The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / UK, Ireland  % width posts: 96

Daniel Pelka murder: Polish mother and stepfather face life sentences


Ant63 13 | 410
2 Aug 2013 #31
The nationality of the parents is irrelevant - the law requires makes the state responsible for the welfare of all children physically present in the UK, regardless of citizenship issues.

From 3 years of bouncing back and forth between Polish and UK courts I know it is not that simple but you are right in what you stated.
Bieganski 17 | 896
2 Aug 2013 #32
The child is Polish, I suspect he held a Polish passport and I suspect and the parents had no affiliation with UK other than being here.

Yes, and some Polish migrants are welcomed in their new communities while others are met with hostility or indifference. In any event Daniel was living and attending school in Coventry. He was very much a part of the community.

There are all sorts of legal implications and then you have cultural differences. What is acceptable in Poland may or may not be acceptable in the UK,

Yes, but the evidence and testimonies used in the trial had nothing to do with cultural differences. There were three police visits to the home. Teachers noticed bruises on exposed parts of his body. Month after month Daniel continued to emaciate (likened to a "bag of bones" and concentration camp victim) even though he was also observed stealing scraps from other children's lunch boxes and worse rummaging through bins around the school for food.

When does common sense kick in?
OP jon357 67 | 16,854
2 Aug 2013 #33
If there are transnational custody issues that indeed makes it complicated.

The courts can also waive responsibility for a child, as they did with that one from America who was sold online by its parents to a rich elderly couple in Wales. They sent the kid back to the care of the authorities in the US, however a court ruling was needed.
Ant63 13 | 410
2 Aug 2013 #34
Yes, and some Polish migrants are welcomed in their new communities while others are met with hostility or indifference.

TBH it sounds like they arrived hostile to the neighbourhood from the media reports

Yes, but the evidence used in the trial had nothing to do with cultural differences.

The trial was to determine guilt not the failure of the school or social services. Wait for the public enquiry.
Bieganski 17 | 896
2 Aug 2013 #35
TBH it sounds like they arrived hostile to the neighbourhood from the media reports

All the more reason then for police, teachers, social workers, neighbors, friends, work colleagues and other parents to have connected the dots as to why a 4 year old child was frequently showing bruises, displaying desperate behavior, and wasting away before their own eyes.

It's a sad state of affairs that Britain can only muster collective concern when a cat gets stuck up in a tree or when a wealthy celeb files for divorce.

The trial was to determine guilt not the failure of the school or social services. Wait for the public enquiry.

But you raised the issue of cultural difference.
rybnik 18 | 1,461
2 Aug 2013 #36
All the more reason then for police, teachers, social workers, neighbors, friends, work colleagues and other parents to have connected the dots as to why a 4 year old child was frequently showing bruises, displaying desperate behavior, and wasting away before their own eyes.

yes !

It's a sad state of affairs when Britain can only muster collective concern when a cat gets stuck up in a tree or when a wealthy celeb files for divorce.

lol
Ant63 13 | 410
2 Aug 2013 #37
But you raised the issue of cultural difference.

I raised the cultural difference, not as an attack on anyone, but because I know from our children's school how much weight cultural differences are held within UK schools, how it gets repeated back parrot fashion, and should you dare question why on earth they remove a child from a class to learn English with a Polish teacher that can't speak English anywhere near as well as the child in question, they get worried and say we have to respect her Polish culture. So contrary to the fight you want to pick, I'm not suggesting that culture had something to do with it, but the ingrained fear teachers have of offending a pupils culture which is possibly why nothing or little was done.

I repeat the following

Poland
3000 missing children a year
1700 babies sold
Tier 1 country for child trafficking.

Pot Kettle Black
Bieganski 17 | 896
2 Aug 2013 #38
A child showing obvious signs from physical abuse which got progressively worse month after month does not compare in any manner to a parent wanting their child to be taught by a different teacher.

The only role cultural differences could possibly have played into this horrific and sickening crime would be if others who could and should have done something to intervene were stupid enough to believe that it must be cultural for a Polish child to drastically lose weight, stop growing compared to his peers, and look for food among rubbish. Like I already said some Polish migrants are accepted in their new surrounding while others are not. So I don't doubt there were those who looked upon Daniel's deteriorating condition and didn't care either way simply because he came from a Polish family. Just another "bloody foreigner" who doesn't belong in Britain, eh?

