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The Cognitive Dissonance and Campaign of Hate by Polonophobes and Other Peddlers of Anti-Polish Propaganda



Bieganski 15 | 775    
8 May 2016  #1

This thread is in response to all the despicable Polonophobes and other peddlers of anti-Polish propaganda expressed on PF and elsewhere in the world.

In particular it is to highlight and address the contradictions in logic and outright campaign of hatred and lies leveled against Poland, Poles in Poland, Poles living abroad, and Polonia.

This thread is also meant for the motivated bigots who both actively and subtly express their pathological hatred for Poland, her people, and diaspora to admit their guilt and fully explain themselves to the forum so they can be held to account.

For instance,

- the patently false accusation that PF itself is a hate site akin to "Stormfront" and one made by non-Polish members who have been posting regularly on PF for years but are desperate to silence the diversity of opinions expressed by Poles and Polonia because they don't conform to their own extreme and foreign leftist narrative;

- the complete misuse and sickening abuse of the word "Nazi" to assassinate the character of Poles and Polonia who express any love for Poland, its people and culture;

- the disturbing outright lie that "Polonophobia" is not even a word and one made by bigots in order to strangle discussion of it by refusing upfront to acknowledge that this is a very real problem which has existed for centuries right up to the present day;

- the absurdity of Polonophobes who use the terms Poles and Polonia while simultaneously suggesting without any supporting proof that these groups have completely assimilated when living in other societies and somehow no longer (or according to their own warped beliefs shouldn't) have any sentiment or connection to Poland and other Poles;

- the ceaseless faultfinding of all things Polish with the implied if not forthright expectation that Poles and Polonia should abandon their own identity and culture and replace them with anything else as long as it isn't Polish.


delphiandomine 87 | 15,756    
8 May 2016  #2

I fail to see how this is anything other than yet another attempt at trolling.

We all know that "Polonophobia" simply doesn't exist except in the minds of the paranoid.
Harry 81 | 13,431    
8 May 2016  #3

I fail to see how this is anything other than yet another attempt at trolling.

That's because this thread is nothing more than trolling. Trolling to be banned here, just as racist abuse was banned here, and attacking people's family members was also banned here. But now all of them are perfectly acceptable, recent posts by the likes of pigsy and Adrian clearly show.
Szalawa 4 | 254    
8 May 2016  #4

You conveniently forgot something Harry... "just like I (Harry) was banned here" should be included in your critical analysis.
delphiandomine 87 | 15,756    
8 May 2016  #5

But now all of them are perfectly acceptable

Indeed. Perhaps a thread discussing how some members play up some imaginary connection to Poland to justify horrific racial abuse would be interesting, don't you think?
OP Bieganski 15 | 775    
8 May 2016  #6

Touch a raw nerve did I? A topic too close to home?

For the record both of you have been suspended numerous and lengthy times on PF for trolling.

With that background I fail to see how either one of you can call this very serious and legitimate topic as trolling. Indeed, neither one of you could refute a single issue which I raised.

So, lets try again.

Do any of you regard PF as a hate site and if so why do you post here all the time?

Given that Poland was a victim of many wars of aggression, particularly during WWII, why do you then believe terms like "Nazi" or "brownshirt" should be applied to any Poles or Polonia?

Why do anti-Polish bigots try to delegitimize the term Polonophobia even when the term has been written about by academia?

Why do Polonophobes use platforms like PF to uphold all things which aren't Polish while simultaneously attacking all things which are?
delphiandomine 87 | 15,756    
8 May 2016  #7

Touch a raw nerve did I? A topic too close to home?

What topic? It's obvious that anyone pushing the tired old "Polonophobia" line is actually using it as a cover for vile racist abuse towards others.

Given that Poland was a victim of many wars of aggression, particularly during WWII, why do you then believe terms like "Nazi" or "brownshirt" should be applied to any Poles or Polonia?

Poland was also the aggressor on many occasions, as is well documented. The aggression towards Czechoslovakia in 1938 should quite rightfully be called Nazi collusion, because that's what it was.

Why do anti-Polish bigots try to delegitimize the term Polonophobia even when the term has been written about by academia?

The term has been written about in terms of how it's used by racists to justify their attitude towards others, yes.

With that background I fail to see how either one of you can call this very serious and legitimate topic as trolling.

