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Polish Anti-semitism - origins?


fred_chopin  
27 Jan 2009 /  #151
This one:

I really wish we had no diplomatic or any other ties with Israel; I wish no Jews visited us.

fred_chopin  
27 Jan 2009 /  #153
If one was neutral towards Jews, one might say, "I welcome the Jewish tourist to spend his money, but I might not interact with them"

If one was positive about them, one might say "I welcome the Jewish tourist in Poland, I would do my best to make him feel welcome and would hope he recommends to his brethren that they too should come"

By stating "I really wish we had no diplomatic or any other ties with Israel; I wish no Jews visited us" it appears you are negative towards the Jews. Unless of course, you can show me a positive side to this statement.
Jacy - | 5  
27 Jan 2009 /  #154
Jacy, I don't care who you are - as long as you are nice - human - and not full of hate towards me and my Polish countrymen and Poland.

I have never had any reason to hate Poland or Polish people.

Now regarding the Star of David question. Who advised those Jews not to wear those stars? Other Jews, surely?

No, actually they were Christian Polish people. The Jewish people I am referring to never found any Jews.

I really wish we had no diplomatic or any other ties with Israel; I wish no Jews visited us.

I am sorry you feel this way. Sad to say, not many Jews I know really wish to visit Poland. Many of them have a very hard time even visiting Auschwitz. However, I think it would be discouraging tourism if all Polish people felt the way you do, which in these economic times might be desirable to encourage tourists to visit.
Puzzler 9 | 1,089  
27 Jan 2009 /  #155
However, I think it would be discouraging tourism if all Polish people felt the way you do, which in these economic times might be desirable to encourage tourists to visit.

- Oh boy. The usual stuff when talking to you guys - grabbing sentences out of context, etc., right? The usual primitive tricks. I don't have time for this bullshit, so -goodbye.
fred_chopin  
27 Jan 2009 /  #156
Please put it in context for us before you go. Oh, and this too:

By stating "I really wish we had no diplomatic or any other ties with Israel; I wish no Jews visited us" it appears you are negative towards the Jews. Unless of course, you can show me a positive side to this statement.

Puzzler 9 | 1,089  
27 Jan 2009 /  #157
- OK, I'll put it in context for you before I leave. :)

Here it is: I wish we had no diplomatic or other ties with Israel, I wish no Jews visited us, if the Israelis and Jewish visitors should act in an abusive, Polonophobic, racist and slanderous manner towards the Poles while visiting Poland.

That's what I meant and still mean, and what should be apparent in my post - that is, apparent for anyone who is able to read and understand written text.
Jacy - | 5  
27 Jan 2009 /  #158
Oh boy. The usual stuff when talking to you guys - grabbing sentences out of context, etc., right? The usual primitive tricks. I don't have time for this bullshit, so -goodbye.

Tricks? Huh? I don't play tricks so please don't imply that I do; you don't know me. It sounded like you didn't want Jews to visit Poland. But I guess after you explained it, I get the impression that it "seems" as if you don't want "racist, abusive" people visiting Poland. You mean like skinheads, or that ilk? Trying to understand here. No Jews that I know hate Poland. Where did you meet Jews who do? Have you spoken personally to them? Or are you believing news reports?

And another thing - I am not a guy. ;)
sjam 2 | 541  
28 Jan 2009 /  #159
.......Also, I've heard horror stories about...........

With respect isn't this part of the problem?

You have heard stories but not actually witnessed anything .........Jews have heard stories about Poles so they remove Star of David symbols .......myths are created from stories heard on both sides and the small number of these incidents become accepted as being behaviour and attitudes applied to all.
jwojcie 2 | 763  
28 Jan 2009 /  #160
Everyone who don't know or forget, definition of internet troll is here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

Just please don't feed him, it is the only way (if you are not an admin).
Conversation is pointless.
DtLebowski 1 | 26  
28 Jan 2009 /  #161
Not so many Jewish people here, only us who think that we are the experts on subject called "the Jews".

Hope you haven't been horrified. :)
yehudi 1 | 433  
28 Jan 2009 /  #162
I'm jewish. But I don't have much to say about this discussion. Puzzler is in the way.

By the way, Seanus, you mentioned a conflict between the "judaists and the zionists". I've been a jew for a pretty long time and I haven't heard of that. Care to give some detail?
Puzzler 9 | 1,089  
28 Jan 2009 /  #163
I don't play tricks

- I'm glad to hear that; it seemed to me you pulled my sentence out of context in order to manipulate it. I've met many people, including Jews, who did that.

