I'm really bored of these ignorant little Englanders, who have no concept of how economies function, who rant and rave about
..ooops white immigration into the Uk. I could possibly understand fears about non-European immigration into the UK, citing cultural differences and lack of integration. But this is simply not the case. Many of these complainers actually don't want to be in the EU.
For me they are race traitors, denigrating other caucasians, which disgusts me.
As for muslims in the UK well I don't particularly want to expand on that subject, suffice to say when "the rivers of blood" begin I'm going to be in Poland:).
Just to add my 3 pence here, from my humble Polish point of view, all the economical giants (the US, the UK, Germany, France) have built their power with the vast help of immigrants (i.e. cheap labour force). Is someone going to deny it ?
Immigrans are just a scape goat and demonized group, used for political purposes. Media does a good job at it. So today it's Polish, tomorrow somenbody else..........
yeah you wait till the Romanian and Bulgarian boys arrive ahahahahahahahahahahaha. They will be begging the Polish to stay and help fend of these loons
My little 3 p again... I think that Roman and Bulgarian will emigrate towards the South of Europe... They're rather 'heat-liking' :) So Greece, Cyprus, Italy... The UK would be a target for organised crime (if any), so it'll be a challenge for the Police...
This is quite sad but I used to be abused by some British ppl for my nationality and it is not bothering me that much any more. Britain should fight with racism in their own land before pointing fingers at other nations and accuse them of racism.
er..dude are you involved in OC, perhaps thats why you haven't noticed them also most of it is based from London. Alot of their activity involves human trafficking and heroin.
there a lot of Romanian guys here at the moment thats for sure-they recently took a building contract that had been previously a polish building contract-from the impression i got from one of them-they are here to stay-one has only been down in London for six weeks and claims he has been fasttracked a council flat to move in before xmas.
the Poles i know rent property and dont rely on state handouts
I think the moment that people play the race card my BS detectors bleeps racist. If the Polish ‘race’ were made up of Caucasian Muslims, would you feel better or worse Giles?
As to anti- Polish feelings in the UK, in my experience they are returned in kind by many Polish who live [for the moment] in this dreary damp country- there’s good and bad on both sides. For many of the Polish working here they know they are just doing the shite jobs that the ‘British’ aren’t willing to do, and for those British that are willing the Pole is cheaper- so resentment builds on both sides- first the Pole feels bad because he recognises how little his employer cares about him as an individual, then the British national feels scared because he knows if he doesn’t conform to the Polish work ethic his boss will just dump him and get a Pole to do the work.
In reality these two people have more in common than less in common, they are both up to their necks in BS, sadly they take it out on each other rather than sitting down and talking, and recognising that it is not they, but the system that has caused their conflicts.
I think the moment that people play the race card my BS detectors bleeps racist. If the Polish ‘race’ were made up of Caucasian Muslims, would you feel better or worse Giles?
ah ha you are onto something here Mr. Welsh (I'm not going to say stupid because you're not and thats your self mocking joke).
If they were caucasian muslims it would be a different matter. Why, because Islam is generally in juxtaposition to Western philospophies, i.e womens rights etc
Polish "christians", are going to assimilate and integrate into the Uk, whilst the muslim population will always remain closed because of the religion. As I stated before relgion is my pet hate.
So does disliking a religion make me racist? I'm also not keen on Christianity, but hey at least it is a religion of tolerance (except for the extremist sects).
Do Christian Africans in the Uk assimilate, answer alot more than muslim Africans. This is not about colour, its about being able to join in with UK culture, bring something to it rather than stand isolated amongst it.
But Poles are Catholics, and Britain is Protestant, and with a big dose of non-conformists [happily denying the interpretation of the Gospel according to both the Queen and the Pope], and we have the Hindu, the Muslims. All religious people in their way, all with a common code of moral behaviour. And the Jewish community can be very insular, but they are OK because?
If the Jews are OK even though they deny the deity of Christ, and the non-conformists, and the Muslims, and the Buddhists, and the…
Why even mention the Muslims?
What’s your point Giles?
Do you remember?
How do you know that even though you disregard and avoid religious issues, that ‘it’s all the Muslims fault’?
Why even mention the Muslims, Giles?
As you avoid religious issues?
Why Giles, do you remember?
Is it because most Muslims have different colour skin to yours, is it because you don’t understand their culture, is it because they make you frightened Giles? Is it Giles?
When Irish Catholics were killing innocent people in England, did you ignore the religion, and damn the Security services for being traitors to the Caucasian cause? Did you Giles, can you remember?
Giles, you and I know you are a racist, so lets be honest to better facilitate your therapy.
1) Regarding Northern Ireland I actually believe in a United Ireland and an independant Scotland and Wales. Regional autonomy.
2) Secondly it was you who used the phrase "caucasian muslims" first not me. So that led to my response.
3) Regarding religion well I believe religion is the root of all evils. And i do not believe in God or any other trickery.
