14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion!

He who rescues one life, rescues the whole world. At moments like this, I am proud to be Polish, belonging to a country which is faithful to its Queen (Mother Mary??). Let's return to penalising sodomy.

What gives this bellend the right to say that? Back in the Stone Age

tit..

Hey, that's an offence to tits, take it back son ;)

Puss filled tits then:) hehe

That's what I'm talkin about :)

Confushus say maybe what correct yesterday, not correct tomorrow

Maybe we should return to the times of the apes lesser. How would that be?

Because you say so?


People should be allowed to decide whether they want to be killed or not in such situation before. (and provide financial backing)


This is proper answer. Quality of life of mine or some unborn baby is not your problem. Also you could unliterary state that mine quality of life is poor and demand to end this. This is unacceptable.


Also very accurate.


A bit too harsh, however you are free to use all kind of your original and non-original thoughts to overthrow my arguments. So far you are unable to do so.


I'm 100% sure that you don't know church stance, otherwise you would mention this few post before.


Legally yes, however it would be good if Vatican disciplined them, because they are obligated to pass RCC stances not their personal views. Those whom would refuse to stick to the teaching should be dropped.


Take a remote control in your hand and switch few channels, this world is way closer to the apes than you might think.

It's very interesting that there is no mentioning of the rapist. Who was he? A nice catholic boy? A friendly older neighbor or an uncle? He is the one who needs a visit from a priest, but in prison, where he should be used as a girl for some time.

I have no mercy for this kind of animalistic behavior.

This poor girl is victimized all over again. I wish the priests just stay in church and stick to the prayers - that's their job.

Please, let me enter the discussion.

> Not my problem?? What kind of answer is that?

That is an answer of a true Caholic. They only care that the baby is born; not whether – and how – s/he and the parents survive afterwards. Perfect example is case of Mrs Alicja Tysiac, who was also illegally denied abortion which threatened her already extremely poor eyesight. According to Mrs Tysiac herself, “57 Catholic organizations wrote to Strasburg [when the European Court of Justice stated that she was wronged], but none ever asked whether she and the baby could be helped”.

> priests have the right to voice their opinions
Here the case is not about ‘voicing an opinion’, but a priest following and pestering the family with bunch of older religious women, disrupting the hospital and even sticking to them in the police station. Which by the way shows that such people are above law in Poland, because when a normal private person in no way would be allowed to occupy the nurses’ office in hospital or hamper provision of medical services.

> [Church] lying to children in schools saying condoms do not work. A: BS
Well, as a Pole who went to school when religion was already there, I can only confirm: the cleric who had religion lessons with us (and other classes) presented as an undisputed fact that condoms do not work, and that women who use pills will die (generally) of breast cancer at the age of 50. It was in Warsaw.

As regards so-called Church’s respect for a human life, I will start to believe it when e.g. it will start to protest against Polish troops in Iraq (where they are killed and kill regularly – and Iraq is not even invading us); or when a Pope receives Dalai Lama and protests against Tibetians being murdered by the Chinese. Or when it will support Jerzy Owsiak, due to whose charity-raising action numerous, baby-life saving hospital equipment was bought. Alas, curiously this ‘respect’ means mostly opposing abortion regardless of the circumstances and the woman's fate.

From the way that some of the Priests behave in this country I wouldn't be too surprised if it was a Priest in the first place that fathered the child.

Only last year here in Puławy a Priest was convicted of downloading child pornography. And I know of not far away from here in Michów, where a priest lives with his so-called secretary and she is unmarried with two children, and the rumor is that he is the father of them both.

I am definitely pro-choice and cannot understand people like Lesser who tell others it's not their business what the quality of life of an unborn child is, yet, he doesn't despise the organisation that abuses a raped girl for their purposes. If quality of somebody else's life is nobody's business then how dare you interfere with that girl's decision to terminate the pregnancy? Your argument about the baby not speaking for itself is silly. To my best knowledge, and yours as well if you had biology at school, until the 12th week the foetus is not a baby yet. Even the institution whose rights you so eagerly defend - CC - will not bury a miscarried foetus. So if it is not considered a human being in case of funeral, why should it be considered human in terms of abortion?

Also, in case of similar moral debate about euthanasia, CC forbids it even though it is a mature decision of fully formed individual. So, please, save your argument of conscious decision as it doesn't apply.

I am not against CC preaching about what they believe is right, still, it gets on my tits to see that what their preach becomes law in countries like Poland or Ireland and thus affects not only Catholics but all others as well. It shouldn't be this way. If you are against abortion because of what you believe in, you won't have one. Nobody has the right to humiliate this girl any further after all she's been through. And what CC did was to make her tragedy public without thinking what price she'll have to pay for it. If they want fight, let them fight with their own wombs, not somebody else's.

It always found it amazingly hypocritical how someone can scream and shout for the rights of an unborn fetus yet quite happily let animals be slaughtered so they can stuff their face.

