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Some Poles burning American flag


Seanus 15 | 19,706  
26 Mar 2009 /  #241
They are not democratically elected. So enlighten me, why do they meet again? Why can't they do some teleconferencing?

Then why did I not even hear 1 mention of him in either my Hons or postgrad year if he was so pivotal?
sjam 2 | 541  
26 Mar 2009 /  #242
So what... this forum isn't democratically elected either?
I am not on the Bilderberg Group invitation list so can't answer why teleconferencing isn't their preferred means of meeting.
IMO. The fact that you didn't hear about Retigner is I suggest a failure of your Hons and post grad ciriculum and research rather than anything else.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
26 Mar 2009 /  #243
Well, 2 of my teachers won prestigious awards for their work. 1 is the author of the leading text along with Stephen Weatherill of Cambridge. The other is a leading academic in Britain. My Uni got a research rating of 5, the best. It's one of the best in Europe.

So, come again!?
HatefulBunch397 - | 658  
26 Mar 2009 /  #244
So enlighten me, why do they meet again?

Seanus I think it would be a good idea for you to infiltrate Bilderberg Group for us. You could attend their next meet then report back and tell everyone what they discussed. I would like to know what they talk about when together too. You could be our official spy!
sjam 2 | 541  
26 Mar 2009 /  #245
Again maybe you should contact them (your tutors) if they also haven't heard of Retinger. But I would be very surprised that they haven't.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
26 Mar 2009 /  #246
There are folks who do that already, HB. They are first to obtain the various leakages and divulge the contents.

sjam, I'm willing to discuss specifics. He was a champion of an idea that, as of yet, hasn't really come to fruition. He was an ardent proponent of a federal states of Europe. So, a man had a vision, many have. When this didn't materialise, he resorted/contrived to form the Bilderberg Group in 1954. An underground and clandestine society whose sporadic meetings should have little or no bearing on policy formulation.
HatefulBunch397 - | 658  
26 Mar 2009 /  #247
There are folks who do that already, HB. They are first to obtain the various leakages and divulge the contents.

Do you know what was discussed at their last meeting?

I found this link:

truefacts.co.uk/articles/a0002.html

it's vaguely conspiratoral but is somewhat informative. Talks about that Prince who started the thing in 1954. Is he still a part of it? He must be ancient.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
26 Mar 2009 /  #248
He died in 1960. I don't pay too much attention to their deliberations. They will say what they will say.
sjam 2 | 541  
27 Mar 2009 /  #249
Seanus:
So from not knowing anything about Retinger before I brought him to your attention yesterday, you now know everything about him and what he achieved or contrived to do or didn't do :-)) most likely based on similar websites you linked to like the authoritive website "Truefacts: Exposing the truth THEY don't want you to know!"

Come on really ;-)))

If space is curved then tangents become full circles so I guess we are done now ;-))
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
27 Mar 2009 /  #250
I didn't look at that truefacts website. I read up a bit on him, yes. To have a discussion, you have to know something so I checked up.

I read what he stood for and, as I said, it hasn't come about yet.
Harry  
27 Mar 2009 /  #251
And then we murdered jewish babies, over a campfire :-=) You're on the roll mate, as always.

Odd how these conversations always go. You make a wildly inaccurate statement. I post back with the facts. You then post back claiming that black is white; I post pointing out that black is black and white is white. You then reply with nonsense.

Or it could just be that when faced with uncomfortable facts, you always resond by jabbering nonsense. It could be that you can not deal with the fact that Poland willingly sent tens of thousands of troops to invade Czechoslovakia while other countries in the Warsaw Pact refused to invade their neighbour.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
27 Mar 2009 /  #252
You make a wildly inaccurate statement. I post back with the facts. You then post back claiming that black is white; I post pointing out that black is black and white is white. You then reply with nonsense.

Harry your posts consist mostly of lies and manipulations, you will deliberately ignore sentences that are inconvenient to you and manipulate others to distort the message, you're a liar and a hater, i do not understand nor care why do you hate Poland and Poles but frankly you're so heavily immersed in hatred i cant treat you or anything you say seriously anymore.

sjam, I'm willing to discuss specifics. He was a champion of an idea that, as of yet, hasn't really come to fruition.

He also brought together some of the most influential people on earth, you have to realise that political convergence in Europe just as with most wars or political actions are based on whims of select few rather than a dynamic process.

Its not necceserily the Bilderberg group, who is it is not as relevant as fact that great capital in times when its internationalized has absolute power.
Harry  
27 Mar 2009 /  #253
Harry your posts consist mostly of lies and manipulations, you will deliberately ignore sentences that are inconvenient to you and manipulate others to distort the message, you're a liar and a hater, i do not understand nor care why do you hate Poland and Poles but frankly you're so heavily immersed in hatred i cant treat you or anything you say seriously anymore.

Yes I hate Poland and Poles so much that I choose to live in Poland surrounded by Poles.

Now, back to the non-personal discussion: please explain why neither Romania nor Albania suffered the dire consequences which you claim awaited Poland had Poland not taken part in the invasion of Czechoslovakia.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
27 Mar 2009 /  #254
Who did he bring together then? I don't pretend to be an expert as sjam suggests. My reading between the end of WWII up to the ECSC isn't so varied.

