Should Germany claim to be the victims in Poland?

WHAT?
You catched me???
Did I miss something???

So you admit to taking pride in things you yourself have not actually done yourself.


How many people were criminalised?
Unanswerable question.

Lukasz...
i never said anything different. we learnt this fact in school every year... no dispute here ;-)

Everybody does!
Don't tell me you are not proud of your people and the achievements of your ancestors.
It's part of your heritage.

no no you havent missed anything ... just talk :)

Speak for yourself.


They are things I appreciate, maybe even respect.
If I want to take pride, it is in what I have done.


My heritage. Is that my family? My town? My country? My continent? People of a similar profession to myself or political persuasion? All of humanity?

Okay...it's your call!
You can take pride in (or not) whatever you want...you asked me about MY definition and I feel a strong bond with my ancestors, that's all!

(You don't have to feel the same)

"Internationalists" often say they don't believe in patriotism, nationalism, heritage or such...it's their problem, not mine!

Yes, and thankyou for clarifying your position.

thats what I wanted to hear.. :)

hitler might have did good for germany, then.. but now this generation still has
to defend those good.. was it worth it?? thats the question germany should be
asking those who knew.. was it?

Your nation may be good to you or not. I love my country for all that is good about it and despite its problems. Does that make me nationalist? Or does this word have something to do with the people who make up that nation?

Patriotism - ah, now is that a blind sense of duty to the powers that be?

Heritage - something entirely different. As I have said before, the people, events, achievements of the past are there to be appreciated, respected and are there to be built upon.

But if I were to be proud of how well my neighbour did his car up or how my brother plays bass guitar, I'm stealing something of someone else's.

Living in those times when you had to decide what would you choose?

very well said indeed.
agree!

What do you agree with falkster?

You give a rat's ass about your people, about your history!

I've read your shameless rantings about the center...if a Pole reacts that way it's their right
and understandable (nobody wants to have finger pointed at their misgivings) but YOU wanting to deny all these millions of murdered, suffering Germans their voice, a tiny museum, now after more then 60 years is a low point at self hate!

You better stay internationalist there in England!

Oh and for your clarification: People like YOU are a minority not the other way around!

And???

This center is not about Hitler...for that there are already others....

wrong. read instead to bark...


okay... and as "good" germans we have to agree with everything OUR country (gov or other institution (ie authority)) does?
people with THAT mindset, not reflecting or questioning, people like YOU, where the ones that made hitler and the third reich possible in the first place... congratulation! THIS is something you can be very proud of...


no other plans at the moment...

I just think if it will be noticable in this center how Germans got this houses ... they were expeled form ... if you go back to first page you will see ... they were just sended home ... on other side of Odra(Oder) there is Germans home land ... you were expeling Poles form this lands by whole XIX century.

If only the great Fuhrer had a suicide hotline he could have rang in his time of need.

to get the heck out of dodge,, if it meant my familys life threatened,, and there was
a way to leave .

I think people (those) who choose to turn their cheek and not see probably
realized how crazy he was.. he tried to isolate Germany from the world While
trying to take over Europe and he knocked on US doors, but we came knockin
back... I know this isnt something you dont know.. but my perception of it makes
me wonder the above Post about why they wish for the Reich when the results are
clear,, no criminals because they were gassed along with the other millions of good
people.. Jews /Poles/French/ etc.. mostly jews..

Crap!
What riled me was that you tried to sell the center as a neglected obsession by a tiny minority with you of course being the accepted voice! (From England no less)

Everybody has an ********** opinion. Nobody HAS to do what the gov wants.
But I'm very much in favour of that center and I have many people with me and it WILL be build, the decision already fallen!

and who live in the past ... GERMAN gov support this project ...

might be. but the controversy about it shows clearly that not everybody in germany agrees with it... and more importantly that it is not representative for a general change in german politics or our dealing with our past...

Thank God for that.

BTW I told you that he is going to prove everything ...

No Pat...
Being a father of a family living in political insecurity and daily turmoil and with no work, your money worthless, hungry and hopeless...
Germany was already isolated through the Treaty of Versailles (no membership allowed in the League of Nation, no foreign assets, occupied Rhineland, Alsace, Sudetenland, Austria...etc.)

There lived around 800.000 Jews in the whole of Germany, less than 1 percent so most Germans never ever met a Jew.
The Gassing wasn't even planned yet.

Put yourself into the shoes of an ordinary family father which get's now the prospect of a for him better life.
I doubt you would think in the first place of leaving....


What am I proving?

You know Luki...you are trying my patience!
IF you have to say something SAY IT!!!

Bratwurst just continue your speach ...

you know the thing with governments...
are you egreeing with everything your gov in poland does? no matter which party just is in it? highly unlikely.

in germany at this moment we have a coalition of the two biggest parties which is the worst and weakest coalition possible as there are no strong parties to oppose. our chancellor is from the conservatives so now wonder that some people in the gov think positive about the centre.

does the majority of the people? no.

That might be of interest for you (there far away in England):

"Die Flucht" erfolgreichster ARD-Film seit 10 Jahren
Insgesamt 13,55 Millionen Zuschauer sahen im Ersten und bei Arte den ersten Teil des Geschichts-Dramas. Für die beiden Sender ist der Zweiteiler ein voller Erfolg.

welt.de/fernsehen/article746537/Die_Flucht_erfolgreichster_ARD-Film_seit_10_Jahren.html

Germans are VERY interested in that chapter of our history!
Another sign how important that center will be....

The first time this theme was made the center of a movie and more then 13 Million people saw it!
Making it the most successfull production in 10 years!

"Just some backward thinking people are interested"...my ass....you have so no idea!

I dont agree with everything my gov does ... but when German gov starts to support such ideas I have red light in my head ...

Probably not,, but they now suffer the consequences of a nation gone.

that would be a hard choice.. especially if children are already in the picture and
a family life.. of course with each great leader ( so we think) comes lies, deciet,
and of course payment for his actions.. same as how bush is doing us now. only
hes giving money away .. im not proud of him.. but I am of America,, and what we
stand for.. so I guess me and you are kinda the same there brat.. right :)

the leaders screw the nation and the people have to pay for it..
least those who are good. :)