14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion!

That was the thinking, wishful albeit ;)

Hehe;)

My gf was told at her school when she was about 7 that Gay people have a sickness of the mind, and accepting that sickness was a sin, she also agreed with the condom thing, saying that she was also taught that it doesn't protect against STI's ect.

Funny how in the "modern" world we are taught that the only way to protect against becoming pregnant and STI's is to wear a condom.

Of course, accidents can happen...

Gay people have different genes, it's as simple as that.

They are often very close fitting and dark blue. At least in Kemp Town.

everyone* has different genes

*with exception of twins (like Bracia Kaczynscy /aka Duck Brothers ;p/)

Better to be behind the times if that means being correct. The truth doesn't have a share in disasters of its defenders.


I did not see any video and as I have write before the oppose from different reason. You people should know why if you disagree but apparently this is not the case. Also I have no idea why you are so interested why somebody using condoms or not. The church doesn't force anybody to resign from condoms.

What church gain in your opinion on objecting condoms?


Very simple, due to respect for a human life. I know many atheists with similar views.


Actually the church is engaged (and have long traditions) in many charitable actions, including houses for lonely mothers. Somebody mentioned Africa before. The church working with those people over there, building schools and hospitals while the left which is always do loudly just sending condoms! (brusselsjournal.com/node/3281) Who is obsessed with sex then?


According the law in this country she may do it. It doesn't mean that I agree with this law which is illogical. However first of all she should visit psychologist. However mass media like GW prefer to use this case in their ideological battles instead search for the best solution.


First of all as guys should stop stirring hysteria because this seems to be a plague in some western societies. A rape can be considered to be a tragedy but a new life cannot. This is your irrational emotions leading you to such concussions. Biologically

this will be the same baby like many others.

Man, get a grip. The baby has no formed identity. Why do we allow the killing of people with Persistent Vegetative State (PVS)? What quality of life does an unborn baby have? Irrational emotions? She didn't consent to having this baby, can't u understand that? If life is so important, why has the international community stood by and allowed, even rubber-stamped, countless needless wars? I'm sure the girl will love to be reminded who the father was. Lesser, I'm actually insulted by ur stance.

What truth?


No, but it uses their faith to make them resign....twisted eh?


The life belongs to the person, and not the church. Since she has already decided too have the abortion, why are the church getting involved?


Giving with one hand, taking with the other really.



And how long do you think the treatment will take? By that time the 12 week deadline will have past. Again she has already decided, after im sure 10weeks of thought. Plus she will be spending the rest of her life going to a Psychologist after having her rapists' baby at the age of 14. She is still a child, and the law is there to protect her, which the church SHOULD be doing, instead of hounding her down like she is the guilty one.




Maybe in the west we are not so blinded by faith.
Or irrational belief based on a book used to control the masses, and which has factual basis.
Biologically it will be the same baby. Only psychologically damaged, raised by a mother who does not want it.

Exactly lesser, listen to what we are telling u. OK, let me put it to u this way and I'm appealing 2 ur sensitivity here, a fervent plea. Imagine that it was ur daughter, what would u do? Praise the church for guiding u or be a real parent with sympathy? Faith doesn't always produce the right result and the doing of the right thing.

WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION (WHO) euro.who.int/document/ens/en55.pdf

There are an estimated 80,000 to 200,000 illegal abortions per year in Poland. In comparison, in 2001, 124 abortions were performed legally in Poland.

I wonder how many of these illegal abortions end up with the mother having complications, or the fetus being over the 12 week deadline.
It seems a shame on us all here in Poland that these poor women are driven into illegal abortions, risking death and other problems, by an antiquated society who are living in the dark ages.


Says a minority of one!!!!


HIV-infected condoms sent to kill Africans, claims archbishop
guardian.co.uk/world/2007/sep/27/aids.international

So if fact this Archbishop is condemning hundreds if not thousands to die because of what he believes in.

So what?


Seanus, this is not your problem.


I'm actually very calm, just repeating one would think obvious truths. While you prefer to divide children according to some irrational criteria. Stop being offended, Seanus.


About killing unborn babies for example.


They use arguments unknown for you. People have free choice.


Exactly and since you are unable to proof that a baby wants to be killed, should be born. Of course unless that mother life is under serious threat, this would be an exception.


Taking what?


Neither myself and I suppose you as well are competent to answer such question.


Once again, this have nothing to do with faith. You may say that you don't have such a respect to human life. On other hand so many of you complain in hysteric way about Muslims overrunning your countries. Guess why? They don't have such problems.


First of all if mother doesn't want a child, she would not be forced to keep it. There are plenty of people willing to adopt a child.


How those propagandists estimate such statistics? If they know about such cases and did not inform police, this is a crime in Poland.


I'm not alone, however even if I would be only very unwise person would search for true with help of democratic voting. This is not an argument.

The baby has no formed identity and that counts for a lot. Look at those with PVS, they have some identity at least, albeit remote. It can hardly be described as a major loss. Imagine the kid gets to form its identity. Who does the mother say that the father is? U r showing me that u can't think of such basic things. The child would be a constant, harrowing reminder.

