Russia: Poland responsible for WW II

Zimmy not wity, Poland blaimed!

...and here I thought you'd be proud to find out you had Polish blood.

James Michener was a popular writer with book sales of 75 million copies. Michener wrote that he did not know who his parents were or even when and where he was born. In 1983 he wrote "Poland" a novel well worth reading. One of the major themes of the book delves into the historical relationship between Poles and Germans. You might find it interesting.

Besides blaming Germany for every polish wart??? :)

Well, not for every wart. There are those pesky warts caused by Russia too.

Pick up the book by Michener. You will find it interesting and objective.

Did he tell you about the "obedient"-thingy?

Oh, just goose-step over to a bookstore and order the book. After all, you are a 'man for all seasons' aren't you?

Since you were from East Germany you should be grateful to the Polish Solidarity movement which put the first cracks into the Soviet system. These cracks expanded like spider cracks and finally helped bring that wall down. Considering the times, it was an unbelievable feat.

Doesn't sound so good so I will pass...and you shouldn't forget russian perestroika. Without Gorbatschow tanks would had rolled again...
East-Berlin wanted them, this time it was Moskau what said "Njet"! So they were busted!:)


The time was right!
Without the softening of the soviet regime and it's dissolution there wouldn't had been revolutions...

I would only remind you that Solidarnosc began in mid 1980, about 7 years before perestroika. That was the first crack.

people, people,.... i telling to you and you don`t listen

things that happened to Serbians could easely happen to Poles. Back in history, attack on Serbians always announced attack on Poles.

Let us innitiate restoration of Sarmatia Europae from Baltic to Balkan, from central Europe to the Black See. Let`s do it while it isn`t too late, while we still has some strenght

What, before zee Germans get 'ere? ;)

Only one comment : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov-Ribbentrop_Pact




Ribbentrop and Stalin at the signing of the Pact



Rendezvous. David Low's cartoon, published in the Evening Standard on 20 September 1939, shows Hitler greeting Stalin, following their joint invasion of Poland, with the words, "The scum of the earth, I believe?". To which Stalin replies, "The bloody assassin of the workers, I presume?"

Soviet and German officers meeting after the invasion of Poland

Soviet and German soldiers in Lublin

You forgot the link to the Generalplan Ost Luki...you post it usually 11 times a day, if the thread fits or not...

Russia is obviously using history to seek to humiliate a troublesome and fiercely independent neighbor. Next week we will found out that the Katyn massacre of 1940 and those 6,000 Polish soldiers committed a collective suicide.

I wonder whether distorting the facts about the Second World War may be a prelude to a battle over a land corridor through Poland to Kaliningrad?

Really disturbing development at the end “Under planned legislation, backed by Mr Medvedev, any Russian or foreigner who claims that the Soviet Union occupied Poland or the Baltic States during WW2 could face up to five years in prison.” (from telegraph.co.uk article) Scarry.

Only one comment:

The German-Polish Non-Aggression Pact an international treaty between Nazi Germany and Poland signed on January 26, 1934.

Soviet–Polish Non-Aggression Pact an international treaty of non-aggression signed in 1932 by Poland and the USSR.

Only one comment:

How often is international law breached or ignored by major powers?

mmm...that is why about 90 percents of threads on this forum are devoted to Russia.

This theory was presented and put into official military documents. Warsaw has inquired into this allegation and Russia will not comment?

Only if you are using special Russian arithmetic :)

Because Russia believes 90% of Poland belongs to her.

Russia has its own ideas about post-war Europe too...

One thing I think that must be recognized. Ever since the end of WWII, Germany has never seemed to miss an opportunity to apologize for the Holocaust and all the suffering the Nazi regime inflicted on Europe. They are so repentant, sometimes it seems that that the Germans are anti-nationalistic against themselves.

But Russia's position regarding the Soviet Union, atrocities of Stalin, holding half of Europe hostage for 50 years is either "don't blame us, that was the USSR not Russia," or it's denials, outright lies (the Baltic states happily joined us in 1941) or recriminations.

