Return PolishForums LIVE
  PolishForums Archive :
Archives - 2005-2009 / UK, Ireland  % width 150

Integrating Polish people into the British society


truebrit 3 | 196  
1 Oct 2008 /  #121
Being terribly honest, and as awful as it sounds, I gave up trying to make British friends a while back... It just gets on my wick when the media bangs on about intergrating! I've made plenty of friends from other nationalities, including Poles of course... and figure its the Brits missing out ;-)

I do understand this as a British person who has lived in several places I often find the foreign people or even British born children/grandchildren of immigrants far more welcoming than the native English.This can be quite isolating at times but also means the English tend to leave foreigners alone and not bother them(unlike some countries).
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
1 Oct 2008 /  #122
To be honest, between work, family and close friends / relationship I dont have time to go out searching for foreign friends ;-) I think when you're settled in your own life, you don't really have that need, it's not like Liza who had to make new friends because she was in a different country and I suppose living in a place like London you're bound to meet people from all nationalities. Maybe that's the reason the Brits don't mingle, they simply don't have the time.

Not sure why they'd be looking at her in the pub in a strange way and how did she know they were English?
sapphire 22 | 1,241  
1 Oct 2008 /  #123
Those who made points about British people not being too friendly to strangers are right, generally I dont think we are a naturally warm race at embracing people outside of our cultural norm and all the hatred stirred up by the media doesnt help the situation. However, there are 2 sides to this, why should we just be saying what can Britain do to help this situtation? It is also down to changing the attitudes of many of the Poles who come here who actually are quite happy living in their ex-pat communities and enjoy slagging off British people and their culture.. sorry to say this, but there are plenty of Polish people who dont want to integrate, or at least only a work or relationship level, they may accept invites from British people, but wait and see if such invites are reciprocated when it comes to introducing their new British friends into their Polish social circle. Of course I am generalising, but this is often the case. In many cases its down to language difficulties, but I also think its pretty difficult to break down the cultural barriers. So, yes the UK and British people could do more, but this isnt a one-way street and would it be worth the effort?
Kilkline 1 | 689  
1 Oct 2008 /  #124
Britain is quite a crowded, urban island so maybe foreigners arent as exotic to us as they would be to other nations that have a low level of immigration. The positive flipside to this is that we are less demanding of any foreigners that come here and will generally give them space to breathe and get on with things.
truebrit 3 | 196  
1 Oct 2008 /  #126
between work, family and close friends / relationship I dont have time to go out searching for foreign friends

You seem to have plenty of time to spend on Polishforums!
Liza 3 | 111  
1 Oct 2008 /  #127
Not sure why they'd be looking at her in the pub in a strange way and how did she know they were English?

I think it was I was trying to start a conversation with strangers... and as for English, it was their accent that gave it away when they were ordering at the bar.

So, yes the UK and British people could do more, but this isnt a one-way street and would it be worth the effort?

It is a two way street, and from my end, its as wide as the M4... At the other end it often does feel like a cul de sac/dead end. Its a shame as I think the UK would be a happier place if there could be more cross-cultural friendships. There will always be (unfortunately) immigrants that won't want to immerse themselves in British culture, or who are isolated from day to day life... Being forced to learn English and demonstrate a certain competence would help break down barriers.

Britain is quite a crowded, urban island so maybe foreigners arent as exotic to us as they would be to other nations that have a low level of immigration. The positive flipside to this is that we are less demanding of any foreigners that come here and will generally give them space to breathe and get on with things.

NZ has a relatively high level of immigration given its small population size; near enough to 2 in 5 NZ residents are immigrants, and in Auckland - the largest city - that increases to 1 in 3. The largest Polynesian city in the world is in Auckland, with a population of 230,000... Several years ago NZ had to pass a special law relating to pensions so Niueans could receive their NZ pension in Niue, as there were more Niueans in NZ than there were in Niue. So immigrants aren't exotic there either... Also I come from a family of immigrants myself.

That said, currently the Polish population stands at just 2,000; however this may change as we recently began a working holiday visa scheme with Poland.
Mister H 11 | 761  
1 Oct 2008 /  #128
Being forced to learn English and demonstrate a certain competence would help break down barriers.

