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Integrating Polish people into the British society


ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
12 Sep 2008 /  #61
Anyway, I think that I was reading somewhere that this government likes giving benefits to some people to keep them quiet?

I'm not sure that, that is true, but if you're reading that and you live in Poland, I can understand why some of your less desireable people want to move to the UK.

I am not convinced about channel4 programme either. BBC shows twisted picture of British lazy people on benefits. Channel 4 shows one-sided wievs of some British workers saying that immigrants take their job. But....they were not convincing to me either- sort of people who demand, demand...more money, longer breaks...and O! painful back so will have to go on sick leave.....

Thank you Iwonka for having an open mind.

Reforms of the benefit system are on their way, it has been open to abuse by those who know how to "work" the systemn for quite some time, unfortunately those who really need it, often go without.
Daisy 3 | 1,225  
12 Sep 2008 /  #62
it has been open to abuse by those who know how to "work" the systemn for quite some time, unfortunately those who really need it, often go without.

And that's the problem! genuine people get bogged down in a mire of conflicting rules and bureaucracy. Professional scroungers know they system better than the staff that process their claims.
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
12 Sep 2008 /  #63
Yeah, but how would you know which drug it was that killed them?

who cares? - there are plenty more to start testing on again :)
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
12 Sep 2008 /  #64
He recently had an agreement whereby he was going to refurbish a whole house - with a profit of £5000 (cheap for 6 months work), but was cut off at the last moment as the owner of the house found 3 Polish workers to do it to for less than £1000 profit. £333 each for 6 months work? Damn. And this is an ongoing trend in many hands on jobs.

333 for 6 months job? They would earn the same in two weeks working in a McDonalds restaurant. Are you sure your family member didn't exaggerate a little bit?
JaeTheProducer 3 | 33  
12 Sep 2008 /  #65
No. I was there. I used to be a small time handyman.
Mister H 11 | 761  
12 Sep 2008 /  #66
Yes, i happened to see this. That guy with the Stella was a prick, and probably doesn't even look for a job. But i do believe this was on BBC1, Yes? The exact reason why the programme was shot like that - to make all foreigners look like they are the hardest workers around and the young British folks are all lazy and pissheads. This is the BBC for you.

There was a very similar programme running on Channel 4 during the immigration season thing they had going on. In my opinion, that offered much more of an insight into how a standard actual-working, working-class Brit feels about Eastern European immigrants. Channel 4 has a bit more balls than the lovers of anything foriegn - BBC.

Is the Channel 4 programme the one with the woman from Somalia who said that the £35k she gets a year in benefits for her and her five kids "wasn't enough" ?

Her English was so bad, they had to put up subtitles.

It was a good documentary, but like all the others it's all questions and no answers.

Any documentary maker has his/her own agenda and it seems to me that too many of them like to go down the root of the "lazy British" being saved from awful jobs by hardworking foreigners.

They shouldn't waste their time filming out in the streets during the day on the look-out for mouthy benefit scroungers, they should try instead between 5-7pm outside any major train station and get people on their way home from work.

I reckon it would be the same frustration about immigration, but without "the British don't want to work" tag.

Hmmm, well, you're entitled to your opinion, but i still feel the Channel 4 documentary had a more British outlook on the issue rather the foreign one looking in. And to touch on a point that MisterH made, i do agree that foreign workers have driven down wages of British workers. I happen to have a family member who has been 'doing up' houses for over 25 years. He recently had an agreement whereby he was going to refurbish a whole house - with a profit of £5000 (cheap for 6 months work), but was cut off at the last moment as the owner of the house found 3 Polish workers to do it to for less than £1000 profit. £333 each for 6 months work? Damn. And this is an ongoing trend in many hands on jobs.

Nothing like being shat on by your own side.
10iwonka10 - | 395  
13 Sep 2008 /  #67
10iwonka10:
Anyway, I think that I was reading somewhere that this government likes giving benefits to some people to keep them quiet?