Is it too much to ask Russia to express even a fraction of the repentance Germany has?

You like to post Molotov-Ribbentrop stuff which is ok even being reminded for 1000s times at every step. I wonder how Poles see the earlier share of Czechoslovakija with Germany and planned invasion (again with our Freunden aus dem Westen) of the USSR? Or it's all lie and vicious intrigues? Just want to hear Polish interpretation of the events...

An absolutely stupid move on our part however incomparable with what Russia and Germany did, these two countries share responsibility for the world war, remember that Russia had an intention of starting WW2 (pushing westwards) Germans just beat them to it.


No, thats mainly because you make them Konstanty :))

We only took back the lands stolen from us by the Czechs when our army was busy
fighting the Soviet onslaught shortly after regaining our independence. They stabbed
us in the back then, so they shouldn't expect anything else from us in return.


Not true. Poland was repeatedly offered to join the anti-comintern pact
and each time we steadfastly refused. Only then, when Hitler realised
that he won't be able to use us against USSR he decided to destroy us
(and USSR, showing their gratitude, gave him a helping hand in doing that).

When you start to judge Poland in Zaolzie case, please notice that in this time Hitler was just another politician. The same as Chamberlain, Petain and many others. Before September 39' there wasn't any gas chambers, mass murders etc. You look at this case as we were cooperating with a murder. Hitler become a murder a little later.

Next, please notice that, we were regaining our lands, stolen land. Prime minister of Czechoslovakia at the end was asking for polish help - help after 20 years of very bad contacts between Poland and Czechoslovakia and even war for short period of time.

Gentlemen, please elaborate on the Polish-Czechoslovakia antagonisms.

ZIMMY
No, the topic is about Russia and her issues, if you want a specific discussion create a thread.

Or not.

Basically Czechoslovakia had historical claims while Poles were a majority in the region, the Czechs made a mistake at attempting to solve the issue via invasion while Poles were weakened during their conflicts with Russia that was a direct reason why Poland would later reclaim the territory via military force.

The only unfortunate part is that it was done in concert with Hitler, of course Poles were completely unaware of Hitlers full intentions so any accusations of aiding Hitler are completely moot.

Heh! :)


Double heh! :)


Another Heh! :)

Man, you Poles are such hypocrits!


If it isn't Russia then it's Germany!

[/quote]


He should make it to his signature...oh that and the link to the Generalplan Ost...and several others.
Would save him the work...


No, you won't!
Poles are always only brave, righteous and have always right...don't you know that!
They have reasons for everything and theirs are of course the good and righteous reasons and the blame lies ALWAYS with either the Russians or the Germans (often both together)...that's all you need to know (and what you will ever get to hear).


Why should they?
What would they get for any repentance from Poland?
Will the accusations stop? Will the blackmailing and abusing and guilt feelings for political gains stop?
I doubt it.
A good advise for Russians from a German..don't repent anything..Poles just don't appreciate it!
(They might even suspect sinister motives of you when you do it)

That's coming from a man who claims that EU is in crisis because of Poland
(or all the new member states), uses the treaty of Versailles to somehow
justify the deeds of Germans during the WW2 and in a lovely addition to
all this, in a moment of honesty, confessed that he would have voted for
Hitler in 1933 :)

I have lost all hope to understand you, BB.


I wouldn't say always, but most of the time - YES. The fact that we are so
brave, righteous and honourable is like a thorn in the eye of our neighbours.
Our righteousness is a sting of remorse for them when they look at themselves.

You forgot to make a crazy smiley after that sarcastic post...
What are you anyhow? Hungarian or Pole?

No, it wasn't that sarcastic when I think about it. I mean, we're not angels
but compared to some of our dear neighbours we're not far from it :)


I'm Polish through and through (with a couple of distant, incidental Austrian
and Spanish ancestors :)). I'm using the Hungarian crest as my avatar because
I have a lot of admiration and respect for our Hungarian friends and besides
I'm learning Hungarian so the avatar serves as a motivational reminder, telling
me to get my finger out and learn some new words today, instead of posting
too much on PF :)