I've never understood why this has never been the case and successive British Governments have ignored this and other problems raised by uncontrolled immigration. It's been the elephant in the room for years.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
1 Oct 2008 /  #129
Those darned elephants :) R u the son of Alf Garnett, Mr H? Just kidding, I see what u r trying to say. We criticise the Chinese for sweeping problems under the carpet and we don't take the bull by the horns either.
sapphire 22 | 1,241  
2 Oct 2008 /  #130
however this may change as we recently began a working holiday visa scheme with Poland.

there we go.. the answer to the UK's immigration problems. Ship all the Poles to NZ on a one-way ticket! :)
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
2 Oct 2008 /  #131
You seem to have plenty of time to spend on Polishforums!

Im only here in the day when Im at work :)

I think it was I was trying to start a conversation with strangers...

Some people just prefer to stick to their own groups, I think the English are quite good when they're abroad at striking up conversation with other nationalities, just not in their local pub...

Its a shame as I think the UK would be a happier place if there could be more cross-cultural friendships.

Im sure there are a lot of cross cultural friendships and I think England is a happy place, it's just getting a bit over crowded Liza and people are starting to notice and that's what is causing the tension. Did you know that in Bradford alone there are circa. 20,000 arranged marriages (partners coming from overseas) that's another 20,000 people a year arriving in Bradford every year..do you seriously think that we can continue on such a scale? Anyway my mate emmigrates to NZ in a few weeks so there's another foreigner to add to NZ :)
Mister H 11 | 761  
2 Oct 2008 /  #132
Those darned elephants :) R u the son of Alf Garnett, Mr H? Just kidding, I see what u r trying to say. We criticise the Chinese for sweeping problems under the carpet and we don't take the bull by the horns either.

Thanks, I'm glad you (and hopefully others) see my point.

I always refer to any problems I have with immigration as being the "uncontrolled immigration" we have now and certainly don't have an issue with immigration.

Im sure there are a lot of cross cultural friendships and I think England is a happy place, it's just getting a bit over crowded Liza and people are starting to notice and that's what is causing the tension. Did you know that in Bradford alone there are circa. 20,000 arranged marriages (partners coming from overseas) that's another 20,000 people a year arriving in Bradford every year..do you seriously think that we can continue on such a scale? Anyway my mate emmigrates to NZ in a few weeks so there's another foreigner to add to NZ :)

The issue has always been a numbers game and, for reasons best known to themselves, successive Governments just don't seem to want to deal with it.

Yes there are a lot of mixed friendships and relationships going on, but the crucial thing I notice where I live (Brighton) and work (Crawley) is the numbers of different groups of people who don't seem to get involved with people from another race/culture. I can walk around Crawley on a typical lunchtime and you see so many different races of people, but in the main they're not mixing and are just sticking with their own.

It's asians in groups of other asians, black people in groups of other black people and white english people in groups of other white english people etc.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
2 Oct 2008 /  #133
Yeah, the government is laissez-faire when it suits itself to be.
Liza 3 | 111  
2 Oct 2008 /  #134
Liza:

however this may change as we recently began a working holiday visa scheme with Poland.

there we go.. the answer to the UK's immigration problems. Ship all the Poles to NZ on a one-way ticket! :)

They'll fit in fine... along with the Brits, the South Africans, the Indians, the Chinese, and apparently now lots of Burmese. Nothing like variety... :-)

Yes there are a lot of mixed friendships and relationships going on, but the crucial thing I notice where I live (Brighton) and work (Crawley) is the numbers of different groups of people who don't seem to get involved with people from another race/culture. I can walk around Crawley on a typical lunchtime and you see so many different races of people, but in the main they're not mixing and are just sticking with their own.

It's asians in groups of other asians, black people in groups of other black people and white english people in groups of other white english people etc.

Unfortunately while there are a lot, there isn't enough... From my own casual observations here in London, most people have 90% their own race, 10% (or less) from others. Considering the ethnic makeup in London, that means an awful lot are sticking to their own kind.

