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Jewish love towards Poles


omniba  
7 Jan 2008 /  #91
Hardly,all Jews liviGermany of Polish desent were forcibly deported to that ,now better not call it a concentration camp,but that camp just over the pre war Polish border.

What do you mean?
isthatu 3 | 1,164  
7 Jan 2008 /  #92
Exactly what I said,the Nazis deported all Jews of Polish descent living in Germany to Poland.They were put on trains,delivered to the Polish Border ,crossed into Poland then into Camps set up in Poland by Poles where they were detained until a relative could vouch for them. Its hardly a secret .It happened just after Herschel Gryszpan shot the Nazi embasy worker.
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
7 Jan 2008 /  #93
lol,you,the native christain Poles were a minority to the Polish jews...

in some towns in eastern Poland

No,russian laws,happily carried out by Poles

oh yes especialy those who sended us to Siberia, jews were very lucky that they could go to USA

isthatu

you knowlage in this issue is miserable, maybe you should listen discussion between Kaliszer (jew) and Dariusz and partly me, becuase when Kaliszer says that Jews were living form centuries in Poland they were Nation with their language and culture and we say so and both of us dont see anyhing wrong in it ... so maybe you are wrong with your statements about religous groups .

Exactly what I said,the Nazis deported all Jews of Polish descent living in Germany to Poland.They were put on trains,delivered to the Polish Border ,crossed into Poland then into Camps set up in Poland by Poles where they were detained until a relative could vouch for them. Its hardly a secret .It happened just after Herschel Gryszpan shot the Nazi embasy worker.

form this moment you dont exist in this discussion (for me)

BTW read it and instead of muslim read jew.
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
7 Jan 2008 /  #94
Im an anti semite,dont make me pee my pants with laughter....

You go ahead and pee in your pants for whatever reason you choose. Your own words clearly point to your thinly veiled anti-semitism.

The largest European Jewish population before WW2 lived in Poland. According to you, they flocked there from the West which (again, according to you) was more favorable to Jews than Poland, where (according to you) blatant and cruel discrimination awaited them. What's more, Jews were stupid enough to have been doing it consistently for hundreds of years, generation after generation.

You obviously don't hold Jews in high esteem, but suggest that they were utter fools, for who else but a fool would trade a place in (Western) heaven for Polish "hell".
Red Sara - | 4  
8 Jan 2008 /  #95
maybe Germans will do sth in this case Bratwurst noriced some processes in German society ...

Germans will do it again. This time they will build concentration camps on German, UK, Frech soil but we have to wait about 20-30 years to see it.

Polish people are divided and the other side maintain that this time we will see white exiles I hope that muslims in pursuit will not come here as Germans did.

When I think about my origin I'm glad I live in Poland ^ ^.
OP southern 75 | 7,096  
8 Jan 2008 /  #96
The numbers matter.Poland sheletered 3 million Jews for centuries.GB had only 50 thousand and these only in 19th century who became 150 thousand in the 20th century.
lukkija 1 | 10  
8 Jan 2008 /  #97
That's something that's interesting to me. I'd like to know more about customs and traditions that Poles and Jews have in common. I know we both drink Borscht but we spell it differently. We also eat potato pirogen. How about gefilte fish - carp stuffed with chopped fish - Do Poles eat that too? Stuffed cabbage (with chopped meat and rice)? Braided bread (called challah in hebrew-yiddish)?

Well there's much more in common that you may suspect :)
I wouldnt say gefilte fish is something very popular back in Poland but as far as i know: stuffed cabbage-golabki, sweet challah-chalka, chopped leaver,salted herring, bajgle-obwazanki (?),sufganiyot-paczki,struddle-strudel,czulent-ciulim (polish ciulim contains pork)and many more,indeed.

Btw I miss all that gorgeous home made stuff...
isthatu 3 | 1,164  
8 Jan 2008 /  #98
becuase when Kaliszer says that Jews were living form centuries in Poland they were Nation with their language and culture and we say so and both of us dont see anyhing wrong in it ..

yes,where as for 350 they havnt HAD to live in isolated communities speaking their own language in Britain......

form this moment you dont exist in this discussion (for me)

Why,does the truth trouble you so much.......

