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Integrating Polish people into the British society


Mister H 11 | 761  
31 Aug 2008 /  #31
Considering half the NHS is based on immagrant employees cause good old Brits cant be arsed working for minimum wage, that arguement has feck all basis.

The issue of immagration hasnt been around for only 18 months, its been there for many years. Us Brits complain they are taking advantage of the system, maybe its us who are too lazy, unwilling to take advantage ourselves.

It doesn't help that the minimum wage isn't enough to actually live on, but the argument that the British are lazy is just one the media like to hype up to make us the problem.

I wasn't saying that the immigration issue has only been around for 18 months, more that the issue of so many coming in from Poland and other new countries to the EU is a very recent problem. It wasn't around so much at the time of the last election, if it had been to this extent, I doubt Tony Blair would have been re-elected.
Arise_St_George 9 | 419  
31 Aug 2008 /  #32
Why should we work for minimum wage. If you speak fluent English like we Brits do then you can find a job on much more than the minimum wage in no time.
dtaylor 9 | 823  
31 Aug 2008 /  #33
but the argument that the British are lazy is just one the media

I dont think so, for every job in the NHS i had to fill which was of minimum wage, i had maybe only 2 brits applying, most of the time these people could hardly walk let alone work. So i would have a simple choice most of the time, hire a person who had many many jobs before, quitting because they didnt get what they want or were fired bacause they were too "wasted" to work, or hire someone from Poland who could work steady, not complain all day about money, and didnt spend every monday phoning in sick!

Why should we work for minimum wage. If you speak fluent English like we Brits do then you can find a job on much more than the minimum wage in no time.

Why not? are you trying to tell me that speaking your mother tounge means your entitled to a job that pays huge amounts of money?
Misty 5 | 144  
31 Aug 2008 /  #34
Why is it that every time "Polish people" and "Britain" are mentioned in the one sentence it turns into a discussion/moan about immigration?

Fair enough, there are immigration concerns and, Mister H, you have written to your local MP and you have had no satisfaction over that. What else did you do?

I have Polish friends that have every intention of staying here and they are working hard so that in the future they will be able to give a better contribution to Britain. Probably a better contribution than some Brits are willing to give. My Polish friends are going through college, then university, one of them is working his way through the ranks in the kitchen where he works. It looks like he'll go to college next year to begin getting qualifications in the cookery business. He loves it. Not bad for someone who started as a kitchen porter.

Not all Polish people will stay here. A vast majority will actually head home to Poland in the next few years and then we might be struggling. Who'll take on the low-paid, menial jobs? Please answer me that one because it won't be the Brits. They wouldn't take the jobs before so why would they take them after?

I am sick to the back teeth about people moaning about Polish people in this country. Thread after thread after thread moaning about immigration issues here clears absolutely nothing up, it just annoys people and gives a negative attitude about Britain.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
1 Sep 2008 /  #35
I am sick to the back teeth about people moaning about Polish people in this country. Thread after thread after thread moaning about immigration issues here clears absolutely nothing up, it just annoys people and gives a negative attitude about Britain.

If you think that is bad there, think of what it is like here, in Poland. Poland is just filled with Polish people. I mean I can't even walk down the street without bumping into several Poles, it is ridiculous but yet somehow it works, people are going to work and shopping etc..:)
espana 17 | 932  
1 Sep 2008 /  #36
it is impossible integrate this people , if this people are always thinking in poland.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
1 Sep 2008 /  #37
Ha ha ha, We could sentenced them to one year of "Reeducaton Through Labour" like in China. Although this would further undercut the locals . Hhhmmm it is a tricky one...

I am of course just kidding, the way I see it is that most Polish people did not go to Ireland for the weather or the craic, they went to make money, save and move back to Poland. Most will probably not return but rather make lives for themselves somewhere else other than Poland.

Polish people should of course learn the language in which they are going to live, so this might be the first step.
I must say, that when I first came to Poland 6 years ago, very very few people spoke English now that there is a benefit in it, practically everyone who can learn, does.