I'm not sure that, that is true, but if you're reading that and you live in Poland, I can understand why some of your less desireable people want to move to the UK.

I live in England and I think that I read it somewhere here.....
Liza 3 | 111  
27 Sep 2008 /  #68
Is the Channel 4 programme the one with the woman from Somalia who said that the £35k she gets a year in benefits for her and her five kids "wasn't enough" ?

Her English was so bad, they had to put up subtitles.

It was a good documentary, but like all the others it's all questions and no answer

I think that is the biggest problem in the UK; the number of immigrants who come here, wrongly or rightly, and sit on benefits. Ok there are some from within the EU who do claim, and due to EU laws, they can, so I'm going to exclude them from my theory. So the remaining group should not be allowed to claim a benefit until they have made a minimum contribution to the UK (I'm guessing a percentage), and have a minimum no-claim period of around 5 - 7 years. The same documentary showed the number of state assitance claims by ethnic group, and it was something like 45% for Somalians, closely followed by most other Asian ethnic groups.

I'm a non EU immigrant (cue the abuse), but one of the things I was made fully aware of was 'No recourse to public funds'; fair enough. If I want to be here, I have to support myself through work. If I can't support myself, bugger off home.

If you removed foreigners claiming assistance (from outside the EU), then you would remove about 800,000 people off the benefits list. Firstly you'd save around - oh God someone help me out on the figures as I dont know the rates of State Assistance (as a non-claimant) - a year.

Right.. next step. These newly liberalised folk are going to have two options; get off their backsides and get a job. Ok, good start. Alternatively if they won't work, they'll either starve to death (no necessarily a bad thing if they're going to cost the British tax payer a million quid in healthcare, housing, benefits etc in their lifetime), or they'll sod off home to their own country. If they do that, waiting lists will go down for healthcare and housing, there will be a smaller population (British people very happy!), and hell the government will have the savings from benefit bill. I'd like to hope they'll spend it on the usual priority things like healthcare, housing, education, and helping those less fortunate, but you and I both know they're going to use it to prop up another failing bank or on their expenses.

Its probably a good thing that a) I'm only here for five years and b) I'll never be allowed to run for government. Then again, as an immigrant, the British public would be unlikely to vote for me anyway...
Bartolome 2 | 1,085  
27 Sep 2008 /  #69
All well, but 'human rights' campaigners and illegals' lobbies won't allow it to happen. PC status quo has to be maintained after all. And now British taxpayers have to bail out banks that go bust due to the recession. As always, the rich will remain rich, and the poor will become even more poor.
noimmigration  
27 Sep 2008 /  #70
Liza are you a white immigrant or are you the colour of mud ?
Liza 3 | 111  
27 Sep 2008 /  #71
All well, but 'human rights' campaigners and illegals' lobbies won't allow it to happen. PC status quo has to be maintained after all.

See that I don't understand... If the Human Rights and Illegals Lobbies are that worried about these people, let them support the bludgers, not anyone else.

Liza are you a white immigrant or are you the colour of mud ?

Despite the best efforts of fake tan. I remain white. But if it helps, half of my family are immigrants to my own country, and about a third are mixed race. However my country doesn't allow you to claim benefits until you're made a satisfactory contribution - unless you're from selected countries, much like the EU system.

However I will also point out that the largest group of EU claimants of state assistance is the Portugese.
wiesiek 1 | 36  
27 Sep 2008 /  #72
We've been totally f**ked over by this Government and they won't be doing anything anytime soon to change put it right.

Then why did the nation vote them back in
Daisy 3 | 1,225  
27 Sep 2008 /  #73
The first past the post system means you can get in without the majority voting for you. You just need more votes than the other parties individually, not more than the rest combined. That's why it's just a 2 horse race between the Tories and Labour, neither of whom will ever change the voting system, as it would reduce their chances of power....Plus the alternative, is no alternative, just another bunch of self interested career politicians.
wiesiek 1 | 36  
27 Sep 2008 /  #74
But whose fault is that, isnt it the same system that has been been in existance for many years and the same system that was in force when Britian was Great and people are wishing for the old days. As for the self interested career politicians, when has it been any different. If the will of the people is to change things then people should vote for change. Or are they not bothered enough. If it is the latter then why complain, you get what you deserve.
Mister H 11 | 761  
27 Sep 2008 /  #75
I'm a non EU immigrant (cue the abuse), but one of the things I was made fully aware of was 'No recourse to public funds'; fair enough. If I want to be here, I have to support myself through work. If I can't support myself, bugger off home.