It's not a serious and legitimate topic at all. It's a laughable topic, discussed by people that meet under stairs with tin foil hats on their heads.
Harry 81 | 13,431    
8 May 2016  #8

Do any of you regard PF as a hate site and if so why do you post here all the time?

This place becomes more and more like Stormfront every day. l keep posting here because I very much like Poland and Polish people and I really do not want to this site to be something that a lot of people mistakenly think is typical for Poland and Polish people. This site is not typical for Poland Polish people; this site is being destroyed by vile hate-filled bigoted failures, very few of whom have anything to do with Poland.
delphiandomine 87 | 15,756    
8 May 2016  #9

This site is not typical for Poland Polish people; this site is being destroyed by vile hate-filled bigoted failures, very few of whom have anything to do with Poland.

Exactly. It's a dreadful view of Poland to the world - those of us living here know that Poland is nothing like the Poland that some of these "patriots" claim.
johnny reb 14 | 2,265    
8 May 2016  #10

who have been posting regularly on PF for years but are desperate to silence the diversity of opinions expressed by Poles and Polonia because they don't conform to their own extreme and foreign leftist narrative;

That nails it right there Bieganski.
Well done I must say. Excellent !
You just popped their self righteous authoritive balloon.
I just posted last week that NEVER have I heard a Polish poster talk smack about Poland's new government for an example.
It is ALWAYS the ex-pats that bad mouth the Polish government.
Again, NEVER have I heard a single Polish person favor homosexuality or immigration, again, it is always the ex-pats.
The ex-pats on this forum do a whole lot of speaking for Poland and the Polish people.
There have been posts where Polish people tell them not to be speaking for Poland.
Yet they demand that their opinions are the opinions of the Polish people.
With that said, thank you so much for starting this thread.
As you can see you have already hit their little nut nerve with it.
delphiandomine 87 | 15,756    
8 May 2016  #11

I just posted last week that NEVER have I heard a Polish poster talk smack about Poland's new government for an example.

Lying again, Johnny.

https://polishforums.com/news/poland-post-election-political-scene-76400/59/#msg1543814 - Paulina is Polish
https://polishforums.com/news/poland-abortion-still-under-control-62528/32/#msg1541719 - Lenka is Polish
https://polishforums.com/news/poland-pis-impose-blanket-retail-tax-77028/2/#msg1526552 - pweeg is Polish

List goes on, just like your lies.

With that said, thank you so much for starting this thread.

Another one to PM, eh?
johnny reb 14 | 2,265    
8 May 2016  #12

List goes on,

Go for it.
delphiandomine 87 | 15,756    
8 May 2016  #13

I've shown you three separate posters that have criticised PiS recently. You claimed none.

Don't worry, I don't expect you to understand anything about Poland, given that you only post on here to abuse and insult women.
Grzegorz_ 52 | 6,190    
8 May 2016  #14

pweeg is Polish

He isn't.
Ironside 46 | 8,406    
8 May 2016  #15

We all know that "Polonophobia" simply doesn't exist except in the minds of the paranoid

Really? What is that? A figment of my imagination?

Today, anti-Polish sentiment more often entails derogatory stereotyping and defamation, rather than open discrimination

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Polish_sentiment

Poland was also the aggressor on many occasions, as is well documented.

Yet you could name a one occasion and a lame one at that.

That's because this thread is nothing more than trolling.

Harry you better stay quiet instead of spewing that old line of yours as you are full of it.

given that you only post on here to abuse and insult women.

Are you a woman Delphi? That is a news to me.
delphiandomine 87 | 15,756    
8 May 2016  #16

Really? What is that? A figment of my imagination?

Absolutely. It's a cover story used by racists, nothing more.

Yet you could name a one occasion and a lame one at that.

Lame to invade a country in collaboration with the Nazis? Yes, very much lame. Probably one of the lamest incidents in Polish history.

Today, anti-Polish sentiment more often entails derogatory stereotyping and defamation, rather than open discrimination

What's new? You can read derogatory stereotyping and defamation about Muslims on here daily.

Are you a woman Delphi? That is a news to me.

He doesn't really abuse me, and when he does, it's nothing in comparison to the hatred handed out to female posters here.
OP Bieganski 15 | 775    
8 May 2016  #17

It's obvious that anyone pushing the tired old "Polonophobia" line is actually using it as a cover for vile racist abuse towards others.