You go ahead and pee in your pants for whatever reason you choose. Your own words clearly point to your thinly veiled anti-semitism.

OMG,really,what have you been smoking? How utterly stupid you make yourself look with this statement......

You obviously don't hold Jews in high esteem, but suggest that they were utter fools, for who else but a fool would trade a place in (Western) heaven for Polish "hell".

yep,you really are clueless arnt you buddy.....I think you'll find its more a Polish trait to blame victims....Where did I say that Jews from western europe flocked to Poland in the 20th century? Quite the opposite in fact,I stated the fact that for a hundred years at least before WW2 Jews were flocking to leave the east,as you jolly well know.Kaliszer has answered the other point you make,that many stayed because they were rooted to the land through inertia or family ties etc....please dont try to disguise your countries almost in built bigotry to anyone non "Polish" by trying to claim that someone with half a family of Jews is an anti semite,you muppet.

[quote=southern] The numbers matter.Poland sheletered 3 million Jews for centuries.

Its funny how your "noble Poland " when it suits you,anything where it doesnt and its all "we were occupied,Poland didnt exist"...... [/quote]
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
8 Jan 2008 /  #99
OMG,really,what have you been smoking? How utterly stupid you make yourself look with this statement......

With constant outbursts of laughter (as you so often begin or end your posts), and your declared uncontrollable urinating at the sight of PF posts you should find it comforting that we all understand. You might want to see a doctor one of these days though.

I think you'll find its more a Polish trait to blame victims..

Poland lost 6.5 million citizens during WW2.
3 million of them were Polish Jews, 3.5 million were non-Jewish Poles.

Do really Poles blame themselves for being decimated during WW2? Do they blame Jews for being decimated by Germans?

Where did I say that Jews from western europe flocked to Poland in the 20th century? Quite the opposite in fact,I stated the fact that for a hundred years at least before WW2 Jews were flocking to leave the east,as you jolly well know.

Of course you wouldn't say that Jews were flocking to Poland. According to you they were always leaving Poland. Not a single Jew ever came to Poland though.

Do you even have a concept of your absurd approach to all this?

As a matter of fact Jews started leaving due to the more and more obvious future they faced in the light of Nazi Germany right next door. Besides, they really didn't have too many places to go to, did they. All the "champions" of democracy and freedom let symbolic numbers of Jews in. UK certainly was not at the forefront of saving Jews during, and shortly before WW2. It was known for its anti-semitism.

Most Jews in Poland were there because either themselves, or their ancestors were persecuted in countries such as Spain, France, Germany and UK. And these are facts. You never address them or respond to them.

please dont try to disguise your countries almost in built bigotry to anyone non "Polish" by trying to claim that someone with half a family of Jews is an anti semite

Stranger things have happened. My friend's husband is Irish, she is a Jew and she laughs at him for being more zionist than any Jew she ever met, and surely, she has met a few.

The moment you use words such as "in built bigotry" (grammatically correct should be built in, though) then you expose your own. Your hatred towards Poles does appear uncontrollable, so while it is possible to have a semblance of a civilized conversation with Kaliszer, you are certainly not a partner for discussion.

I cited historical facts. You did not address a single one of them. You continue describing you outbursts of laughter and bladder problems, but you never address the topic with honesty and integrity, so don't bring Kaliszer into this. You don't come even close to his ability to present an argument. Hatred blinds you, so you project your own faults on others - you blame the victims.
OP southern 75 | 7,096  
8 Jan 2008 /  #100
I only wonder what would have happened if 3 million Jews were living in UK instead of Poland.How would Germans avoid the temptation.
omniba  
8 Jan 2008 /  #101
Its funny how your "noble Poland " when it suits you,anything where it doesnt and its all "we were occupied,Poland didnt exist"......

[/quote]

Well there you are, then! You've just found a Jewish/Polish common denominator at last: both groups hide behind excuses!
kaliszer - | 99  
8 Jan 2008 /  #102
You've just found a Jewish/Polish common denominator at last

There is a much more relevant common denominator: Both groups lost sovereignty at the hands of larger world powers. Jews in Roman times and Poland in the partitions and then again in the molotov-ribbentrop pact.