I repeat the following

Poland
3000 missing children a year
1700 babies sold
Tier 1 country for child trafficking.

Pot Kettle Black

Where's your source for these statistics?

What point are you trying to make with this information anyway? Are you suggesting that the convicts Luczak and Krezolek should have been given a lighter sentence because their despicable crimes against Daniel somehow pale in comparison to the volume of child trafficking in other parts of the world?
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859
3 Aug 2013 #39
The teacher questioned the mother about the kids constant hunger and she was fobbed off with the ould 'he has an eating disorder and is always hungry excuse'.

The mother was addicted to drugs and occasionally went on the game.

Heads will roll over this. Its mad to think that nobody stepped in and contacted social services. Especially after the nipper arrived into school sporting bruises and black eyes.
rybnik 18 | 1,461
3 Aug 2013 #40
nobody stepped in and contacted social services. Especially after the nipper arrived into school sporting bruises and black eyes.

it's really very sad
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859
3 Aug 2013 #41
It really is, man. Everyone agrees that child abuse is seriously wrong. But on the flipside, I've had conversations with people about the Catholic church child abuse scandals here in Ireland and the bbc child abuse cover ups. An element of 'ah sure, you cant catch them all' and 'there will always be child abusers' seaps into the conversation. As if people believe its just part of society and accept it as such.

Its very worrying. There are members of my current government who turned a blind eye to abuse of their own young family members, carried out by fellow family members. Covering up child abuse of their own kin ffs.

Children in Britain and Ireland have it better than 90% of kids across the globe - no mistake. But strives still need to be made.
Mister H 11 | 761
3 Aug 2013 #42
I read that yesterday too.

Part of the problem is that social services are overwhelmed with cases and just simply cannot cope. This together with the fact that they pussyfoot around cultural sensitivities means that cases like this are increasingly inevitable.
mafketis 29 | 9,518
3 Aug 2013 #43
This together with the fact that they pussyfoot around cultural sensitivities means that cases like this are increasingly inevitable

Ain't multiculturalism grand? What are a few kids' lives compared with the self-righteous glow of not offending anyone?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,845
4 Aug 2013 #44
It's a sad state of affairs that Britain can only muster collective concern when a cat gets stuck up in a tree or when a wealthy celeb files for divorce.

oh right so the psycho stepfather and sick mother were not responsible for this, Britain was? I see.
this is something i have noticed time and again, even heard it said. 'not my fault, I am Polish'
citizen67 6 | 191
12 Sep 2013 #45
20, 000 kids under eleven were put on record for committing hate crimes in the uk in one year alone - But they ignore a stick thin kid, sporting two black eyes and who was regularly caught robbing sandwiches and rooting through bins to find some scraps of food.What a messed up system. How did these cretins run an empire? Its baffling.

Yes, it is definitely all the British fault.
Mister H 11 | 761
17 Sep 2013 #46
So we will see a mass Exodus of Polish families who don't see this as a safe country to raise a family ?
grubas 12 | 1,390
17 Sep 2013 #47
oh right so the psycho stepfather and sick mother were not responsible for this, Britain was? I see.

Are you trying to argue that British CPS (whatever you call it there) did not totally fail?Who would expect it,right?Afterall police was called to their place only almost 30 times (according to today's GW) due to domestic violence.

this is something i have noticed time and again, even heard it said. 'not my fault, I am Polish'

I have noticed something different "I can't be/do wrong I am BRITISH".You people suffer from superiority complex.

Yes, it is definitely all the British fault.

No sane person would say that but the fact is that BRITISH services totally failed this kid.
Ant63 13 | 410
17 Sep 2013 #48
Are you trying to argue that British CPS (whatever you call it there) did not totally fail?

It's called irony. Yawn.

Multiple agencies failed. No one said anything different.

The inferiority complex kicking in. I think you may find those Brits tend to be magnanimous.

No sane person would say that but the fact is that BRITISH services totally failed this kid.