I get the impression that it "seems" as if you don't want "racist, abusive" people visiting Poland

- That's exactly it - I don't want Polonophobes, of any nationality, who repeatedly exhibit strong incurable Polonophobia (= hatred of Poles), to visit my country. I don't mind if other nations, including Jews, think exactly the same in regard to those who exhibit strong incurable hatred of those nations. I cannot imagine an Israeli person wanting incurable Jewphobes to visit Israel. On the other hand, of course, I don't mind if people who are mutually prejudiced, but willing to communicate with each other, visit and communicate with each other in order to overcome mutual prejudice.

No Jews that I know hate Poland. Where did you meet Jews who do?

- In North America and in Europe. I suspect you know what general phenomenon I'm referring to, don't you? If you do, then you should talk honestly with me. If you don't talk honestly with me, our exchange will be pointless. Oh, and sorry for assuming you are a man, and therefore talking with you the way I usually do with men, including stronger vocabulary. Forgive me.

You have heard stories but not actually witnessed anything

- I've heard stories, and also witnessed some things.

myths are created from stories heard on both sides and the small number of these incidents become accepted as being behaviour and attitudes applied to all

- True, in my experience, definitely it's been the case quite frequently.

Just please don't feed him, it is the only way (if you are not an admin).
Conversation is pointless.

- Actually, 'conversation is pointless' with brainless, shameless, obsequious, bereft of any knowledge, bereft of any honour, mentally inbalanced Polonophobes like you. Besides, if you want to converse in a language, learn the language first. Your 'English' is atrocious.

Not so many Jewish people here, only us who think that we are the experts on subject called "the Jews". Hope you haven't been horrified. :)

-And here comes another ingratiating shameless Polonophobe without any honour and self-respect. Yes, there is a bit - just a bit - of grotesque prostitute scum like you two (jwojcie and lebowski) in Poland.

:)
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
28 Jan 2009 /  #164
Even in the last Gaza crisis, yehudi, there were anti-Zionist marches in America which were conducted by Judaists (Rabbis). There are fight videos on Youtube if you care to have a look.

associatedcontent.com/article/844663/why_usa_should_reject_the_zionists_pg3.html

The Zionists have a political agenda whereas the Judaists keep the faith alive.
DtLebowski 1 | 26  
28 Jan 2009 /  #165
Puzzler

-And here comes another ingratiating shameless Polonophobe without any honour and self-respect. Yes, there is a bit - just a bit - of grotesque prostitute scum like you two (jwojcie and lebowski) in Poland.

ROFL? I really have problem with taking you seriously. But the good thing is that I laugh the s*it out of myself reading you. :D You really are unique, you know that don't you ;-)

PS. Puzzler, my sweetbunny, although it seems clear that you would like to have love affair with me I think I will just ignore you from now one. Pa pa!
Puzzler 9 | 1,089  
28 Jan 2009 /  #166
- Do you suggest I am stupid? If so, please do give facts to support your suggestion. Are you able to? It seems to me that, in reality, you're just not smart enough to debate with me, so, in order to save face, you start acting condescending, hoping to convince the reader that Puzzler is indeed stupid. What you're doing, pal, is called a rhetorical fallacy (by behaviour). You're a liar and slanderer, aren't you? Your 'sweetbunny' may be your mother, not me. You can 'ignore' me, I don't care, but I reserve the right to comment on your posts.

:)
yehudi 1 | 433  
28 Jan 2009 /  #167
Even in the last Gaza crisis, yehudi, there were anti-Zionist marches in America which were conducted by Judaists

I've never heard that terminology (Judaists vs zionists). So get this straight: The vast majority of religious jews and rabbis are both committed to the jewish faith and also zionists since they see the return of Jews to their homeland as a fulfillment of the faith. (There are of course many non-religious jews who are zionists for more historic and cultural reasons). There are also some ultra-orthodox jews who are against zionism. They share the ultimate goal of returning to the homeland. They just believe that we should wait for the messiah before doing that. They also resent the secular nature of much of the zionist movement. But today, most ultra orthodox jews have accepted jewish statehood as a good thing, while keeping their distance ideologically. Their stance is no less political than the stance of religious zionists. Each has their ideology. Each has their interpretation of judaism. The zionist approach is by far more widespread.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
28 Jan 2009 /  #168
jewsagainstzionism.com/slideshow/2006Nov9nyc.cfm, maybe you are right but not completely.

Why do Jews milk America when their dream is to return to their homeland?
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
28 Jan 2009 /  #169
What? My god! Another jewish messiah? Again they will tell us about immaculate conception? I can't bear it. No doubts, jews can breed vegetatively, but I cannot, sorry!
celinski 31 | 1,258  
28 Jan 2009 /  #170
I haven't seen accounts of labelling the camps as Polish ones.