I agree that a whimsical approach works but you are overweighing its importance here.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
27 Mar 2009 /  #255
Now, back to the non-personal discussion: please explain why neither Romania nor Albania suffered the dire consequences which you claim awaited Poland had Poland not taken part in the invasion of Czechoslovakia.

Because neither Romania nor Albania were as crucial as Poland was and before you say it was not, take a look at what happened to communism, Poland sneezed and the entire Warsaw Pact cought the flu, and died.

Poland was a country which had the most liberal policy since Soviets did not dare to try the hardliner policies here but it was also under the most carefull scrutiny, Poland would be put down harder than anyone because it was the key to Warsaw Pacts failure or success so defiance was not taken lightly in Moscow.

Who did he bring together then? I don't pretend to be an expert as sjam suggests. My reading between the end of WWII up to the ECSC isn't so varied.

I'd really need to research this since i've read about it quite some time ago, the point is the guy brought together people like the head of Unilever, Belgian prime minister, the head of CIA, Rotshilds, Rockefellers. He brought together enough international capital, information and influence to rival any country or a power block.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
27 Mar 2009 /  #256
That's hilarious, nunczka. I saw no plane. It is reminiscent of a missile attack. Answer me this, why was the dude's video from the gas station confiscated so quickly? Why was the steel shipped off to Asia so quickly?

The fact is, the Neocons didn't have enough sound technical guys on board to pull it off. They didn't think it through. How does Rummy feel about helping Bin Laden escape?

Sokrates, he brought together the banking dynasty? Whoopdeedoo, I was talking about leading politicians and the role that they played. Who did he russle up?
sjam 2 | 541  
27 Mar 2009 /  #257
Apart from the European Movement, whose aims are largely propagandist and political' ... 'it was he who created the European League for Economic Cooperation.... He inspired the setting up of the Central and Eastern European Commission of the European Movement.... He later founded the Bilderberg Group....These meetings brought together leading statesmen who could discuss their problems in privacy and exchange points of view with men of Actual eminence in other countries. It was Joseph R. who brought them together and knew them all personally. I have travelled a great deal with J. R. his friendships in high places were extraordinary. I remember in the USA his picking up the telephone and immediately making an appointment with the President and in Europe he had the complete entree in every political circle, as a kind of right, acquired through the trust devotion and loyalty he inspired... With his passing, Poland has lost a great patriot and Britain and the free world the inspirer of causes that will have far-reaching intioences on the history of our time'.

Sir E. Beddington-Behrens writing to The Times on the death of Jozef Retinger in 1960.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
27 Mar 2009 /  #258
The man had contacts and used them, that's what many people do these days. With it comes nepotism. Many others could have shared the same vision but not had the means to bring it about.

youtube.com/watch?v=_sstDwKTCpM
this is what secret governments and Bilderberg are about. Nothing to be proud of.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591  
27 Mar 2009 /  #259
...Poland sneezed and the entire Warsaw Pact cought the flu, and died.

Why didn't Poland sneeze much earlier? It was sick for a long time now...

If you mention the founding of the EU you need to also mention Retinger; who was more instrumental in creating what became the EU than probably any other individual :-))))

I really doubt that! :)

...without France and Germany reconciliating and agreeing to share the iron and steel (with one being free to use it to rebuild Europe and the other one allowed to keep a close look on it so that the other one doesn't wreaks havoc with it again) there would never have developed a european community.

THAT was the most important event, a u-turn to the century old hat/revenge/war-thinking in Europe, not some manipulations by some lone shadowy figure and his secret phone calls...

Nobody I know has ever heard of this Retinger....
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
27 Mar 2009 /  #260
...without France and Germany reconciliating and agreeing to share the iron and steel

France and Germany have banks, banks that are either owned or to a great degree dependent on Rotschilds, if Rotschilds together with Rockefellers decide to block any single bank including national banks of both countries they have funds to do that.

(with one being free to use it to rebuild Europe and the other one allowed to keep a close look on it so that the other one doesn't wreaks havoc with it again) there would never have developed a european community.
THAT was the most important event, a u-turn to the century old hat/revenge/war-thinking in Europe, not some manipulations by some lone shadowy figure and his secret phone calls...

You think about it incorrectly, countries operate on money which is largely international, it is enough that people holding the routes the finance flows put pressure on the leading figures of each state and they will have their way.

Nobody I know has ever heard of this Retinger....

Which shows how good the guy was rather than that he did not do his stuff.
sjam 2 | 541  
27 Mar 2009 /  #261
Secret governments—Bilderberg, why not add Carlists, Freemasons the Elders of Zion and the rest; all busy tripping over each other to secretly rule the world—maybe you are eating too much conspiracy theory pie :-))

With respect Retinger wasn't born with his contacts; he found them out and with shared vision acted to change the world. And you think men like Retinger had nothing to be proud of— how so? Based on your own life's contribution—which would be to date?