Poles have been genuine victims of other people's bigotry and yes even armed hostility but have never in turn victimized others in order to settle a score. The only ones living in denial of Polonophobia are Polonophobes themselves.

The aggression towards Czechoslovakia in 1938 should quite rightfully be called Nazi collusion, because that's what it was.

Not true and just another example of anti-Polish propaganda. It is an undisputed fact that Poland never collaborated with the Nazis and for you to suggest otherwise just goes to show that you are willing to rewrite history in order for it to fit your narrative. Very Orwellian indeed!

The term has been written about in terms of how it's used by racists to justify their attitude towards others, yes.

Also not true and worth pointing out that you provided no sources to support your claims because you can't.

It's not a serious and legitimate topic at all. It's a laughable topic, discussed by people that meet under stairs with tin foil hats on their heads.

Yet it has been written about by academics.

Example: "Soviet Polonophobia and the Formulation of Nationalities Policy in the Ukrainian SSR, 1927-1934"

Source: books.google.com/books?id=7wZGG4J8JZIC&pg=PA172&lpg=PA172&dq=polonophobia&source=bl&ots=CODhO4JwPU&sig=-7-c8Q7eoo2iQ2iHL14OwM7bxUU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjAhf7MtMvMAhWLI8AKHaTGCOU4FBDoAQg_MAg#v=onepage&q=polonophobia&f=false

And even acknowledged by the media.

Example: "New figures reveal dramatic increase in hate crimes against Polish people"

Source: theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/11/polish-people-rise-in-attacks-blame-recession-politicians-media

Only Polonophobic bigots and bullies would find any of this a laughable topic to be dismissed with ad hominem attacks.

This site is not typical for Poland Polish people; this site is being destroyed by vile hate-filled bigoted failures, very few of whom have anything to do with Poland.

PF is every bit Polish in how it gives a platform to diverse views with the understanding that it be done in an intelligent and respectful manner. You of all posters are yet to understand this.

And the mods do a great job of regularly suspending those who misuse PF to spread their Polonophobic abuse and anti-Polish propaganda. You more than anyone else on here can attest to this from your own personal experience.

The ex-pats on this forum do a whole lot of speaking for Poland and the Polish people.

Agreed. Their interest in Poland has nothing to do with Poland's history, Polish culture or Polish people. Their daily anti-Polish posts going back years are proof of this.

That is why it was important and necessary to start this thread and confront the cancer of Polonophobia.
Ironside 46 | 8,406    
9 May 2016  #18

Absolutely. It's a cover story used by racists, nothing more.

I see, do you realize that the line of thinking and logic as presented here by you have far reaching consequences?
In that case Anti-Semitism is just a cover story used by racist, nothing more. Thank you Delphi for solving that issue for us, I wonder what will Lzyko make out of it?

I think you are ready for Storm.....something or other, you know that Nazi website you and Harry know so intimately, I'm sure that you'll be a star there due to your claim striping those Jews form their racist tool - anti-Semitism. Bravo!

Lame to invade a country in collaboration with the Nazis?

Not as much as having a king and half of the elites to be the Nazi sympathizers and Hitler admirers.

it's nothing in comparison to the hatred handed out to female posters here.

Oh really? An innocent lamb has spoken, need I remind you what Harry, jon and you were doing to Bzibi. That really was abuse and went beyond the pale! In comparison Johnny's posts are just a gentle breeze and sweet caresses.

Anyhow in the case of inpolska that woman is clearly a mentally unstable chatter box - where is that alleged abuse? PF is not a clinic for mentally ill or intellectually impaired.
InPolska 11 | 1,824    
9 May 2016  #19

Absolutely, Harry and Delph! And yes, Delph, a lof ot people here have NO connection whatsoever with Poland but are only using PF as a propaganda tool against Muslims. Are they paid? How many messages to vomit their hatred against Muslims? Every day PF consists mostly of anti-Muslim propaganda. They only use PF as a cover. How many times for instance Johnny Reb and Levy (just to mention the 2 "best' examples) have discussed topîcs related to Poland? NEVER because 1. they don't know anything re Poland(and elsewhere) and 2. the reason of their being in PF is only to pollute fora with their non stop propaganda and their insults if we dare saying we disagree.