Did you know that in Bradford alone there are circa. 20,000 arranged marriages (partners coming from overseas) that's another 20,000 people a year arriving in Bradford every year..do you seriously think that we can continue on such a scale? Anyway my mate emmigrates to NZ in a few weeks so there's another foreigner to add to NZ :)

One of the things I do find interesting about the Daily Mail's website, is many complaining are immigrants themselves.. Often writing 'Stop Immigration' Joe Bloggs Ex-Pat. Somehow I find that hypocritical. For instance last year 53,000 Brits moved to New Zealand; 7,000 Kiwis moved to the UK. I understand that the UK has a finite amount of space, however from my own experience Poles generally come to the UK, do their best (mostly) to learn English, work hard, earn money and either settle or leave. Some other ethnic groups come here, don't bother to learn English, claim refugee status or some other category, and get benefits and council house. Simple question; which immigrant do you choose - the hard working one or the lazy bum? Now here's the second question, which immigrant suffers the media bashing? No, not the obvious one, but instead the hard working immigrant. Why? Because he's white. If you bash the lazy bum, the PC brigade are going to call you racist.
Mister H 11 | 761  
2 Oct 2008 /  #135
Simple question; which immigrant do you choose - the hard working one or the lazy bum? Now here's the second question, which immigrant suffers the media bashing? No, not the obvious one, but instead the hard working immigrant. Why? Because he's white. If you bash the lazy bum, the PC brigade are going to call you racist.

Just because the media isn't picking on other immigrant groups doesn't mean that they're getting an easy ride.
Siegfried 1 | 100  
6 Oct 2008 /  #136
well, I don't understand what are british expectations towards poles...

here are the brilliant daily mail thoughts:

a) we are lowering the wages.
this is good point but on the other hand we tak jobs nobody else wants to do - farming, waiting, etc.

b) we are taking-over british jobs, so nationals are unemployed
take a look at the first point, plus I recently had conversation with my english work mates - they told me that it's not like english people are moaning - it's another foreigners - australians etc who lost their jobs because we are cheaper and more efficient. it's just the business

c) we are taking a lot of benefits
I never took a single penny. on the other hand: how much can I gaet for a child weekly? is it big money? and how much taxes do we pay? let's say it's 1 000 000 poles in uk, average salary 24k. please count the taxes + living costs.

d) we are not integrating well
oh come on... I think poles integrate very well, I have english friends who actually call me to go out ;) I like english breakfast ;) most of poles learn english (with different results but still)

e) now we will take all the money and go home
hmm.... what should we do? should we left money here? account numbers please ;)

So, I am average Pole here in uk. What England can offer me?
-health care?
-low living costs?
-cheap housing?
-great pound to zloty ratio? (hehehehe)
-safety?
-big salaries?
-nice chicks?
-good food?
-newspaper bashing?

you will soon see a lot of poles going back home or moving somewhere else. I can bet you won't miss us :>
szarlotka 8 | 2,208  
6 Oct 2008 /  #137
I can bet you won't miss us :>

Not true, at least not for me.

Like the post though. Made me chuckle even when I agreed with a lot of what you were saying.
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
6 Oct 2008 /  #138
well, I don't understand what are british expectations towards poles...

Me personally, none.

nice chicks?

Shouldn't that be swans? ;-)

-good food?

You already said you like the breakfast :( this is obviously a man thing!

I can bet you won't miss us :>

Never be to sure about that.
Siegfried 1 | 100  
6 Oct 2008 /  #139
ha, that was a good one! (english breakfast)
when I first came here, I couldn't look at it, but then... miracle... :D

to be honest english food is not so bad, you have to get used to it. but it's not the thing I will miss about uk ;)

I will miss double deckers and tube. :D
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
6 Oct 2008 /  #140
to be honest english food is not so bad