Fact is this is an on going problem. Majority of this comes from "Jewish" news from Israel, USA and beyond. Google "Polish Concentration Camp" then try "Nazi occupied Polish Concentration Camps" or for a real thrill "Soviet run Concentration Camps". Not as many Jewish in Soviet camps and they also ran the camps but they were also there.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
28 Jan 2009 /  #171
I don't read too much on this issue. There's so much distortion, I just gave up.
DtLebowski 1 | 26  
29 Jan 2009 /  #172
Celinski: I think it's more of the problem of this "Victor's write the history". And please read me carefully here, I'm not saying that our history as it's know from books is some lie by the victors, but first it always goes their way - more or less. And as the things did go after Yalta, we could say that here the ones who lost lot of their voice were the people who fell under Soviet sphere of influense after WW II.

And all in all I see the Allied-Soviet victory as the least evil from the other options that were Axis victory or, if Molotov-Ribbentrop pact had held, the Axis-Soviet victory. One can only imagine how much history would have been distorted under those other options. Also, if you read about the radical Nazi doctrine about future for Slavic race, I could not really see that as an option if I were Slav.

What comes to the Jewish suffering compared to Polish suffering, I can only say that ones suffering does not exclude others suffering, all people should remember this... And there was a lot common Polish&Jewish suffering.

In Poland during WW II, only of the Poland's own inhabitants, some 3 million Polish Jews were killed (90% of total Polish Jewish population) and almost the same amount of non-Jewish Poles (another 10% of the total population of the country). In total, more than 20% of Her pre-war inhabitans were killed during the war. That is huge amount for any country to bare.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
29 Jan 2009 /  #173
We were one of the "victor's" , forth in size.

all I see the Allied-Soviet victory as the least evil from the other options that were Axis victory

This depends on where you where in Sept. 1939. Evil comes in many forms. Hitler and Stalin were one in the same. When Nazi's were given directions on how to build "gas chambers" by Soviet's were they thinking of human suffering. If it had not been the need for hard labor workers the Siberia deportee's would have meet the same fate inflicted by Soviets. All one has to do is look at the death toll.

Where Hitler did not care for slaving people to death, Stalin felt he was in a win, win.
yehudi 1 | 433  
29 Jan 2009 /  #174
Why do Jews milk America when their dream is to return to their homeland?

You make a ridiculous statement and then you ask me why we do it. We don't. That's my answer.

And you, Celinski,
You always bellyache about how Polish suffering doesn't get enough mention. Instead of complaining, why don't you set up a website yourself and focus on Polish suffering? No one's stopping you. Why do you think Jews have to do the work for you? Isn't it enough that we run the banks, do we also have to run the internet?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
29 Jan 2009 /  #175
Jews don't milk America? Really? So you guys would be richer in Israel without Hollywood and controlling much of the US media?

This is one thing that Wahldo and I agree on. In fact, the puts the case firmer.
DtLebowski 1 | 26  
29 Jan 2009 /  #176
Please keep the conversation on subject of this thread. I'm sure Internet is full of threads where great minds who think alike gather to say the truth about Israeli policies etc. etc.

When Nazi's were given directions on how to build "gas chambers" by Soviet's were they thinking of human suffering.

What do you mean? Gas chambers were very Nazi thing. Soviets preferred work camps and shot in the back of the head in the NKVD manner (actually, also Nazi "security" units did this).
jwojcie 2 | 763  
29 Jan 2009 /  #177
We were one of the "victor's" , forth in size.

It was a Pyrrhic victory. Poland history was written by Soviet Union and local communists for fifty years.
Easy_Terran 3 | 312  
29 Jan 2009 /  #178
why don't you set up a website yourself

Something based on this model: Poland Injustice

"63 Years, 4 Months, and 15 Days since my family's property was stolen by the Poles."
?

do we also have to run the internet

Oh, you're trying hard to run it.
sjam 2 | 541  
30 Jan 2009 /  #179
Why do you think Jews have to do the work for you? Isn't it enough that we run the banks, do we also have to run the internet?

I think what is being said is only Jews are smart enough to run the Banks, Hollywood, the Internet, the USA and the world.......why blame the Jews for your (collective your) not being smart enough to run the Banks, Hollywood, the Internet, the USA and the world. Come on guys get real .....make a start eat more fish it's supposed to be good for the brain :-)
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
30 Jan 2009 /  #180
Look at how the banks are being managed now. The point is, they aren't. Mismanagement abound.

Greed has ruined everything. What a catastrophic state of affairs.

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