Germany give land to Albania?

Even if I stopped quoting Rense, there'd be plenty more.

Accepted, serious ones? Very doubtful!

ties are often enough.

As your connection of the Balkan campaign in the forties to the german defense minister 60 years later you mean?
Guilty by nationality? These ties are your arguments?

When will you make the hop over the border of sanity and reason and start to bark also against the "bad false west" and the born bad "germanized" Slavs who are only out to torture the real flower of mankind, the Slavs?

Why would Bush come out and admit that he killed 3000 Americans?

Yeah...why should he?

Seanus 15 | 19666

14 Jun 2009 / #227

The Albanians remained neutral with Germany and then struck up a friendship. They helped them at times and you would've known that had you read Neuchmann's account.

Jordan Maxwell are respectable and I posted you a link from them. The ties were strong, BB. Many see it as common knowledge.

Bush was behind 9/11 and that is abundantly clear to me. This is not a 9/11 thread though.

So, BB, let me guess, you think Poland is to blame for housing Jews? You think Poland brought it on themselves?

Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11820

14 Jun 2009 / #228

The Albanians remained neutral with Germany and then struck up a friendship. They helped them at times and you would've known that had you read Neuchmann's account.

Well, as far as I know Albania fighted their occupiers in WWII and later adhered to a stalinist style of communism, even later they became much more Mao/china like....

They were pretty isolated even in the communist circles and especially in western Europe.

When did they "struck a friendship" to Germany again? And which Germany?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania#Independence_and_recent_history

...
Albania was one of the first countries occupied by the Axis Powers in World War II.[32] As Hitler began his aggressions, the Italian Fascist dictator Benito Mussolini decided to occupy Albania as a means to compete with Hitler's territorial gains...

...
Post-World War II

Albania allied with the USSR, and then broke with the USSR in 1960 over de-Stalinization. A strong political alliance with China followed, leading to several billion dollars in aid, which was curtailed after 1974.
China cut off aid in 1978 when Albania attacked its policies after the death of Chinese ruler Mao Zedong. Large-scale purges of officials occurred during the 1970s.

...
Albania's former Communists were routed in elections March 1992, amid economic collapse and social unrest. Sali Berisha was elected as the first non-Communist president since World War II. The next crisis occurred in 1997, as riots ravaged the country.
Victory by a pro-Berisha coalition in elections 3 July 2005, ended 8 years of Socialist Party rule. In 2009, Albania, along with Croatia, joined NATO.

Friendship with Germany and land from Germany when exactly????

Bush was behind 9/11 and that is abundantly clear to me.

Well...everybody is free to believe what he wants.
It stops when you call german politicians as Nazis using wild conspiracy-theories!

Seanus 15 | 19666

14 Jun 2009 / #229

Read the Neuchmann article I posted, it has all the key details.

BB, Sharping lied. What don't you understand about that? He was like a deer in headlights when shown to be a liar.

Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11820

14 Jun 2009 / #230

Read the Neuchmann article I posted, it has all the key details.

What details?
It speaks about a Nazi politician...the Nazi period was quickly over and Albanian was never either a collaborator nor an ally to Nazi Germany.

And after the war...well...no reason for friendship either. And to no time has Germany given land to Albania! Why did you lie Seanus?

BB, Sharping lied.

What exactly did he say what was a lie?

Seanus 15 | 19666

14 Jun 2009 / #231

It also states that the Albanians were very friendly towards the Germans, understood the reasons for the occupation and that they helped.

I told you the lie. The one about the concentration camp that never existed. Also about killing methods. Look at part 5 of the film for what I mean.

Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11820

14 Jun 2009 / #232

I told you the lie. The one about the concentration camp that never existed. Also about killing methods. Look at part 5 of the film for what I mean.

Well right now I think you are telling lies...stupid ones at that...fully gulping all this conspirational crap about Bushies founding the Nazis, Bushies behind 9/11, Germans out to destroy holy Serbia since the Nazis, Germans still Nazis etc...I'm losing interest as one can't discuss seriously with someone who believes in the unreasonable!

Amuse yourself Seanie
(Crowie might join you soon anyway)

Seanus 15 | 19666

14 Jun 2009 / #233

I didn't say the Bushes founded the Nazis at all. If you don't believe George W Bush knew about 9/11, you are a fool of the highest order. I didn't say the Germans were out to destroy Serbia at all. You just don't understand their history, that's all.

Here, this should help. Oh, you dislike Czechs too? BANNED in the Czech Republic. This is part 5/10 which I am watching now.

Germans still Nazis? What garbage! That couldn't be further from the truth.

PlasticPole 7 | 2641

14 Jun 2009 / #234

I didn't say the Bushes founded the Nazis at all.

Sean that is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard. Why would someone think you said Bush founded the nazis?

If you don't believe George W Bush knew about 9/11, you are a fool of the highest order.

He did not know about 9/11, Sean. The FBI were on the trail of Atta et al but they were about 100 steps behind. That doesn't mean they knew about it. It means they didn't have what was needed in place to stop it. The FBI were asking about some of the hijackers before 9/11, namely Zacarias Moussaoui, but they didn't have enough info to act because we had laws in place protecting civil liberties.

Now what does 9/11 have to do with Russia accusing Poland of being responsible for WWII?

Seanus 15 | 19666

14 Jun 2009 / #235

Look at 276 above, BB thought I said that and I didn't.

I'm not gonna argue 9/11 here. I've got much more evidence than most PF members combined on it.

Exactly, I kept trying to steer BB back onto topic. He loves his rants.

Crow 154 | 9310

14 Jun 2009 / #236

Stop watching such crap or you start to sound like Crowie!!! :)

and you are so germanized! :)

Seanus 15 | 19666

14 Jun 2009 / #237

He has no idea how it feels to have his spiritual home taken, Crow. He doesn't know how ethnic groups fight for their very survival. I have just watched that 10-part Czech documentary on Kosovo. If he can't feel for the Serbs after that, I don't know when he can. The Albanians took it over through international help. Bush rejoicing with them 2 years ago didn't help.

Still, I maintain a healthy respect for many Albos that I met.

Ogorki - | 114

14 Jun 2009 / #238

Germany surely didn't create the polish problem (we tried to solve it later though).

The Polish problem is that Germany and Russia want it :)
It will never become more compilcated than that.

Seanus 15 | 19666

14 Jun 2009 / #239

In a nutshell, well put!! They can feck off as they have big enough countries as it is.

Ironside 50 | 12383

14 Jun 2009 / #240

Hard facts BB, we have a war of cultures between us and muslims/Turks, in the future when Europe gets older and they get more agressive the issue will become burning, read up on German demographics, the most optimistic ones estimate that by 2100 there will be 50% Germans of Turkish descent, by 2050 Turks will make up between 8 and 15% of your population and eventually something will have to be done, you should know best that Turkish presence is not in Germanys best interest.

Not really there is internal thingy in our culture which is more dangerous then any outside influence.

Germany should have been wiped out and there wouldn't had been any problem .......
Your logic BB !))))