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PiS to impose blanket retail tax in Poland


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
15 Jan 2016 #31
1.49zl VIP lager

Dunno. Haven't had any for weeks. High class tipples like Russkoye and VIP are only for the Christmas-New Year's holidays. Maybe round about Easter....?
mafketis 34 | 12,504
15 Jan 2016 #32
Somone or something (courier, post, forwarding service) has to physically deliver the goods. In today's e-era there are ways to slap a tax on the goods the moment they enter Polish territory even if delivered by drone or pigeon post.

What part of "free movement of goods and services" do you not understand?

All the expat renegades are constantly thinkling up ways to circumvent the law and outfox the Polish state.

Well with the current government that's not that hard. Just apply basic economic ideas and voila! PiS's laws boomerang against the Polish public (especially hard against the PiS core voters).

they pretend to be Polish patriots. LOL: HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Polonius3 thinks that policies that have always failed in the past will now suddenly work because....... PiS!

How can you be a catholic if you believe in economic voodoo?
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
15 Jan 2016 #33
Just apply basic economic ideas and voila! PiS's laws boomerang against the Polish public (especially hard against the PiS core voters).

Indeed. I know what it's like in my local meat shop - these elderly women know the price of things, and if prices go up by 2% overnight, they're not going to be happy bunnies, especially when the owner of the meat shop tells them that it's a disgrace because of the government applying the extra tax.

Notice how Polonius hasn't once expressed any concern that a 2% tax is going to hit the poorest in society the most?
mafketis 34 | 12,504
15 Jan 2016 #34
Notice how Polonius hasn't once expressed any concern that a 2% tax is going to hit the poorest in society the most?

The ideologically pure at heart have no time to spare for real world considerations.... Old ladies cutting down their meat purchases are just so many eggs to be broken for the beautiful omelet of creating a Poland with a single strong party ruling unopposed and a church giving succor to the downtrodden.... hey didn't they raise holy hell to get rid of that system?
polishinvestor 1 | 362
15 Jan 2016 #35
Well S&P have just downgraded the zloty to BBB+ and placed the countrys sovereign rating on a negative outlook (from positive). Yes new government blamed.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
15 Jan 2016 #36
Indeed. It's pretty obvious from the way that they're now talking about 500zł per child from May that there's simply no money in the budget to pay for the plans, and the sudden change from 2% tax on large retailers to a blanket 2% tax shows that they know it as well.

If the złoty keeps falling, it will be nearly impossible to impose the tax on the retailers as the rise in prices will be far too much for the average Pole to stomach easily.

One thing - going from positive to negative is a pretty big jump for an established economy. Normally it goes to neutral first - which shows that the markets expect huge trouble financially here.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
15 Jan 2016 #37
"free movement of goods and services"

Free movement of goods does not prohibit national states from taxation. At least that's one area the Brussels Behemoth has yet to usurp.

Has the 2% tax been passed? If so, from when? I'm not familiar with it.
Harry
15 Jan 2016 #38
Free movement of goods does not prohibit national states from taxation.

It does if the taxation is imposed on goods entering Poland from other EU Member States. Surely even a PISed-up VIP can understand that.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
15 Jan 2016 #39
It would be an import tax and ruled illegal very quickly.

At the end of the day, this is just yet another tax introduced by PiS to harm small Polish family-run businesses while allowing big businesses to increase their profits further. For a so-called "patriotic" party, they seem hell bent on destroying small business in Poland while promoting large ones.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
15 Jan 2016 #40
Tax will be official next week they said. They had ten days which makes it a thursday or friday I believe. They had moved away from 250m2 to turnover but until it happens you never know. The swiss franc deal will see banks have to cough up on average about 1 point move on every loan on their books. So for arguments sake its about 4 now, so they will have to move to 3. Thats on average, some will be less some more. But those banks apparently get a 20% discount on bank tax.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
15 Jan 2016 #41
Tax will be official next week they said. They had ten days which makes it a thursday or friday I believe.

Friday will be most likely, because they can bury the bad news at the weekend.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
15 Jan 2016 #42
downgraded the zloty to BBB+

Just goes to show how much the post-commie KOD are harming the country. Were it not for all the hoopla, commotion, rabble-rosuing, Michnikite hysteria and Schetyna-style snitching, Poland would not have been attacked by the Gerrie-led Brussels Behemoth.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
15 Jan 2016 #43
KOD have nothing to do with a flawed budget that involves borrowing a lot of cash to pay for unfunded socialist promises.