Ahhhhh, I hope you don't get any abuse for that. Where abouts are you from if I can ask ?

If you removed foreigners claiming assistance (from outside the EU), then you would remove about 800,000 people off the benefits list. Firstly you'd save around - oh God someone help me out on the figures as I dont know the rates of State Assistance (as a non-claimant) - a year.

The current Government almost encourage benefit dependancy and it's one of the biggest problems that we have today. I think they like a population that's so demotivated and hacked off with EACH OTHER as it makes us forget whose fault it really is.

Liza are you a white immigrant or are you the colour of mud ?

I take it the answer will help you decide if you like Liza or not. You're such a nasty piece of work, noimmigration.

Then why did the nation vote them back in

The voting system renders it a two party state, which made it a choice between Tony Blair and Michael Howard. At the time, Tony Blair seemed the best of a bad bunch.
Daisy 3 | 1,225  
27 Sep 2008 /  #76
isnt it the same system that has been been in existance for many years and the same system that was in force when Britian was Great and people are wishing for the old days

And who would these people be exactly? The ruling classes?

I take it the answer will help you decide if you like Liza or not. You're such a nasty piece of work, noimmigration.

Then there is the added problem that the likes of Noimmigration get to vote.

Tony Blair seemed the best of a bad bunch.

Or least worst
wiesiek 1 | 36  
27 Sep 2008 /  #77
wiesiek:
isnt it the same system that has been been in existance for many years and the same system that was in force when Britian was Great and people are wishing for the old days

And who would these people be exactly? The ruling classes?

I thought it was person one vote. Or does that mean there are more of the ruling classes than the rest.
Daisy 3 | 1,225  
27 Sep 2008 /  #78
Or does that mean there are more of the ruling classes than the rest.

I wanted to know who these people are who are wishing for the 'old days'

I thought it was person one vote

If someone is living in a 'safe seat' constituency, their vote doesn't really count if they are voting for the 'other' party. That's why so many people vote tactically rather than for the party they would prefer, as it would be a wasted vote.
Liza 3 | 111  
27 Sep 2008 /  #79
Ahhhhh, I hope you don't get any abuse for that. Where abouts are you from if I can ask ?

New Zealand... as the boyfriend says, the end of the earth. However, given the heavy level of immigration in NZ, comparable to the UK in some ways.

noimmigration:

Liza are you a white immigrant or are you the colour of mud ?

I take it the answer will help you decide if you like Liza or not. You're such a nasty piece of work, noimmigration.

Its ok, now that he knows I'm non-British, I'll still be on his hit list.

The voting system renders it a two party state, which made it a choice between Tony Blair and Michael Howard. At the time, Tony Blair seemed the best of a bad bunch.

The First Past the Post system is flawed... however we have a double system in NZ, and I'm not necesarily sure that its brought more balance to government, although we have passed some interesting legislation in the last few years.
wiesiek 1 | 36  
27 Sep 2008 /  #80
The voting system renders it a two party state, which made it a choice between Tony Blair and Michael Howard. At the time, Tony Blair seemed the best of a bad bunch.

But it was a British General election, it was not a everybody else's fault general election. It was not as if you never had the choice to form a British government.

It was not the Dutch or Germans or the Poles that put in Mr Blair.

The same can be said that the Poles put in Kaczynski, you get what you deserve
szkotja2007 27 | 1,498  
27 Sep 2008 /  #81
For British: in your opinion what knowledge about the UK, skills and attitudes Poles should have so that they can quicker become the valued citizens?

