Polish Anti-semitism - origins?

This one:

- Why?

If one was neutral towards Jews, one might say, "I welcome the Jewish tourist to spend his money, but I might not interact with them"

If one was positive about them, one might say "I welcome the Jewish tourist in Poland, I would do my best to make him feel welcome and would hope he recommends to his brethren that they too should come"

By stating "I really wish we had no diplomatic or any other ties with Israel; I wish no Jews visited us" it appears you are negative towards the Jews. Unless of course, you can show me a positive side to this statement.

I have never had any reason to hate Poland or Polish people.


No, actually they were Christian Polish people. The Jewish people I am referring to never found any Jews.


I am sorry you feel this way. Sad to say, not many Jews I know really wish to visit Poland. Many of them have a very hard time even visiting Auschwitz. However, I think it would be discouraging tourism if all Polish people felt the way you do, which in these economic times might be desirable to encourage tourists to visit.

- Oh boy. The usual stuff when talking to you guys - grabbing sentences out of context, etc., right? The usual primitive tricks. I don't have time for this bullshit, so -goodbye.

Please put it in context for us before you go. Oh, and this too:

- OK, I'll put it in context for you before I leave. :)

Here it is: I wish we had no diplomatic or other ties with Israel, I wish no Jews visited us, if the Israelis and Jewish visitors should act in an abusive, Polonophobic, racist and slanderous manner towards the Poles while visiting Poland.

That's what I meant and still mean, and what should be apparent in my post - that is, apparent for anyone who is able to read and understand written text.

Tricks? Huh? I don't play tricks so please don't imply that I do; you don't know me. It sounded like you didn't want Jews to visit Poland. But I guess after you explained it, I get the impression that it "seems" as if you don't want "racist, abusive" people visiting Poland. You mean like skinheads, or that ilk? Trying to understand here. No Jews that I know hate Poland. Where did you meet Jews who do? Have you spoken personally to them? Or are you believing news reports?

And another thing - I am not a guy. ;)

With respect isn't this part of the problem?

You have heard stories but not actually witnessed anything .........Jews have heard stories about Poles so they remove Star of David symbols .......myths are created from stories heard on both sides and the small number of these incidents become accepted as being behaviour and attitudes applied to all.

Everyone who don't know or forget, definition of internet troll is here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

Just please don't feed him, it is the only way (if you are not an admin).
Conversation is pointless.

Not so many Jewish people here, only us who think that we are the experts on subject called "the Jews".

Hope you haven't been horrified. :)

I'm jewish. But I don't have much to say about this discussion. Puzzler is in the way.

By the way, Seanus, you mentioned a conflict between the "judaists and the zionists". I've been a jew for a pretty long time and I haven't heard of that. Care to give some detail?

- I'm glad to hear that; it seemed to me you pulled my sentence out of context in order to manipulate it. I've met many people, including Jews, who did that.


- That's exactly it - I don't want Polonophobes, of any nationality, who repeatedly exhibit strong incurable Polonophobia (= hatred of Poles), to visit my country. I don't mind if other nations, including Jews, think exactly the same in regard to those who exhibit strong incurable hatred of those nations. I cannot imagine an Israeli person wanting incurable Jewphobes to visit Israel. On the other hand, of course, I don't mind if people who are mutually prejudiced, but willing to communicate with each other, visit and communicate with each other in order to overcome mutual prejudice.


- In North America and in Europe. I suspect you know what general phenomenon I'm referring to, don't you? If you do, then you should talk honestly with me. If you don't talk honestly with me, our exchange will be pointless. Oh, and sorry for assuming you are a man, and therefore talking with you the way I usually do with men, including stronger vocabulary. Forgive me.


- I've heard stories, and also witnessed some things.


- True, in my experience, definitely it's been the case quite frequently.


- Actually, 'conversation is pointless' with brainless, shameless, obsequious, bereft of any knowledge, bereft of any honour, mentally inbalanced Polonophobes like you. Besides, if you want to converse in a language, learn the language first. Your 'English' is atrocious.


-And here comes another ingratiating shameless Polonophobe without any honour and self-respect. Yes, there is a bit - just a bit - of grotesque prostitute scum like you two (jwojcie and lebowski) in Poland.

:)

Even in the last Gaza crisis, yehudi, there were anti-Zionist marches in America which were conducted by Judaists (Rabbis). There are fight videos on Youtube if you care to have a look.

associatedcontent.com/article/844663/why_usa_should_reject_the_zionists_pg3.html

The Zionists have a political agenda whereas the Judaists keep the faith alive.

ROFL? I really have problem with taking you seriously. But the good thing is that I laugh the s*it out of myself reading you. :D You really are unique, you know that don't you ;-)

PS. Puzzler, my sweetbunny, although it seems clear that you would like to have love affair with me I think I will just ignore you from now one. Pa pa!