Being able to speak the language is not everything I know but it would certainly clear up a lot of the miscommunication.
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
1 Sep 2008 /  #38
what do you think should change/ improve/ be implemented in the UK's city councils, job centre plus, local governmental bodies, etc.

Why should we change systems? The systems are put in place by British primarily for British people, No?

It doesn't help that the minimum wage isn't enough to actually live on,

35 hours per week on minimum wage is not enough to live on for a normal British person living on their own - you'd have to work circa. 60 hours a week to have any kind of life, where as if you share with several people Im sure minimum wage is quite alright, but what British person wants to share a flat with 7 other people?
10iwonka10 - | 395  
1 Sep 2008 /  #39
Asking similar question. How do British who emigrate in big numbers to Spain and France integrate in those Societies...?
noimmigration  
1 Sep 2008 /  #40
ask the french or the spanish.
Arise_St_George 9 | 419  
5 Sep 2008 /  #41
Why not? are you trying to tell me that speaking your mother tounge means your entitled to a job that pays huge amounts of money?

Anyone that is fluent in the English language is capable of getting a job with alot more than the minimum wage with ease. If your English is poor then it is more difficult. Why should we opt for national minimum wage when we can get better? O.o
Mister H 11 | 761  
6 Sep 2008 /  #42
Why not? are you trying to tell me that speaking your mother tounge means your entitled to a job that pays huge amounts of money?

I think you meant "you're". I thought you were a teacher ?

"Huge amounts of money" means different things to different people, but the minimum wage does not provide a liveable wage, unless.......

35 hours per week on minimum wage is not enough to live on for a normal British person living on their own - you'd have to work circa. 60 hours a week to have any kind of life, where as if you share with several people Im sure minimum wage is quite alright, but what British person wants to share a flat with 7 other people?

My point exactly. What kind of a life is that ? Cheap foreign labour drives down wages for everyone, apart from the "super-league". And the country is full of the "super-league", who don't give a sh*t about anyone but themselves and they have all the money and the power.

Asking similar question. How do British who emigrate in big numbers to Spain and France integrate in those Societies...?

There is probably a forum somewhere where you can ask such a question, but my guess would be that what p*sses people off in this country, gets up the backs of the locals just as much in other countries when the British arrive.

That's part of the problem with us British, we set such a bad example to the rest of the world and then get uppity when people don't meet our (double) standards.
10iwonka10 - | 395  
10 Sep 2008 /  #43
Cheap foreign labour drives down wages for everyone,

Not true. there was tv program while ago- English farmer was paying 7 pounds per hour. He employed lots foreign workers- some of them earned up to 2 K a month. So Tv reporter went to Job Centre to have a chat with local blokes on benefits and thay started...o yes foreign workers drive down wages..we will not work £3 per hour...So reporter said no it is 7 per hour...but 'blokes didn't listen as they were to busy opening another can on Stella.....'

In theory- very easy solution- cut off (or rather review) benefits and send lazy people to work.
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
10 Sep 2008 /  #44
The guy who earnt 2k a month would have to work 66 hours a week - after tax he'll take home about £1.4K

I agree with the you regarding the scum that they interviewed outside the Job Centre - but Im sure they could have found people who actually wanted work - but that wouldn't have made the documentary so interesting :)
Mister H 11 | 761  
10 Sep 2008 /  #45
Not true. there was tv program while ago- English farmer was paying 7 pounds per hour. He employed lots foreign workers- some of them earned up to 2 K a month. So Tv reporter went to Job Centre to have a chat with local blokes on benefits and thay started...o yes foreign workers drive down wages..we will not work £3 per hour...So reporter said no it is 7 per hour...but 'blokes didn't listen as they were to busy opening another can on Stella.....'

In theory- very easy solution- cut off (or rather review) benefits and send lazy people to work.

I think I saw that programme, if it's the same one, the bloke you refer to went onto say something like:

"I don't want to work with a bunch of foreigners!" The film crew went and found some lazy chav with bling from Argos and a chip on his shoulder, rather than finding someone with a brain.

These TV programmes often have their own agenda and they feature the people who will help prove their point.