One result is that both groups have a festering feeling of being victims. (The feeling is justified -- even paranoids can have real enemies). And both groups spent a good part of their history dreaming of righting the wrong. Look at their national anthems, "Poland is not yet Lost", "Our hope is not yet Lost"(part of Hatikva anthem).

With so much in common, why is there so little understanding? Put two people with a victim complex in one room (ie one country) and they'll soon start arguing over who got more screwed.

The argument is pointless, but hard to let go of.
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
8 Jan 2008 /  #103
With so much in common, why is there so little understanding?

Because on both sides we have too few people like you. People who see, understand and focus on parallels rather than differences.
Roko - | 13  
8 Jan 2008 /  #104
There is hope for civilizated conclusion of this discussion.
omniba  
8 Jan 2008 /  #105
Perhaps we should take this rather differently: there is hope now for a civilized beginning to this discussion!
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163  
8 Jan 2008 /  #106
It happened

What the hell... ? Most of countries (including USA) in that time didn't let German Jews cross their borders and for Poland that's a bad thing that they weren't treated like royalites ?

Ok,Ive met some really awfull,bigoted slimey rascist Poles(and I dont just mean G')

WTF ?? You want to have your stupid ass kicked you damn ****** ??

With so much in common, why is there so little understanding?

Most of Jews coming here (including you) come here and begins with "Why Poles are so antisemitic" or something similar and you dare ask such questions ?

And about "Polish antisemitism"... Well, let's say that we don't like you but so does most of the world, so what's a big deal ?
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
8 Jan 2008 /  #107
we don't like you

you dont like them. not we.

isthatu

it is not about your origin because it doesnt matter, we discusse social processes in our society. After 600 years still 10% of Polish tatars claims that they are more Tatars than Poles, even they could marry Christians got nobility and land centuries ago. WE were and are equal.

Assimilation of distinct nations isn't so easy as some can think. Article I posted (about muslims in UK) shows that even there is hard to find more open society that Brits you have some problems and part of your society dont accept changes there. Why Jews came to Poland ? because they were not accepted in other countries and didnt want to assimilate, it wasnt love to new country just calculation or reallity we have to live here. In first centuries they called Poland Jewish Paradise so it was rather tolerant country. Maybe some tensions occured because of status Polish nobels gave jews, they were sth between nobels and peasnats and they some times were used to "donkey work" (taxes) by our nobels. That is why when peasnats wanted to change the law they atacked nobes and jews. The other case is that number of Jews and their strong attachment to their culture and language provoked some tensions. Look on situation in UK it will not change soon, now you will recoginze what means mulitcultural society. There are black people like Grzegorz and white poeple with open mind and advertnently. Now you will see what doesnt mean multicultural society in reallity, and maybe it will stop some accusations, because it is hard work. I generaly support idea of open society but I m against what we can see in western europe. What is more I think that so many articles about Polish emigrants in Brits press is the result of fact that it is imposible to critisize more distinct non-european imigrants.

Maybe I will back to history, not all Jews were living in gettos some were living in country and some in Polish parts of town. Sitation changed many times but XIX century is really bad example because Poles couldnt build their houses in German part of our country ... so we werent responsible for this law. Russians didnt carre about our opinion as well.
omniba  
8 Jan 2008 /  #108
I see I spoke too soon.

And about "Polish antisemitism"... Well, let's say that we don't like you but so does most of the world, so what's a big deal ?

Have you been authorized to speak for all Poles - was this some sort of plebiscite?
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
8 Jan 2008 /  #109
Maybe some tensions occured because of status Polish nobels gave jews, they were sth between nobels and peasnats and they some times were used to "donkey work" (taxes) by our nobels. That is why when peasnats wanted to change the law they atacked nobes and jews.

That is a good point. The Statute of Kalisz, issued in the 13th century and subsequently reaffirmed a number of times, gave some Jews, and under some circumstances, all Jews more rights than a Polish peasant could hope for.