The first thing they should know is that Britain is made up of different countries with differing attitudes and cultures.
Many of the opinions expressed in this thread apply to England and may not be as readily applicable to the other Nations. For example, Scotland has very different demographics to England regarding immigration, until last year, Scotlands population was declining.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
27 Sep 2008 /  #82
Integration operates on different levels, that is the key. It's a very full process. Speaking for Scotland, we have many skills-based industries which could use a fresh infusion of new ideas. I fear that many Poles may fall by the wayside as today's job market seems to be about finding the best candidate for any position. The lack of fluency in English may act against them. Even advanced students make mistakes which wouldn't impress other companies in formal letters.

At the housing level, certain steps have been taken to ensure that they are suitably housed, or not so suitably sometimes.

At the community level, there are free English courses offered by kind individuals and groups. Also, religious needs are catered for by including willing participants in church events.

Finally, the establishment of various Polish outlets has provided a home from home kinda feeling. They have access to their much cherished bread and other culinary delights.

I just hope that my countrymen behave themselves and don't become needlessly hostile. The Scots are an accommodating bunch for the most part.
krakow1 3 | 55  
27 Sep 2008 /  #83
You have never lived outside of your own country have you? Anyone can preach such ideals, whilst sitting in a "lazy boy", comfortable in the knowledge that the state will bail you out if it all goes" pear shaped". Get real and get a life outside your comfort zone.
Mister H 11 | 761  
27 Sep 2008 /  #84
At the community level, there are free English courses offered by kind individuals and groups.

There's no such thing as a free lunch. The money for these courses comes from somewhere, mainly local Government budgets I guess. This means there is less to spend on other things, that many locals might regard as just as important.

People who come here without learning enough English first should pay for their own lessons.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
27 Sep 2008 /  #85
I agree that they should pay for their own lessons but that doesn't change the fact that free courses FOR THEM exist. OK, maybe some of their tax goes towards it.

It's a sign that the British govt believes they are a worthy investment.
Mister H 11 | 761  
27 Sep 2008 /  #86
It's a sign that the British govt believes they are a worthy investment.

I take it as more of a sign that trendy Labour councils like to spend their council tax revenue on English courses for foreigners, while cutting the bin-rounds to once a fortnight etc.

This is as well as providing their literature in nine other languages (thanks for that Brighton & Hove City Council), which is probably one of the reasons why people don't go on the courses anyway.

If they had the money to spare, then fair enough, but they don't.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
27 Sep 2008 /  #87
I agree. U have to balance and juggle priorities. Cutting the bin rounds to once a fortnight is hardly acceptable. And Brits, as the primary taxpayers, should come first.

However, money seems to pop up in strange places. We never truly know just how much is in circulation. Hard factual statistics are hard to come by.

I think the fact remains that Britain still has a culture where top brass earn way too much and mismanage local govt funds. Sad but true!!
krakow1 3 | 55  
27 Sep 2008 /  #88
I don't want to work with a bunch of foreigners!" The film crew went and found some lazy chav with bling from Argos and a chip on his shoulder, rather than finding someone with a brain.

"Oh dear! Mister H don't be so personal when it comes to describing yourself! have some respect, if you can spell that word of course.

Please note that Mister H was quoting from another source and used " " marks to do so.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
27 Sep 2008 /  #89
Variety is the spice of life
Mister H 11 | 761  
27 Sep 2008 /  #90
"Oh dear! Mister H don't be so personal when it comes to describing yourself! have some respect, if you can spell that word of course.

If you re-read the post you will see I was quoting from the guy on the documentary.

I would never say something like that !

This was what I posted:

I think I saw that programme, if it's the same one, the bloke you refer to went onto say something like:

"I don't want to work with a bunch of foreigners!" The film crew went and found some lazy chav with bling from Argos and a chip on his shoulder, rather than finding someone with a brain.

These TV programmes often have their own agenda and they feature the people who will help prove their point.

You owe me an apology, Karakow1 !!!

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