What CC preaches doesnt become the law here in Poland. If that was true you wouldn't be able to buy condoms or pornographic magazines in almost every shop or even party during fasting.... Even the discussed current abortion law is in conflict with the CC's preachings.


I think that I already wrote that in this case the church, or to be more precise this priest, shot himself in his own foot.


But wouldn't eating them alive be more cruel?

To stir the ashes, muddy the waters, (insert your metaphor of choice)

Apparently the protesters (no links, all in Polish and if you can read it you can find it easily enough) are claiming to be acting on what they think is the girl's wishes.

Their story: there was no rape (except statutory maybe) and the father is the girl's boyfriend and the girl wants the baby but is being pressured by the mother to terminate.

I have _no_ idea if any of this is true (and if any of it's true to what degree). But it's their story.

My emphasis.

They say thought can be a dangerous thing. Isn't it heartwarming to know that if you have a life or death problem... people who have never met you have all the answers.

There is no reason to mention him, he should be severely punished and that is all. However I'm sure that our leftist friends want to be assured that such a deviant wont be punished too badly because it would not help in reclamation process. They will protect his right to spend a time in luxury hotel called "prison". All of this funded from our taxes.


Apparently you have a problem with reading, because you distort my post. Or this is just eristic trick? What do you know about quality of life of the unborn? Why do you reserve to yourself the right to kill somebody if you consider his quality of life to be below some mysterious level?


Ordinary people in Poland doing this on regular basis if you are not aware. Coal miners, railway workers or nurses whom not so long ago occupied office of the Polish PM. Please open your eyes.


RCC regularly oppose every each military conflict. On today's mass our parish hosted Polish nun who is working in Bosnia where they solving problems that local politicians and international community left over there.


Dalai Lama hosted in Vatican many times. However this is funny how do you want Pope hosting a theocratic ruler.


What is your job? We could check some statistics to find out how many people in your profession had such problems. Then we could make some conclusion what would this say about you. Few days ago some other poster suggested that all Germans and Austrians are deviants because of freak like Fritzl and some others. Think about it, why do you think in such categories?


This a human being and we don't have other choice but respect his freedom. If you don't see a human being then this is your lack of knowledge, deep denial of science. Somehow the left which established different abortion laws in different countries set different times when unborn may be killed. So they cannot agree among themselves. They cannot agree, because they are all wrong. Pure and simple.


You are free to kill yourself and abandon RCC and they cannot stop you. So what is the point? I don't understand why are you so concentrated on what they say. You cannot stand that some people find their teaching valuable?


Because this very important issue. Perhaps some people made right conclusion from pastor Niemoller poem "First they came…".

As a meat eater you put the life of an animal as lower tahn that of an unborn baby.

What do you know about the quality of life of an animal in relation to an unborn baby?

Why do reserve the right to kill an animal in order to stuff your face as if you consider the life to be below some mysterious level?

It appears as though you are a hypocrite

Yes, I don't consider life of the animal to be equal with human life. Although I cannot accept killing of animal for fun. Call me a hypocrite if you want.

How on earth can you defend this is beyond belief, any, and I repeat, ANY, pervert who does this should be locked away, but oh know! he was just sent packing off to the Vatican, to make him a better person, and he will probably reemerge in Africa or some country like that abusing children under the protection of the Church.

Beyond belief is how can you suggest that I defend such individuals. Also how could you think in categories of collective guilt.

sorry????????? Then what the hell are you posting for then, or are you just looking for an argument ????

Without pretending to know the real facts in this particular case:

Any woman has the absolute moral right to terminate a pregnancy that results from violence against done against her person just as she has the moral right to terminate a pregnancy that threatens her life or health.

The moral status of the fetus in both cases is immaterial and irrelevant.

Sheep and others... It's not your business... go comment about new skirt of the Queen or something...

It is my business when I live in this country as I have done for quite a while now, and when I see minority comments on social injustices.

You know very well, you intentionally raise such incidents to blame all clergy.


You are very wrong.

So women have no right of self-defense or authority over their own bodies?

Please enlighten me on your reasoning.

Shouldn't these people be whiter than white? After all, are they not representatives of your God!!
Of course I raised such incidents, but in the definition of being a priest this should never happen.

Hmmmm, something smells here!! I guess you are just one of these guys that gets off on the black and white argument.
I've had enough and I am going to take my wife and daughter out for the day and forget about such individuals as yourself.

She have the right to self-defense, she could kill this rapist if possible. She doesn't have the right to violate freedom of innocent person. This is simply libertarian way of thinking.


Bad apples happens everywhere. But this is nice that you at least admit your intentions. Concept of collective guilt seems to be always alive despite how progressive some individuals consider themselves.

If the very existence of the 'innocent person' (known to most people as a non-sentient clump of cells) is the result of violence, it has no inherent right to use the body of an unwilling adult for its sustenance and birth.

If a woman has the right to kill a rapist in self-defense then surely she has the right to not tie herself to him biologically. Otherwise, women are just hatcheries for any many who can impregnate them (in any way).