Imagine if that was a case with Poles in Britain...
Oh wait! Poles don't have the same rights as Brits and yet anti-Polish sentiment is not hard to find in the UK.
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
8 Jan 2008 /  #110
The Statute of Kalisz

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Kalisz

"The General Charter of Jewish Liberties known as the Statute of Kalisz was issued by the Duke of Greater Poland Boleslaus the Pious on September 8, 1264 in Kalisz. The statute served as the basis for the legal position of Jews in Poland and led to creation of the Yiddish-speaking autonomous Jewish nation until 1795 ."
omniba  
8 Jan 2008 /  #111
The Statute of Kalisz does indeed provide the foundations for unrest and resentment on the part of the Poles.
isthatu 3 | 1,164  
8 Jan 2008 /  #112
According to you they were always leaving Poland. Not a single Jew ever came to Poland though.

Not at all,I have agreed that the Spannish Jews and many others went to Poland when they were persecuted in those lands,Hundreds of years ago.

As a matter of fact Jews started leaving due to the more and more obvious future they faced in the light of Nazi Germany right next door.

Yes,but why were they leaving for the 60 odd years prior to the rise of the nazis?

All the "champions" of democracy and freedom let symbolic numbers of Jews in. UK certainly was not at the forefront of saving Jews during, and shortly before WW2.

Yes,and in my earlier posts I have pointed out that the UK has been ashamed of that stance since about 1941/42 when the world fully realised the fate of europes jews...but,i think you will find the main reason was not due to their Jewishness but to thier German /Austrian nationality.

Most Jews in Poland were there because either themselves, or their ancestors were persecuted in countries such as Spain, France, Germany and UK. And these are facts. You never address them or respond to them.

Nuts,I have posted a couple of times already in this thread about the fact that the Jews were kicked out of Britain in the middle ages.....

The moment you use words such as "in built bigotry" (grammatically correct should be built in, though) then you expose your own. Your hatred towards Poles does appear uncontrollable, so while it is possible to have a semblance of a civilized conversation with Kaliszer, you are certainly not a partner for discussion.

Well,Ive just realised you really are a pathetic excuse for whatever....Dont have the temerity to lecture me about grammer! and Lol,yes,of course,I have a hatred to Poles....tosser,no,as far as "hatred" goes,it would just be yourself and a few numpties on this forum.Not that I waste time on petty things like hate.

I only wonder what would have happened if 3 million Jews were living in UK instead of Poland.How would Germans avoid the temptation.

Eh? wdf?avoid temptation of what exactly?trying and failing to invade?

What the hell... ? Most of countries (including USA) in that time didn't let German Jews cross their borders and for Poland that's a bad thing that they weren't treated like royalites ?

Nope,just "we" tend to admit the fact while you guys just bang on about it "only being the nazis" blah blah...

isthatu wrote:
Ok,Ive met some really awfull,bigoted slimey rascist Poles(and I dont just mean G')

WTF ?? You want to have your stupid ass kicked you damn ****** ??

really,what needs said,a bigot and violant with it...what u going to do,set your big gay dog on me?

Assimilation of distinct nations isn't so easy as some can think .......

.
Thanks lukasz,really interesting post and gives a lot to think about.

Imagine if that was a case with Poles in Britain...
Oh wait! Poles don't have the same rights as Brits and yet anti-Polish sentiment is not hard to find in the UK.

What are you babbling on about?Dont have the same rights,Of course they do......flump.
Again,Sorry lukasz for getting a bit techy with you,my bad.
Darius,dude,you lost it......
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
8 Jan 2008 /  #113
Historically, the Khazar Jews lived in relative peace in Poland...going back 300-400 years or so, they were actually in relatively priviledged positions, as they worked for what remained of the Polish nobility, the large landowners or landed-classes...in this situation, they often had the role of tax-collectors and became middle-men/merchants in matters of commerce...they also were heavily involved in production of liquor/spirits...because of their peculiar positon in these regards, and because they has a higher income level than the Polish peasant, there were inevitable conflicts/jealosies...at various points, Polish 'co-operatives' were set up to counter this Jewish domination of trade...Also, the Jews, in a religious sense, because of the teachings of the Talmud, always maintained an attitude of 'seperation' and a feeling of superiority from the Polish 'goyim', as this teaching was given to them by thier rabbis...this is the basis of the Jewish attitute of 'a nation-within-a-

nation'...despite this, there was no open warfare between the Poles & the Jews, and in many cases there was a certain integration of the two communities on various levels...the trouble really started with the 'Pale of Settlement' in Russia, which the Jews felt limited their talents, freedom & aspirations...although this 'Pale' was an area as large in size as most of Western Europe, the Khazar Jews felt it wasn't enough: they wanted