The ratings agencies aren't stupid. They can see that PiS have no idea how to fund these promises, and the predictions are that Poland will break the 3% debt barrier this year. That means that Poland is fiscally reckless, and as a result, cannot be trusted.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
15 Jan 2016 #44
Polonius3 you all wanted solidarnosc as opposed to communism, else it wouldnt have happened. And that meant greater ties with Europe. Nobody forced you into it, you made the play yourselves.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
15 Jan 2016 #45
you all wanted solidarnosc

But nobody wanted a re-run of nomenklatura which we now see in the KOD camp.
Poles wanted and want a EU that's a voluntary federation of sovereign national homelands. They did not vote for a huge all-powerful Brussels bureaucracy that would tell countries how to run their internal affairs.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
15 Jan 2016 #46
But nobody wanted a re-run of nomenklatura which we now see in the KOD camp.

You keep trying to associate KOD with the nomeklatura, but it's PiS that have appointed endless ex-PZPR functionaries to top positions.

Poles wanted and want a EU that's a voluntary federation of sovereign national homelands.

They knew what was on offer. The European Union at that point was 10 years old and the consequences of Maastricht were well known. More to the point, the European Constitution had already been drafted by the time Poland voted in the referendum.

Anyway, this is irrelevant. The point is that PiS plan to force Polish retailers to pay 2% tax, ensuring that many small Polish businesses will go out of business and allowing the large foreign-owned chains to dominate the Polish retail market.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
15 Jan 2016 #47
endless ex-PZPR

You still haven't named 4 or 5, which to you is an "endless number".
Nomenklatura is a mental shortcut here to mean that actual PZPR party brass, generals, media types and others who teamed up with KOR types to create rthe roundtable and were able to retain their positions in the adminsration, worm their way into Balcerowicz's privatisation machine or use their PZPR contacts to go into business. That was possibłe because the collaborating Michniks, Mazoweickis and the whole UD and UW not only turned a blind eye to it all but actually helped them.

There's a big difference between a few appointees which every party has and an entrie class of post-PZPR dynasties, profesesional groups, supportive media, etc.

Those "successful" types, as you would doutless call them, are the nachapani. The rest of the nation who have effectively lived in PRL for the past 26 years are the wyjebani. (See Google Translate.) I'm surprised that such a "Pole" does not know his recent history.
pweeg
16 Jan 2016 #48
Nomenklatura

So you are pretty much describing the whole of Polish society. Which you apparently want to destroy.

Keep up the Marxist/Socialist policy's an you will get your wish.
WielkiPolak 58 | 1,024
16 Jan 2016 #49
I'm never in favour of a blanket tax, but it's still better than the PO system of taxing Polish businesses while giving foreign ones massive tax breaks.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
16 Jan 2016 #50
Why don't you describe to us how PO gave foreign companies "massive tax breaks", and quantify it by how PiS has stopped it?

This tax is a way to get money out of people's pockets and into the government's pocket. The large retailers will simply squeeze the 2% tax out of suppliers, while the tax will also go a long way to destroying small Polish businesses as they will be forced to pass on the 2% rise.

Basic economics seems to be a mystery to PiS supporters.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Jan 2016 #51
Why don't you describe

Why don't you describe how and why foreign banks and retail chains have not been paying their fair share of taxes to the Polish state. Also why the EU and local Petrus amd Michnikites didn't start screaming that Poland was illicitly giving preferential treatment to foreign business entities.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
16 Jan 2016 #52
Why don't you describe how and why foreign banks and retail chains have not been paying their fair share of taxes to the Polish state.

What is a "fair share", given that Polish companies also have relocated their headquarters abroad to benefit from more favourable tax regimes?

Anyway, Polonius, can you explain to us as a PiS supporter why PiS intend to tax Polish businesses and favour large foreign ones that are able to negotiate with suppliers/relocate abroad?
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Jan 2016 #53
favour large foreign ones

PF'S ANTI-POLISH WING IN ACTION

Where ther's a will there's a way. If the poltical will existed ways could be found to level the playing field so all players would have fair and equal opportunities. Maybe a ban on undercutting prices on basic foodstuffs so they would cost as much at Tesco as in the corenr shop. The technical details are for politicians to work out.

I know one thing for sure: PF's anti-Polish wing will always find reasons to keep Poland down. The EU forbids it or foreign captialists will find a way of circumventing any Polish control. If there's talk of increasing the volume of Polish cultrue on the airwaves, one of you will call Polsih culture crappy and equate it with disco-polo. Any attempt to keep foreign business domination in check will evoke a response such as Polish employers treat their workers worse. Even if that's the case, should Poland be eternally doomed to crappiness? The true patriot will step back, size up the situation and see what can be done to improve things. The self-proclaimed expat "patriots" may wildly flash their freshly acquired Polish passports but essentially will take the pro-Western, pro-corporate, pro-eurocrat and effectviely anti-Polish side in any row.

Just scroll back through their posts to see their cleverly worded excuses and explanations and it'll become quite clear.