4) Hindu, buddist, sihks, Jews I don't see them attacking the UK or USA. I don't see them asking for special treatment. My friend who incidently is jewish was hurt badly during the 7/7 explosions in London and so am I wrong to fear extremism?
Am I now to be decried, vilified because I hold my views different to yours? Do my opinions make me a 'bad person', 'morally corrupt'....a 'fascist'?
The point I was making was in reference to all the people who keep running down Polish people in the UK, Polish people are so very like the English in many ways. Perhaps the feeling of invasion is due to the biggest single migration since the French protestants way back when.
Am I an ignorant poster who has not studied Francis Fanon or liberation theology, Foucault, Marx etc.
Is my point surely that where as people complain about other nationalities precisely because they fear the "other" and are uneducated about these people, the Polish are not other at all. So why the reaction, surely it is petit nationalism and this little England mentality that makes me cross.
For me this is misguided.
Final question am I a racist? Well thats not for me to say, rather other to judge.:)
(on a serious note, at least we are conducting a discussion and not shouting or threatening each other which is a relief to read, for that I thank you.)
I found this post I had put on another thread and thought I transfer it here for you Mr.Welsh to read.
Racism, is essential a reaction. It is the fear of the "other". The "other" being not us, not our cultural and historical reality. The writer Francis Fanon, put forward the concept of black emancipation and through his writings he investigated the concept of the other.
If through identifying another racial group as closer to animals than ourselves, the result is two fold, firstly we raise ouselves closer to "God" and push the "other"closer to the beast.
"And God gave man dominion over the beasts". So in doing so we could justify the subjegation of the other for our own needs, master slave relationship.
The main slave traders we the Catholic Portuguese, Spainish, the protestant English and Dutch and the Muslim Arabs. Both who's relgions come from similar male dominated roots. Which is another history, i.e the domination of Men or women.
So returning to racism and the "fear of the other". The barbarian, or the savage are animals to be quelled and used by the master.
So this legacy is now so ingrained in world conciousness, that everywhere we turn we have to deal with it in some form or the other. Whether it is institutional, economical, or reverse racsim, it is in our everyday lives. Relgion is a great tool to hide the racist attitudes of the nations, it is acceptble to fight in the name of God, but not in the name of one's race.
So are the Polish more or less racist than anyone else? I doubt it. It is important to realise that the catholic church encourages nationalistic passions and these can be crudely reconstructed as racist attitudes, they are not, they are political will being exercised through the ignorance of the masses for political gain, they are not true racist values.
People will always fear what they do not understand, and this fear will always be exploited by the powers that be. Slavery is official gone though in practise economic slavery is very much alive, the capitalist system which uses " any means neccessary, will always encourage racist ideology because it maintains the status quo and again is a blind, a distraction from the main game, which is the economic struggle of the classes.
To have rich people you needed to have poor people. Blimey I must come across as a Marxist!!
..ooops white immigration into the Uk. I could possibly understand fears about non-European immigration into the UK, citing cultural differences and lack of integration. But this is simply not the case. Many of these complainers actually don't want to be in the EU. For me they are race traitors, denigrating other caucasians, which disgusts me.
Don't forget that even tough we live in the XXI century we still have some animal instinct’s in our self’s. One of them is the territory thing. People tend to treat some parts of the land as their own and any new settler will always be regarded as a intruder, no matter of his skin color or even very similar background, there will always be a tension rising there. Personally I understand this Britons that feel intimidated by the new comers, but what I really find irritating is that some of them instead of saying "Hey, you lot are invading my life space and I don't feel particularly bloody jolly about it!" they are coming up with some ridicules lies about Poles, in order to make them look bad, and justify their hate towards them. :)
And just in cae people wouldn't overlook a very wise and significan't thought in this thread, I will quote it:
Immigrans are just a scape goat and demonized group, used for political purposes. Media does a good job at it. So today it's Polish, tomorrow somenbody else..........
This is bs-don't believe all this rubbish about English/Polish hostility because it doesn't exist. A smaller number of people resent the situation for the following reasons:
1)It is estimated that since 2004 around 2 million Poles have entered the UK and although many have since returned(many are temporary workers) the permanent Polish migrant population is thought to be around 300,000-600,000.In response to this 6-8 people on this forum have expressed extreme views (out of 61 million people) so it is hardly a huge backlash of hatred.
However,many UK citizens are concerned for the following reasons:
2)The UK is a small densely populated country of 61 million people.If the USA had the same population density you would have more than 2 billion people (instead of 300 million as now).
This means that when there is a large influx of people over a short period (as there has been with the Polish)then the effects are felt far more quickly than would be the case with a large empty country.