opportunity for control in the whole of Russia...this conflict was the precurssor to the Jewish-Bolshevik Revolution, also know as Communism, which overthrew the Romanovs,

and established a Jewish led tyranny that claimed the lives of an estimated 10-20 million
Russians & Ukranians...the Bolsheviks (Red Army) attempted to overun the newly independent Poland (post WWI), to link up with their Jewish brethren in Germany, who were formenting a communist revolution...Pulsudski stopped them in 1920 at Warsaw and prevented the link-up...then we had 20 years of uneasy peace, before Hitler & Stalin

carved up Poland...Hitler arose as a reaction to the Jewish domination of German finance,
bureaucracy and the press...Stalin arose partially as a 'Russian' reaction to the Jewish Bolsheviks, but he used the same as 'point men' in treachery...when Stalin invaded Poland in 1939, NKVD & Polish Jews were very active in crimes against the Poles...and, in a historical irony, many Nazis, including 'der Furher' were at least partially of Jewish descent...the average Pole & Polish Jew was caught in a vice between these demonic forces...as is usually the case, whenever different nationalities co-exist under the same roof, so to speak, you will have difficulties, but also fellowship...Jews must recognize the reality of their role in the great 20th century slaughter, both as perpetrator & victim...Poles must learn from history and try to prevent their nation from becoming a charnel house for outside demonic forces.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163  
8 Jan 2008 /  #114
Nope,just "we" tend to admit the fact while you guys just bang on about it "only being the nazis" blah blah...

What the hell are you talking about ? Do you think that a country (one on another) should take all the people who have problems in their countries ? Is UK going to take half of Africa ? And in this case If Poland was anyway better than most of other countries then why the hell do you mention It like "Look what sh*t you did" ??

really,what needs said,a bigot and violant with it...what u going to do,set your big gay dog on me?

Go hug a tree.
isthatu 3 | 1,164  
8 Jan 2008 /  #115
Go hug a tree.

no,its raining,i'll get wet..
go walk into the vistula.....
Ozi Dan 26 | 569  
8 Jan 2008 /  #116
it is not about your origin because it doesnt matter, we discusse social processes in our society. After 600 years still 10% of Polish tatars claims that they are more Tatars than Poles, even they could marry Christians got nobility and land centuries ago. WE were and are equal.

Excellent point on tatars and assimilation. Although I'm no expert on tatar/polish relations, didnt the two get on quite well relative to poles/jews?

please dont try to disguise your countries almost in built bigotry to anyone non "Polish" by trying to claim that someone with half a family of Jews is an anti semite,you muppet.

Why are you saying these and other similar things mate? You're starting to sound like a Big Larry/Ned - remember him?
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
8 Jan 2008 /  #117
didnt the two get on quite well relative to poles/jews?

Maybe I will show it in this way : Grzegorz consider them decent people ;) Maybe in the result of changing broders and our history number of Tatars isnt to big but they exist they have their society and traditions.
isthatu 3 | 1,164  
8 Jan 2008 /  #118
Why are you saying these and other similar things mate? You're starting to sound like a Big Larry/Ned - remember him?

AAARRGGHHH,I hope not:) But,I wont be hushed up or accused of anti semitism when that is plainly BS,as Im sure you can understand.
Ozi Dan 26 | 569  
8 Jan 2008 /  #119
I understand that and agree, but that wasnt my point - there's no need to say bad generalised things about Poland please. Thanks.
isthatu 3 | 1,164  
8 Jan 2008 /  #120
there's no need to say bad generalised things about Poland please. Thanks.

why not,Im just fitting in round here,so its fine for Poles to spout the same about just about every non Pole but when the shoes on the other foot. BTW, Generelized,have you been to Poland lately with "people of colour"? I think the rose tints may slip a little if you and when you do.

Look,there are enough chauvanist Poles on this forum to paint the rosey pictures,what seems to be lacking is much honesty about the negative sides, I state plainly in my opening posts on this thread that the UK hasnt always been the paragon of virtue and then get accused of covering up those very same bad sides I had highlighted.

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