The guy who earnt 2k a month would have to work 66 hours a week - after tax he'll take home about £1.4K

I agree with the you regarding the scum that they interviewed outside the Job Centre - but Im sure they could have found people who actually wanted work - but that wouldn't have made the documentary so interesting :)

66 hours a week makes for a long working week and I dont think that the quality of a person's work can go the distance.
10iwonka10 - | 395  
10 Sep 2008 /  #46
The guy who earnt 2k a month would have to work 66 hours a week - after tax he'll take home about £1.4K

Some of them probbably worked about 60 hours a week- in peak time.I am not so sure I think that it was £7 per hour....
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
10 Sep 2008 /  #47
I worked on a farm in Ross-on-Wye in England one summer for a couple of months many years ago well about 13.
Peeling onions was the main job, for cobery farms, John Chin. We got 3:50 pound an hour, no over time, it was a 7 day week for 9 hours a day (sometimes 12 but that was by chose).

We even had to buy our own knives to cut them.
All 50 of us were put into a house in completely cramped conditions.
I claimed farm house rights (something like squatting) and refused to work weekends.
The locals were well angry at us, we got paid 50p an hour more than they did.
This John Chin guy was a right so and so, his Uncle was on the town council and this made him some how untouchable.
I tell you the things that used to go on, on that farm. Chemicals in the potatoes, bags of onions came in from Egypt and we would put them into Cobrey Farms bags, underpaying etc...

Apart from that I do think people live up their own bums, super markets are cheap because they drive down prices, the factory workers get lower wages in the end, so that you can have cheap goods.

The problem is with the customer and the Employer.
I rang up various agencies and reported what was going on in John Chin's farms.




We did cry from the onions every morning for the first half hour and then again after our one fifteen minute brake a day.

I still love onions and met some great people there, one guy in particular that is a very good friend even now.
I still like onions and Ross-on-Wye is a very beautiful town and the people are great and musical. But the sh*ts I worked for hated Irish, I was the only one mind you, i still hate being called "Paddy" by an English man.

Anyway I worked and went trekking in Nepal for a month with the money I had saved up.

I kinda lost my point there....something about if you by cheap goods it usually means cheap labour and how people blame the foreigners instead of the employers.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
10 Sep 2008 /  #48
Cheap foreign labour drives down wages for everyone

Foreign labor (cheap or not) obviously drive down the wages as the labor market is a market just like any other so bigger supply means lower price, wage in this case... but the problem is the natives in any at least a bit rich country generally don't want to do some jobs and the only solutions to change that are: 1. forget about any benefits - once the jobless start starving they will change their opinion about cleaning closets for minimal wage. 2. kick out the foreigners, so the employers will have to start paying much more to attract natives.

Now If you think that 2nd is so cool then you should start looking for "Economy for idiots" on Amazon.
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
11 Sep 2008 /  #49
I quite like the starving option :)

I also think that people should be paid a fair days pay for a fair days work regardless of their nationality.

The documentary that is being discussed, the one thing that i noticed was the fact people were waiting at coach stations waiting for coaches from Poland or whereever to arrive and offering people jobs, unless someone has researched the job market in the UK, how the hell do they know that they are being ripped off and under paid - most of the guys featured on the documentary were hardly professionals.
Daisy 3 | 1,225  
11 Sep 2008 /  #50
I quite like the starving option :)

me too.....problem is, I've just been to the park in my lunch break and the usual scagged up scumbags were there, no employer in a month of Sundays would emply them.
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
11 Sep 2008 /  #51
Herein lies the problem - why do labs have to experiment on poor animals, we could use these usless feks instead :)
Daisy 3 | 1,225  
11 Sep 2008 /  #52
why do labs have to experiment on poor animals, we could use these usless feks instead :)

Yeah, but how would you know which drug it was that killed them?
10iwonka10 - | 395  
11 Sep 2008 /  #53
1. forget about any benefits - once the jobless start starving they will change their opinion about cleaning closets for minimal wage. 2. kick out the foreigners, so the employers will have to start paying much more to attract natives.