Not my problem?? What kind of answer is that? It is central to the whole thing. I'm sorry, the child was formed with no consent and the sooner the woman sheds herself of this burden, the better.

What irrational criteria? It's only a foetus and one in which was brought about by force. What if sb dumped a baby off with u and told u to bring it up, what then? Think of the girl, do u really think she wants to go through the pain of childbirth?

Come on man, Poland is full of anachronistic laws. Many women seek abortions here. Get with the program.

A very predictable answer.
Lesser I guess you are a decent human being, and we both have different views on this, so I for one am going to stop trying to persuade you as it seems a pointless task, have a happy life and I hope you are never in this situation.

Just think of backhander payments to doctors, starting to get the picture? Corruption is still here, people have to bend the rules as some laws are still rooted in the 1920's.

Lesser, i don't think you have ever had an original thought...


Trust me, these arguements are very well known to me. If i choose to disagree with them, that's my choice.


Sorry, lets not brandish the baby word about. At this stage of development.


I fail to see what this has to do with the subject.


Probarly the most intelligent thought i've heard from you. That is indeed another option. But the point is, she wants to have an abortion. I know she is young, but she is quite capable of knowing the options. And i still dont see any reason for pro-life and the church getting involved.

I hope this child does get the support she deserves, and is allowed to make that decision by herself. Only she can make it. If she regrets it in the future, thats sad. But nobody has the right to force her to do it or not. The decision made not to give her the abortion although she was perfectly entitled to it by law, is a stark example of why Religion, Pro-life, or any other organised group should never be allowed to stick their noses into other people very harsh problems.

The fact remains that even consenting 14 year olds cannot legally give birth. She must be at least 16.

Well it seems in the West you use different dogmas to control the masses.

I hope the girl will be alright.

That's also true....Global Warming, Terrorism blablabla. The world has gone to pot.

I agree but we still have standards. The welfare of the child is paramount, I have stated this umpteen times. Surely allowing the abortion would be in her best interests. She is still a kid after all, in the eyes of the law.

And maybe it was always like this and there always will be people that will continue to manipulate the masses just using different ideologies and constructing new dogmas?

Personally I don't believe that the church has that much to say in Pl. Actually it never had as we are a nation of distrustful skeptics, especially regarding trusting people from higher hierarchy, whether laic or catholic. But I do know that people like to think otherwise and I don't think that they would be willing to listen to my arguments.

Either way, I send my wishes of fast recovery for that little girl and her family.

edit


She definately has the right to terminate this pregnancy.

Maybe there has to be a greater culture of openness and transparency. Maybe it is true that Poland plays down the role of the church but this isn't the overriding perception. Look at it closely, how often do u c priests getting involved in the name of Catholicism? Often. How often do u c Protestants doing likewise? They tend to look at the moral foundation of things.

True, unfortunately, or fortunately, priests are citizens of Rzeczpospolita Polska and also have the right to voice their opionions howe silly they may get. Just like die hard atheists, homosexuals, communists and what not can join the debate and present their arguments. Actually this what democracy is all about.

I'm not denying that, nor should I, I just think their opinions rise to the fore a little too easily. As dtaylor said, it is for the child or her family to make that decision in the absence of a curator bonis. Priests should stick to consummating marriages or teaching moral rectitude to those who are interested, i.e church-goers. Not meddling in cases such as these. Agreed?

But standing in the way of someone, anyone, from going about something that is supposedly within the law. It makes it more sickening that this girl is already the victim of rape, (unwanted) pregnancy (with all the associated risks to her health, being still at such a young age). There is voicing of opinions, but this seems far worse.

True.

She is being harmed now by prolonging her agony. Restitution is important in the aftermath of rape. The sooner the original position is restored, the better (as if the rape hadn't happened).

I wonder how compensation applies in cases such as this. I've seen payouts given for trivial stuff, but can any monetary payment undo the psychological harm of rape? Especially that of a minor I'd say.

Yes. The church definately shoot itself in the foot in this case.

She is young, which works in her favour. She wont ever forget what has happened to her, but she will have alot more time to be able to deal with the trauma. Prolonging this will only increase the time it takes for her to recover. Or her hatred towards the child.

You got to remember, she is probarly thinking that there is something inside her that was not put there by her consent, rather it was forcefully put there. Whatever the outcome, it is she, and her alone that must deal with this horrible situation at such a young age. She has chosen abortion, which in itself shows she how she views this circumstance.

Kto ratuje jedno życie, ratuje cały świat.W takich chwilach jestem dumny, że jestem Polakiem, że należę do narodu, któryjest wierny swojej Królowej.P.S.: Przywrócić penalizację sodomii!»

This was from the article. It's such fanatical idiots like this that the Poles get a bad name. A holier than thou git who doesn't think practically. The thing is, he gets portrayed as a typical Catholic. Maybe this should be a focus here.

What a twat!!

What does it say?