to be honest, I doubt you have eaten proper english food, my ex was Hungarian and he complained all the time about English food until he came to mine for dinner and I cooked some traditional stuff for him :)
a_jacobs49 1 | 11  
14 Oct 2008 /  #141
PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWS ON POLISH / FOREIGN MIGRANT WORKERS . MY MOTHER CAME TO UK 1953 ON A 2 YEAR WORK PERMIT TO WORK IN A FACTORY SO MIGRANTS COMING OVER IS NOT NEW . BUT YES I AGREE SINCE JOINING THE EU THE FLOOD GATES HAVE OPENED . MY MOTHER STAYED IN UK GOT MARRIED TO A POLE . GOT MARRIED HAD 4 KIDS . BUT I CAN HONESTLY SAY WE HAVE NOT BEEN A BURDEN ON SOCIETY HERE MY MOTHER WORKED ALL HER LIFE NEVER CLAIMED BENEFITS HAD EVEN FULL TIME JOB AND 2 PART TIME JOBS AND RAISED 4 KIDS, WE ALL 4 OF US NOW IN OUR 40S HAVE ALSO CONTRIBUTED TO THE SYSTEM WE ALL WORK FULL TIME AND HAVE RAISED OUR FAMILIES WILST TO WORKING, MY MOTHER CAME FROM AUSTRIA AND SHE CAME OVER HERE FOR A BETTER LIFE FROM POVERTY SHE WAS RAISED IN A POOR HOUSE . SO I CANNOT BLAME ANYONE WANTING TO MOVE COUNTRY ANY COUNTRY FOR A BETTER LIFE YOU HAVE ONLY 1 LIFE AND NEED TO MAKE THE MOST OF IT COS LIFE IS SO SHORT . THE UK IS FULL OF FOREIGNERS FROM ALL OVER WORLD THE BRITISH WAY OF LIFE IS CHANGING MAY BE NOT FOR THE GOOD, BUT NOTHING CAN STAY THE SAME . MY POINT IS THERE ARE GOOD AND BAD IN NOMATTER WHAT RACE YOU ARE AFTER ALL BRTAIN FROM THE AGES HAS CHANGED ANGLO SAXON , ROMAN, SO JONNY FOREINER IS NOT NEW EMBRACE THE CHANGE. BUT I DO AGREE THAT FOREIGNERS WHO COMMIT A BAD CRIME SHOULD BE DEPORTED AND BANNED FROM UK
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
14 Oct 2008 /  #142
FOREIGNERS WHO COMMIT A BAD CRIME SHOULD BE DEPORTED AND BANNED FROM UK

How about those who commit good crimes?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
14 Oct 2008 /  #143
What about those non-foreigners who commit bad crimes in the UK, i.e UK citizens. We don't want them in our country either so why not ship them out to some distant land?
Kilkline 1 | 689  
14 Oct 2008 /  #144
a) we are lowering the wages.
this is good point but on the other hand we tak jobs nobody else wants to do - farming, waiting, etc.

...and building work primarily. Its overstating it to say that no one wants to do these jobs as I'm sure the majority of farmers, waiters and builders are not Polish. And for those that work in these areas salaries will inevitably drop as labour supply increases so dramatically. Its no skin off my nose though as British and Irish builders used to take the p1ss if you hired them. Total kunts some of them.
a_jacobs49 1 | 11  
14 Oct 2008 /  #145
THINK I NEED TO CORRECT MYSELF . WHEN I MEAN DEPORT FOREINERS WHO COMMIT A CRIME IN UK I MEANT THOSE ON WORK PERMIT SHORT TERM THE PRISONS ARE FULL SO SAVE MONEY AND DEPORT OFFENDERS BACK HOME AND I MEAN CUSTODIAL SENTANCE CRIME .
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
14 Oct 2008 /  #146
Aha, ok, good point. Please take off ur caps lock
a_jacobs49 1 | 11  
14 Oct 2008 /  #147
in the UK every one moans about there is too many poles or pakis or afghans over here but has anyone rearly noticed that even tho we are part of EU that there are no spanish living over here and french strange when UK people are living in abundance in France and Spain . not that you can blaim them from wanting to laeve France or Spain . But my point being we have over 29 other countries here but i aint come across French or Spanish people living here in UK , maybe not in North Wales eh !
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
14 Oct 2008 /  #148
that there are no spanish living over here and french

There are quite a few Spaniards and French people living in the UK and quite a few Italians, plus Greeks...they just don't come in the numbers that Poles or people from the sub-contitents come from and they seem to integrate into British society more, same as those of your mothers generation that arrived in the 40s and 50s.
grahambarb - | 21  
15 Oct 2008 /  #149
it's crazy even politicians are saying british ppl are coming out of work at an extreme rate and having to compete with poles in their own country for very little work , this not only against the well being of your own electorate ie the british public it's complete insanity, the feeling is pull out of the EU AND NOT TO SIGN THE LISBON TREATY THAT'S WHY WE WERE DENIED A REFERENDUM , the conservatives have promised a referendum even though i'm no tory i believe labour are traitors and have totally let down their working class core voters , yes if we had the people who rule today we would never had a labour party , a proper decent party
Svenski 1 | 159  
15 Oct 2008 /  #150
We don't want them in our country either so why not ship them out to some distant land?

Ummmm.. perhaps to Australia......again..?

Archives - 2005-2009 / UK, Ireland / Integrating Polish people into the British societyArchived