Polish companies also have relocated

Delph has provided the freshest example by saying Polish firmm have also relocated abroad to get tax breaks. That may be true but let's first ask ourselves: How many Polish businesses have relocated abroad compared to the foreign ones exploiting Poland?
weeg
16 Jan 2016 #54
but it's still better than the PO system of taxing Polish businesses while giving foreign ones massive tax breaks

The reason you do it is to give Polish people well paid jobs. The whole outsourcing business in Krakow/Wroclaw etc provides hundreds of thousands of Poles TAX paying jobs. Half their income gives to the government. These jobs server foreign customers, there is NO reason for the companies to make the major investment in a far away country like Poland. Tax breaks are for a fixed break until a company is setup and the recover the costs.

Long term the companies stay and start paying tax (outsourcing isn't a for profit system. They pay wages and make no money to pay tax on).

Please go ahead and close down the thousands of foreign companies based in Poland. The jobs will goto their home countries and the jobs will be welcome back.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
16 Jan 2016 #55
Maybe a ban on undercutting prices on basic foodstuffs so they would cost as much at Tesco as in the corenr shop.

You've already had it explained to you why imposing price controls never works. If you impose such a ban, then Tesco will make far higher profits on basic foodstuffs which they will use to subsidise other offers - as Tesco will be paying less for the basic foodstuffs than the corner shop as they can negotiate far better terms and conditions. End result is the same - the local shop loses.

The true patriot will step back, size up the situation and see what can be done to improve things.

The true patriot would encourage Polish business through favourable tax regimes for new businesses, setting up new Special Economic Zones, subsidising rental costs for new small/specialist retailers, providing work experience programmes in Polish schools and much more. They wouldn't tax Polish retail businesses with an extra 2% tax. Furthermore, 2% tax means a price rise of 2%. That means less money to spend in Polish businesses.

How many Polish businesses have relocated abroad compared to the foreign ones exploiting Poland?

Plenty of them. The latest one is the owner of the 'reserved' chain, which has moved to Luxembourg.
polishinvestor 1 | 362
16 Jan 2016 #56
Long term the companies stay and start paying tax (outsourcing isn't a for profit system. They pay wages and make no money to pay tax on).

This is clearly seen in cities/towns that opertare under a stref ekonomiczna, a tax break offered to encourage companies to build factories/warehouses in their region. It provides local work for locals and the companies get favourable conditions to outsource. For towns where there had been nothing going on for years and couldnt compete with the bigger cities, it was a clear shot in the arm. Even if just 3 or 4 companies locate to such a town it means 2 or 3 thousand jobs in a city of 50,000 and that makes a big difference as those wages tend to be spend in the said town.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Jan 2016 #57
Plenty of them

Your plenty is how many? Like your "endless number of PZPR members".
I thought those posing to be financial experts like yourself deal in concrete figures not plenty, many, endless number, quite a few, a whole lot and similar vague generalities.

BTW, while you're at it pelase tell us how many foreign concerns operate in Poland, have set up shop, run retail chains or bought out Polish companies and manfuacturer their goods. Let's talk banks, media, breweries, distilleries, fast-food joints and food processors for starters.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
16 Jan 2016 #58
Just goes to show how much the post-commie KOD are harming the country.

True. The rating agencies are not as powerful as before the crisis but overall it is a very bad development. But now why did they downgrade the credit rating ? Because of "political instability" ! I doesn't matter that a number of protesting "democrats" is tiny, as our "KOD VIP" said, it is "enough to keep the world watching and talking". So the world is talking and that will cost us several billion this year alone. Just shows these feckers are ready to destroy the country just to get back to koryto.
OP delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
16 Jan 2016 #59
So the world is talking and that will cost us several billion this year alone.

Then do the right thing and stop destroying our democracy and economy for the sake of Kaczyński's thirst for undisputed power.

Pretty simple, really.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
16 Jan 2016 #60
Then do the right thing and stop destroying our democracy and economy

In the sick mind of you and your tiny crowd that means Kaczyński shooting himself in the head, Macierewicz setting himself alight, Michnik becoming president for life and Petru the new PM (despite 3% of real support, but what do they know damn peasants from Poland B) making Poland adopt EUR ASAP (without referendum, again what these peasants know, we "democrats" know better) all the farm land being sold to "foreign investors" together with PKP, forests, PZU and whatever is still not in owned by foreign corporations and governments. Then 0% tax forever for "foreign investors", instead tax the average guy to the point they will die out, then bring in "refugees" to fill the hole. If some feckers dare to protest, call them fascists and terrorists and bring in "EU army" to "stabilize" things.

Then at last, freedom and democracy. Junker, Martin Schultz, Merkel and "markets" will approve and praise.


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