- Do you suggest I am stupid? If so, please do give facts to support your suggestion. Are you able to? It seems to me that, in reality, you're just not smart enough to debate with me, so, in order to save face, you start acting condescending, hoping to convince the reader that Puzzler is indeed stupid. What you're doing, pal, is called a rhetorical fallacy (by behaviour). You're a liar and slanderer, aren't you? Your 'sweetbunny' may be your mother, not me. You can 'ignore' me, I don't care, but I reserve the right to comment on your posts.

:)

I've never heard that terminology (Judaists vs zionists). So get this straight: The vast majority of religious jews and rabbis are both committed to the jewish faith and also zionists since they see the return of Jews to their homeland as a fulfillment of the faith. (There are of course many non-religious jews who are zionists for more historic and cultural reasons). There are also some ultra-orthodox jews who are against zionism. They share the ultimate goal of returning to the homeland. They just believe that we should wait for the messiah before doing that. They also resent the secular nature of much of the zionist movement. But today, most ultra orthodox jews have accepted jewish statehood as a good thing, while keeping their distance ideologically. Their stance is no less political than the stance of religious zionists. Each has their ideology. Each has their interpretation of judaism. The zionist approach is by far more widespread.

jewsagainstzionism.com/slideshow/2006Nov9nyc.cfm, maybe you are right but not completely.

Why do Jews milk America when their dream is to return to their homeland?

What? My god! Another jewish messiah? Again they will tell us about immaculate conception? I can't bear it. No doubts, jews can breed vegetatively, but I cannot, sorry!

Fact is this is an on going problem. Majority of this comes from "Jewish" news from Israel, USA and beyond. Google "Polish Concentration Camp" then try "Nazi occupied Polish Concentration Camps" or for a real thrill "Soviet run Concentration Camps". Not as many Jewish in Soviet camps and they also ran the camps but they were also there.

I don't read too much on this issue. There's so much distortion, I just gave up.

Celinski: I think it's more of the problem of this "Victor's write the history". And please read me carefully here, I'm not saying that our history as it's know from books is some lie by the victors, but first it always goes their way - more or less. And as the things did go after Yalta, we could say that here the ones who lost lot of their voice were the people who fell under Soviet sphere of influense after WW II.

And all in all I see the Allied-Soviet victory as the least evil from the other options that were Axis victory or, if Molotov-Ribbentrop pact had held, the Axis-Soviet victory. One can only imagine how much history would have been distorted under those other options. Also, if you read about the radical Nazi doctrine about future for Slavic race, I could not really see that as an option if I were Slav.

What comes to the Jewish suffering compared to Polish suffering, I can only say that ones suffering does not exclude others suffering, all people should remember this... And there was a lot common Polish&Jewish suffering.

In Poland during WW II, only of the Poland's own inhabitants, some 3 million Polish Jews were killed (90% of total Polish Jewish population) and almost the same amount of non-Jewish Poles (another 10% of the total population of the country). In total, more than 20% of Her pre-war inhabitans were killed during the war. That is huge amount for any country to bare.

We were one of the "victor's" , forth in size.


This depends on where you where in Sept. 1939. Evil comes in many forms. Hitler and Stalin were one in the same. When Nazi's were given directions on how to build "gas chambers" by Soviet's were they thinking of human suffering. If it had not been the need for hard labor workers the Siberia deportee's would have meet the same fate inflicted by Soviets. All one has to do is look at the death toll.

Where Hitler did not care for slaving people to death, Stalin felt he was in a win, win.

You make a ridiculous statement and then you ask me why we do it. We don't. That's my answer.

And you, Celinski,
You always bellyache about how Polish suffering doesn't get enough mention. Instead of complaining, why don't you set up a website yourself and focus on Polish suffering? No one's stopping you. Why do you think Jews have to do the work for you? Isn't it enough that we run the banks, do we also have to run the internet?

Jews don't milk America? Really? So you guys would be richer in Israel without Hollywood and controlling much of the US media?

This is one thing that Wahldo and I agree on. In fact, the puts the case firmer.

Please keep the conversation on subject of this thread. I'm sure Internet is full of threads where great minds who think alike gather to say the truth about Israeli policies etc. etc.


What do you mean? Gas chambers were very Nazi thing. Soviets preferred work camps and shot in the back of the head in the NKVD manner (actually, also Nazi "security" units did this).

It was a Pyrrhic victory. Poland history was written by Soviet Union and local communists for fifty years.

Something based on this model: Poland Injustice

"63 Years, 4 Months, and 15 Days since my family's property was stolen by the Poles."
?


Oh, you're trying hard to run it.

I think what is being said is only Jews are smart enough to run the Banks, Hollywood, the Internet, the USA and the world.......why blame the Jews for your (collective your) not being smart enough to run the Banks, Hollywood, the Internet, the USA and the world. Come on guys get real .....make a start eat more fish it's supposed to be good for the brain :-)

Look at how the banks are being managed now. The point is, they aren't. Mismanagement abound.

Greed has ruined everything. What a catastrophic state of affairs.