There is more hatred in PF than in ... Mein Kampf! If we disagree with fascists (who of course cannot discuss as they don't know anything about anything) we are insulted and personally attacked (someone dares being gay, someone else dares being jewish, someone else dares being French or Turkish or anything else .... ). How many times have I been insulted, attacked simply because I am ... French? Hard to believe but this is the "level" of the scum (Levy (this one is really mentally sick with his Muslim obsessions (Crow too has obsessions but at least he is always nice and never insults anyone) Wulkan, Grzegorz (only insults from his mouth), Mafketis, Johnny Reb (but I must say that a few months ago, we exchanged a few MP's and he was ok..). Who the hell are they to attack people? And worth noting that as they have no cojones, they do not mess much with men. There is NO excuse to attack members personally (their life style, their family, their background...) because short of arguments to discuss topic. Do they think it is right to behave this way?

Yes, there are nice people but there are too few of them and I dare say that all of them are from western Europe (it obviously means that we are civilized). Sorry, I have never met any Pole on this forum nice and open. If anyone so, please show up and my apologies. Well, I don't agree on a lot of topics with Pol3 but he has never insulted me, attacked me and we also have exchanged MP's. This forum does give Poland and Poles a very BAD image (only hatred, intolerance and insults).

Well, if the scum insult me, I don't care any longer! As said in French "la bave du crapaud n'atteint pas la blanche colombe" or in plain English "I don't give a d...n"

Should messages only re Poland be accepted (aren't fora called ... POLISH?), should racism, insults and personal attacks on members be banned, PF would be a nice place... but it appears that nothing is being done in the direction and it results in the worst extremism and insults galore 24/7/365. Since PF is in America, aren't there laws in America against hate speech (in Western Europe we sure do and matter is taken most seriously)? I would be surprised if in the US there were no such laws.

From now on, I'll only read nice members so no need to insult me as I won't read ;)
johnny reb 14 | 2,265    
9 May 2016  #20

inpolska that woman is clearly a mentally unstable chatter box

Do ya think !

Are you a woman Delphi? That is a news to me.

He is a bi o sexual "B" with a very high pitched prissy voice and wears women's make up so possibly a "T' too.

This thread is long over due with many dumb founded that it is direct toward them.
nothanks - | 664    
9 May 2016  #21

a lof ot people here have NO connection whatsoever with Poland but are only using PF as a propaganda tool against Muslims.

Really? Hahah. I don't think PF gets enough traffic for people to be paid or even commit their free time for trolling.
TheOther 5 | 3,017    
9 May 2016  #22

silence the diversity of opinions expressed by Poles and Polonia because they don't conform to their own extreme and foreign leftist narrative

If this "diversity of opinions" of yours includes the dream of taking back western Ukraine, denying or belittling the Holocaust, xenophobic rants and other assorted brownish crap, then why are you so surprised that your ideas are opposed?

Polonophobic abuse and anti-Polish propaganda

World's smallest violin, dude. But it's certainly okay for members of the American Polonia and very few (!) real Poles to be rabidly anti-Russian, anti-British, anti-American, anti-French, anti-German, anti-Israeli, ... , right? Free speech for the xenophobes. You sure know your rights, don't you? LOL!
OP Bieganski 15 | 775    
9 May 2016  #23

There is more hatred in PF than in ... Mein Kampf!

This remark is completely without merit. I find it libelous.

It is a glaring example of the concerns I have in needing to start this thread.

It is nothing more than an anti-Polish lie and propaganda spread by someone who isn't Polish, has absolutely no understanding of history, no genuine interest in anything Polish, but an impulsive willingness to smear PF's reputation and in turn Poles and Polonia.

Fortunately most members and guest know PF does a lot to promote discussion about Poland to the non-Polish speaking world.

Unfortunately though some members choose to misuse their privilege of being able to post here by expressing views which are completely misleading and insulting to Poles and Polonia.
Szalawa 4 | 254    
9 May 2016  #24

Really? Hahah. I don't think PF gets enough traffic for people to be paid or even commit their free time for trolling.

Don't ruin their sense of self importance, they must believe that they are fighting the forces of evil. To them they must shut down every last expression of opinion that does not agree with theirs, whether that be flagging this site for hate speech or whining to the moderators for censorship.