Congratulations you have come to the same conclusion as everyone else but you appear not to want to blame the killers. At least there is a service to pick up the pieces in the majority of cases unlike elsewhere.
OP jon357 67 | 16,854
17 Sep 2013 #49
CPS

The Crown Prosecution Service? They did rather well - they got the perp put away for life, after all.

Edit
Do you mean child protection services? In that case, their role is very restricted due to laws passed by politicians who thing that 'freedom' and 'the family' are more important than the community's right to intervene.

Anyway, Grubas, I seem to remember you praising that turd Rutkowski for abducting a child who was in the care of social services due to abusive parents. You can't have it both ways, and a middle way costs far, far more than people are prepared to cough up without complaining andr voting for political parties who hate public spending.
Nile 1 | 154
17 Sep 2013 #50
Hey people stop pointing fingers at each other and shifting a blame. An innocent child is dead because adults are just too selfish and too stupid to care about others, especially those who are innocent and defenseless.

For love of sanity show some empathy and compassion rather then flaunt your selfish prejudices here.
OP jon357 67 | 16,854
17 Sep 2013 #51
You have a strange definition of 'selfish prejudices' if you think it's 'selfish' or a 'prejudice' that at-risk children are protected.
Nile 1 | 154
17 Sep 2013 #52
Jon your sentence went over my head. If it is important please rephrase your sentience in such a way I would be able to understand your meaning.
OP jon357 67 | 16,854
17 Sep 2013 #53
Read carefully. It isn't about people's prejudices, it's about protecting the vulnerable. There's quite a history on here of people criticising social services when they intervene - indeed some have said here that the family always knows best and the state shouldn't play any role at all.
grubas 12 | 1,390
17 Sep 2013 #54
Do you mean child protection services?

Yes.The British equivalent of it.

Anyway, Grubas, I seem to remember you praising that turd Rutkowski for abducting a child who was in the care of social services due to abusive parents.

You cannot compare both cases as in case of Daniel P. signs of abuse/mistreatment were (should be) obvious.In the other case not so much.

After reading more about the case in today's Mail Online it is clear to me that nothing was done because Daniel P. was,well,just a little Polack.

It also seems that Poland's and UK's agencies have much in common as nobody is being held responsible.Pretty shocking if you consider UK a "civilized" country.
Nile 1 | 154
17 Sep 2013 #55
I have been talking about Ant63 and Biegansk among others bickering in this thread as if they wouldn't care that an innocent child has been killed.

the state shouldn't play any role at all.

Seems to me the state and social services didn't play any role at all in protecting the child in this case. Not that it matters now.
Sonorous 3 | 8
17 Sep 2013 #56
I wish they'd torture the people who do this to their kids, or anyone.
The people who murdered Daniel deserve a slow and painful death, in my opinion.
OP jon357 67 | 16,854
17 Sep 2013 #57
Seems to me the state and social services didn't play any role at all in protecting the child in this case.

Because in very large part they've got hardly any money, not enough staff and surprisingly few legal powers. Plus extreme hostility from the media when they actually do something.

Not that it matters now

If it saves even one kid in the future, something will have been achieved. Not that I'm convinced it will have any effect.
grubas 12 | 1,390
17 Sep 2013 #58
Because in very large part they've got hardly any money, not enough staff and surprisingly few legal powers.

Excuses,excuses.Mail Online says this boy was scavenging for food scraps in trash bins!FFS,even I,not being trained or anything would show some interest.Ok,his mother lied about his eating disorder but I don't believe that CPS couldn't request his medical history or even order medical examination .Nobody cared because he was Polish.
OP jon357 67 | 16,854
17 Sep 2013 #59
That's one of the daftest things you've said here. Sad too, since a child died. Interesting you've completely changed your tune though, and were recently heavily criticising the child protection services for removing a child from its abusive parents. I wonder if the nationality involved has something to do with it...

Sad.
Mister H 11 | 761
17 Sep 2013 #60
After reading more about the case in today's Mail Online it is clear to me that nothing was done because Daniel P. was,well,just a little Polack.

Nobody cared because he was Polish.

I really doubt that.

The social services of this country are overworked and under-resourced and some of that is to do with mass immigration.


Home / UK, Ireland / Daniel Pelka murder: Polish mother and stepfather face life sentences
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.