3)Professionals,students and educated Polish migrants are no problem.However,lower wage British people and many self employed plumbers,decorators,builders etc are concerned by the Poles who are doing the same work as themselves.If a Polish migrant comes to the UK for 2-3 years,works in a factory/warehouse,shares a room with 2 other migrants and saves every penny he can return to Poland and start a decent life.He gets higher British wages,tax credits etc but can use cheap Polish dentists,opticians etc on his visits home.British workers do not have this option-even if they lived like that for 3 years the money saved could not pay the deposit on a flat/house in most parts of the UK.
4)In the UK all Polish workers(after 12 months) are entitled to the same rights and access to benefits-housing subsidy,tax credits(income subsidy),subsidised higher education,free medical treatment as lifetime residents.This might be fair but it means some migrants are receiving far more than they are paying in taxes.It also causes resentment from some lower income UK residents-as it would anywhere.
5)Some Polish migrants are going in vast numbers to areas of the UK previously untouched by immigration.Much of the UK is multicultural but in these other areas some schools and other services have been unprepared for non-English speakers.If you have a town with few foreigners and then 3000-10000 all from one country(Poland) turn up then some friction is to be expected.
7)To be accurate there is very little dislike of Polish people in particular - some people just have legitimate concerns about the sheer number that have come in 2 years.Ignore the hatred on this forum because it represents less than 1% of the UK population.
who have no concept of how economies function, who rant and rave about
teach us then you mr. economist. do you know unemployment rate in increasing day by day. currency value is lower then it was before 2004 cuz you poles sending all money back to poland .
this is 100% true. other immigrant like asians, arabs or russian invest in our country but poles invest in their own country only.
As a British Pole who has lived the majority of my life in the UK and who has strong blood links with British people, I think there are rights and wrongs on both sides.
I can understand why a British person may feel angry about a Polish person getting a council flat or benefits or any kind of help from the state, when the British person has to put up with the British government making cuts in the NHS etc. Although you may think otheerwise listening to Tony Blair, the British government is constantly making cuts in education and the NHS. Doctors are put under pressure to spend as little as possible withhin their NHS practices, health visitors who retire or leave are not ebing replaced, and if you child needs medical treatment, the hospital staff are put under pressure not to admit you unless aboslutely necessary and to make your stay as short as possible.. All with the aim of saving money.
At the same time immigrants and asylum seekers are given financial help, council homes, benefits etc.
As a British Pole I have to say charity begins at home.
this is 100% true. other immigrant like asians, arabs or russian invest in our country but poles invest in their own country only.
In response to UK's quote (above)
Not true. You are generalising. Perhaps this is true of the Poles who have only been here 1, 2, 3 years but the Poles who have lived here for a longer period invest in the UK.
I am such a Pole. I own property in the UK, I regularly donate to British charities (animal charities are the closest to my heart) but I have also donated to Dogs for the Blind, Cancer Research, Children's charities etc.
I spend all my money in the Uk (except when I go on holiday) thereby boosting the British economy.
My car is a Ford and I don't and never have claimed benefits in tbe UK.
I forgot to add:
my dad has for many years worked for a Polish firm based in the UK. This firm employs British people as well as Polish (the sales manager, accountant, most of the sales staff warehouse staff) were British, not to mention the cleaner, secretaries, reception staff etc etc. So it has created jobs for at least 25 British people. British firms were both buyers and suppliers so it has boosted the UK economy.
I suspect that if you had heard this company mentioned you would never realise it was a wholly Polish owned company, unless you had inside information.
There are many Poles in the UK, some like me have been here for a long time. So next time you start generalising about Poles not contributing to the British economy, take a deep breath and do your research first.
I'm really bored of these ignorant little Englanders, who have no concept of how economies function, who rant and rave about
So am I, and I'm British.
Of course there is prejudice, just as there was with the many immigrants (not migrants) who arrived in the Uk after the last world-war, but I can tell you this, the Poles are very popular in the workplace and get on with English people very well.
A British official, talking about migrants from Europe, said something very interesting. I'll paraphrase what he said, but it was something lie, "Migrants from Poland will not be a problem, because within a generation, they will only be recognised by the fact that no-one will be able to easily pronounce their names."
The problem with forums such as this, is the fact that many "little Englanders" who support the extreme-right BNP party, tend to subscribe their ignorant and prejudiced views; usually
from a totally uneducated point of view.
If all the Poles in England decided to leave "en masse" tomorrow, the bloody BNP would then turn on the "Pakis", the Indians and "blacks." Another day: another scapegoat!
They're no different to the Polish Youth who attack gay people on the streets of Warsaw, but they fortunately don't carry much clout in England and have no political credibility.
That said, mass migration has created problems, but not any great hostility thus far. We're quite good at sorting out problems in the UK, and we'll adapt to it.
That said, mass migration has created problems, but not any great hostility thus far. We're quite good at sorting out problems in the UK, and we'll adapt to it.
Well, apparently not so good, some people just decide to emmigrate instead. According to the latest statistics, the Brits are leaving in droves. While 1500 people immigrate to the UK every day, 1000 British citizens leave - every day. In the last decade, more Brits left the UK for good than at any other time in history.