They claim Polonophobia does not exist yet are willing to defend the existence of islamophobia? and ever so often make contradictory statements. Only Polish people that adhere to their (forienger/expat) views are entitled to contribute on this forum? it's not happening, if you wish to do so, make your own forum.

It's all in there head, but what can you teach the disillusioned? they will continue their campaign until they manage to silence every last opinion that does not adhere to their own.

taking back western Ukraine, denying or belittling the Holocaust, xenophobic rants and other assorted brownish crap, then why are you so surprised that your ideas are opposed?

Perhaps if you take these ideas in the context they are written in you will understand. Western Ukraine was taken with blood on their hands, learn how they butchered and burned people alive, taken their ancestral land and then **** on their graves and deny it! I'm talking about people that adhere to the ideas of Bandera and not Ukrainians as a whole.I don't believe that Poland should invade Ukraine, but current relations will not suffice.

As long as you acknowledge the Polish people who also perished in the Holocausts, as some would like us to believe did not happen.

"xenophobic rants" on this site are often in response to the publications posted by certain individuals here that want to enforce their opinions of the world upon others
Nathans    
9 May 2016  #25

If you want others to agree with you (either through built-in censorship or through self-censorship), go to Facebook or Twitter. But there you won't gain true knowledge and mood of people around you. Desire of freedom, objective knowledge, and honesty evokes different kinds of emotions, and anger or hate are one of them. It's impossible to build something better with no pain and emotions.
OP Bieganski 15 | 775    
9 May 2016  #26

If this "diversity of opinions" of yours includes the dream of taking back western Ukraine, denying or belittling the Holocaust, xenophobic rants and other assorted brownish crap

As another PF member explained to you:

Perhaps if you take these ideas in the context they are written in you will understand.

Szalawa is absolutely correct. Poland and Ukraine's history is long and very intertwined. Some of it is cultured and some of it is fraught. Today there is an estimate of nearly half a million Ukrainians living in Poland and most are not of Polish descent. They would never have gone to Poland if they believed it was a hotbed of xenophobia like you would like to suggest. Poland has diplomatic relations with Ukraine and has no desire or need to annex it or any other country. Poland does however have a consistent and active policy in ensuring that the rights, interests and even repatriation of her Polish diaspora are give priority attention. And this is a political and social reality whether you like it or not. You are not Polish, you don't live in Poland, so there is no need for you to even comment about it anyway.

If members on PF want to discuss Polish-Ukrainian history and explain their position of seeing a need to reconcile past events that does not make them xenophobic brownshirts like you would like to suggest.

There may be some attention-seeking drive-by guest posters from time to time who will deny the Holocaust. But no regular member on PF has ever denied the atrocities Nazi Germany carried out on occupied Polish soil. However, the Holocaust is a matter which should be openly discussed and no it shouldn't be restricted to some shrilly PC approved narrative either. And it should absolutely be questioned and challenged when Polonophobic liars start agitating to have Poland blamed for the Holocaust in the hopes of wrongfully extract reparations while forever sullying Poland's good name and victim status.

But it's certainly okay for members of the American Polonia and very few (!) real Poles to be rabidly anti-Russian, anti-British, anti-American, anti-French, anti-German, anti-Israeli, ... , right?

I've read some of your many comments and don't see why you even post on PF and for as long as you have. You leave no doubt that for you being Polish only amounts to carrying a Polish passport and even then Poles should only find expression in celebrating anything and everything which isn't Polish. Thankfully you are not an arbiter for such matters.

Poles and Polonia are not "anti-whatever" in your litany of typical Polonophobic mischaracterization. However, I and many other Poles have experienced first hand and read posts from many Russians, British, Americans, French, Germans and Israelis who were extremely and unjustifiably anti-Polish. Free speech for the xenophobic Polonophobes! You sure know and actively express your rights, don't you?
TheOther 5 | 3,017    
9 May 2016  #27

Perhaps if you take these ideas in the context they are written in you will understand.

Fair enough, but the same would be true for the Germans for example who lost a lot of their territory after the war. These events happened 70+ years ago, Szalawa, and most of the people who lived through WW2 are long gone. Someone who's 80 or 90 years old can of course dream of his or her old home country, but someone who was born in the 1990's can not in my opinion.

anger or hate are one of them

In moderation, Nathans. Unfortunately, anger and hate on PF has crossed a certain line lately, and ... before you mention it ... I'm well aware of the fact that I did, too, on occasion.