There is one problem with it.Long unemplyment and lots of buzz and doing nothing can be very demoralizating. These 'work shy' people when deprived of the benefits can start begging or do burglaries instead of coming back to work.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
11 Sep 2008 /  #54
Let them beg if they want. Consequence of the second option is punishment.

Really, what you write is not heartbreaking. :)
10iwonka10 - | 395  
11 Sep 2008 /  #55
I don't feel sorry for them :-) rather opposite. but i didn't want to write it in the very harsh manner not to be attacked by some strong liberals.

Anyway, I think that I was reading somewhere that this government likes giving benefits to some people to keep them quiet?
JaeTheProducer 3 | 33  
12 Sep 2008 /  #56
Not true. there was tv program while ago- English farmer was paying 7 pounds per hour. He employed lots foreign workers- some of them earned up to 2 K a month. So Tv reporter went to Job Centre to have a chat with local blokes on benefits and thay started...o yes foreign workers drive down wages..we will not work £3 per hour...So reporter said no it is 7 per hour...but 'blokes didn't listen as they were to busy opening another can on Stella.....'

Yes, i happened to see this. That guy with the Stella was a prick, and probably doesn't even look for a job. But i do believe this was on BBC1, Yes? The exact reason why the programme was shot like that - to make all foreigners look like they are the hardest workers around and the young British folks are all lazy and pissheads. This is the BBC for you.

There was a very similar programme running on Channel 4 during the immigration season thing they had going on. In my opinion, that offered much more of an insight into how a standard actual-working, working-class Brit feels about Eastern European immigrants. Channel 4 has a bit more balls than the lovers of anything foriegn - BBC.
djf 18 | 166  
12 Sep 2008 /  #57
The BBC programme was very relevant for the areas which have had the highest percentage of foreign inmmigrants. Areas in the east of England such as Peterborough, Lincolnshire and the fens have experienced a greater change than most. Look at the towns of these areas, where the work is mostly manual labour, and you will find more than their fair share of work shy, dole scrounging, lazy English young people. The immigrants in these areas are known to be hard working (especially the Polish) and that is why the employers actively seek them over the 'natives'.

In areas which are less effected, middle class wanabee, Daily Mail reading "Mr Smith" is obviously going to have a different opinion.
JaeTheProducer 3 | 33  
12 Sep 2008 /  #58
The BBC programme was very relevant for the areas which have had the highest percentage of foreign inmmigrants.

Hmmm, well, you're entitled to your opinion, but i still feel the Channel 4 documentary had a more British outlook on the issue rather the foreign one looking in. And to touch on a point that MisterH made, i do agree that foreign workers have driven down wages of British workers. I happen to have a family member who has been 'doing up' houses for over 25 years. He recently had an agreement whereby he was going to refurbish a whole house - with a profit of £5000 (cheap for 6 months work), but was cut off at the last moment as the owner of the house found 3 Polish workers to do it to for less than £1000 profit. £333 each for 6 months work? Damn. And this is an ongoing trend in many hands on jobs.
10iwonka10 - | 395  
12 Sep 2008 /  #59
Maybe they will do it much quicker that in 6 months? How do you know their profit? Does house owner provide them with all materials?

I am not convinced about channel4 programme either. BBC shows twisted picture of British lazy people on benefits. Channel 4 shows one-sided wievs of some British workers saying that immigrants take their job. But....they were not convincing to me either- sort of people who demand, demand...more money, longer breaks...and O! painful back so will have to go on sick leave.....
djf 18 | 166  
12 Sep 2008 /  #60
Its an opinion based on 25 years of living in these areas and seeing first hand the rise in chav/lazy/dole scrounging english culture. And hearing/experiencing the appreciation of many farmers, land owners and factory managers for the harder working, punctual foreign worker.

Did you see the programmes last year on abattoirs? Several of the supervisors/managers commented on the benefits of employing a foreign worker over an engligh person.

The wage debate is simple economics. If someone can do the job to the same standard for less money (within the law) then it is obvious who is going to be employed. Thats why the government setup the minimum wage, gangmasters act and other schemes to ensure that the system is fairer.

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