Polonophobic abuse and anti-Polish propaganda

Examples, please. What you and a handful of PF members consider anti-Polish, might be seen as legit criticism or a valid point for discussion by most others.

If members on PF want to discuss Polish-Ukrainian history and explain their position of seeing a need to reconcile past events that does not make them xenophobic brownshirts

But if someone would dare to discuss the legality of Stalin giving German lands to Poland, that person would of course be a xenophobic brownshirt, right?

Poles and Polonia...

... are not the same. Born and raised in Poland? You're a Pole. Born in Poland, raised in the US? You're an American with (most likely) dual citizenship. Great great grandpa born in the German, Austrian-Hungarian or Russian Empire, you born in the USA 100 years later? You're an American and will never be a Pole. Simple as that.

don't see why you even post on PF

Explained to you and others on many occasions. Why are you here? Feeling the urge to defend the ultra right-wing cause? ;)
OP Bieganski 15 | 775    
9 May 2016  #28

Examples, please. What you and a handful of PF members consider anti-Polish, might be seen as legit criticism or a valid point for discussion by most others.

Go read my first post in this thread. I outlined plenty of examples. Only an unrepentant Polonophobe would attempt to characterize their personal hatred for and chronic and baseless criticism of Poles as having any legitimacy. However, anyone with commonsense and an aversion towards bigotry would not.

But if someone would dare to discuss the legality of Stalin giving German lands to Poland, that person would of course be a xenophobic brownshirt, right?

You are conveniently not mentioning that your Anglosphere representatives Churchill and Roosevelt were both at the table in Yalta. They are the ones who sold Poland down the river to be left to the devices of a psychotic bloodstained Bolshevik. But naturally for you Poles should be the ones apologizing to the Germans for what happened as a direct result of German aggression. Again, your remarks are yet another example of the anti-Polish propaganda spread by Polonophobes on the internet and in the real world.

... are not the same...Simple as that.

Only for an Anglocentric non-Pole like yourself. Your personal anti-Polish views are not shared by the Polish government or by Poles or by Polonia. It really is as simple as that.

Explained to you and others on many occasions.

No you haven't but the title of my thread certainly does.

Why are you here? Feeling the urge to defend the ultra right-wing cause?

To keep Polonophobes and anti-Polish propagandists like yourself at bay. Only agitating extremist trolls who come to PF to champion anything as long as it isn't Polish would start crying when they are called out on their unacceptable behavior.
TheOther 5 | 3,017    
9 May 2016  #29

I outlined plenty of examples.

Hogwash. Give me quotes of posts that YOU think are anti-Polish, and then tell me why.

But naturally for you Poles should be the ones apologizing to the Germans for what happened as a direct result of German aggression.

You're putting words into my mouth as usual. Where did I say anything about apologizing? I simply compared taking away territory from Poland with taking away territory from Germany, but you automatically interpreted it as something completely different. See, and that's exactly the problem with you "patriotic nationalists": you WANT to understand every remark and every critical view that doesn't agree with you as anti-Polish. That's just how you guys tick. Poland against the rest of the world. Us against them. The eternal victim. You remind me a little of the Tea Partiers here in the US. What they lack in the brains department, they compensate with blind patriotism/ nationalism.

Your personal anti-Polish views

So it's anti-Polish to say that you are not a Pole when the last person in your family that set foot on Polish soil lived 125 years ago? Are you serious? Oh, I forgot - that imaginary tie that connects you to the old country into all eternity. My apologies to the evangelicals amongst us, but may I remind you that we all come from Africa? Do you feel that strong bond with Kun*ta Kinte as well?

...are not shared by the Polish government or by Poles or by Polonia

By how many Poles exactly, and by how many members of Polonia? Or were you actually saying that my views are not shared by ultra right-wing nationalists such as yourself? Looks like, doesn't it? :)

No you haven't but the title of my thread certainly does.

Whatever floats your little boat, my friend...
Dougpol1 21 | 1,446    
9 May 2016  #30

while forever sullying Poland's good name and victim status.

The present Polish administration is "sullying Poland's good name" all by itself - and as for "victim status" - normal Poles don't think of themselves or their ancestors in that way any more. They are living for now and for the future.

And your next problem is....?



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