Józef Retinger:
Director of the London Office of the Polish National Committee (1912–1914)
Representative in the United Kingdom of the Polish Socialist Party (1924–1928)
Personal Adviser to General Plutarco Calles, President of the Republic of Mexico (1919–1936)
Personal Adviser to General W. Sikorski, Prime Minister of Poland (1939–1943)
Initiator of the Interallied Committee of Foreign Ministers (1942–1944)
Co-founder of the Independent League for European Cooperation (1946–1948) and Secretary-General of the European League for Economic Cooperation (1948–1960)
Member of the International Committee of the Movements for European Unity (1947–1948)
Secretary-General of the European Movement (1948–1950)
Co-founder of the Bilderberger Group (1952–1959)
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591  
27 Mar 2009 /  #262
France and Germany have banks, banks that are either owned or to a great degree dependent on Rotschilds, if Rotschilds together with Rockefellers decide to block any single bank including national banks of both countries they have funds to do that.

And that has to do with the vision of a new Europe by French and Germans (Schumacher, Adenauer) after 1945 exactly what?

Which shows how good the guy was rather than that he did not do his stuff.

Well...:)
I just think someone so important for our peaceful, united Europe should at least have his portrait on a coin or a special day...or should get at least mentioned in movies, dokus and EU memorials...

Co-founder of the Independent League for European Cooperation (1946–1948) and Secretary-General of the European League for Economic Cooperation (1948–1960)
Member of the International Committee of the Movements for European Unity (1947–1948)
Secretary-General of the European Movement (1948–1950)
Co-founder of the Bilderberger Group (1952–1959)

Ja...I don't dispute that!
But that has not much with the founding of the EU or their predecessor the European Coal and Steel Community...it just shares the "european" in the name...
sjam 2 | 541  
27 Mar 2009 /  #263
Nobody I know has ever heard of this Retinger....

Well if you haven't heard of him therefore he never existed :-))

Jozef Retinger:Co-founder of the Bilderberger Group (1952–1959)

The Bilderberger's have played a key role in every advance of European supranationalism, from the European Coal and Steel Community to the Common Market to the EU. Ernst van der Beugel, honorary secretary-general of the BG and vice president of the Dutch affiliate of the CFR*, matter-of-factly explains in his 1966 book, From Marshall Aid to Atlantic Partnership, how his Bilderberg-CFR friends in the U.S. government utilized their offices and U.S. funding to strong-arm or bribe European leaders who resisted the European Movement.

*Council on Foreign Relations
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591  
27 Mar 2009 /  #264
haven't heard of him therefore he never existed :-))

I think if I have never heard of him his real achievements are abit doubtful to say at least...
I surely don't believe I'm a "know it all" but I'm a history interested European and if as you say such a "crucial" important person for our European Union is nearly unknown to even interested persons you must understand if that will make some eyebrows rise under some helmets!
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
27 Mar 2009 /  #265
The Polish nation sent 28,000 of its best soldiers to invade a sovereign state and,

Neither Poland nor Czekoslovakia were a sovereign states at the time.

with the exception of one brave man, not a single Pole protested.

Really? And you were there and you saw every single Pole not protesting?

Let's see:

21 VIII interwencja zbrojna Układu Warszawskiego w Czechosłowacji, uczestniczy w niej ponad 20 tysięcy żołnierzy WP; w całej Polsce liczne protesty - odnotowano dziesiątki przypadków pojawienia się ulotek i napisów na murach

August 21 - intervention of Warsaw Pact force in Czechoslovakia, over 20 thousand Polish troops participate, numerous protests all over Poland - dozens of cases of leaflets and writings on walls

marzec1968.pl/portal/m68/799/6938/Kalendarium.html

A popular slogan in Poland at the time was "Polska czeka na Dubèeka" czy "Czekamy na swego Dubèeka" (Poland is waiting for her own Dubèek). Poland's participation in the invasion was and is widely viewed by Poles as dishonor to the Polish military uniform and symbols.

read more here, and translate to the best of your skills how no Poles but one allegedly, did not protests against the invasion.
marzec1968.pl/portal/m68/797/6962/Praska_wiosna.html

Or at least, kindly, translate this letter of protest by Polish students of all Wroclaw universities:

again, do not sensationalize and twist facts as you see fit.



Seanus 15 | 19,706  
27 Mar 2009 /  #266
It was people like Kohl and Mitterand who kept driving forward the EC into the EU. They had well-documented shows of solidarity. Retinger died in 1960, only 3 years after the EEC.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
27 Mar 2009 /  #267
Now, back to the non-personal discussion: please explain why neither Romania nor Albania suffered the dire consequences which you claim awaited Poland had Poland not taken part in the invasion of Czechoslovakia.

Both states were not allied with the Soviet Union. Both states were allied with China.
Harry  
27 Mar 2009 /  #268
Neither Poland nor Czekoslovakia were a sovereign states at the time.

So we're back to the old Nuremberg defense again. Never fails eh? One thing though, if Czechoslovakia was not a sovereign state, why did the Soviets and Poles need to invade it? I mean, surely, if Czechoslovakia was not a sovereign state, the Kremlin could have just told them what to do and it would have been done.

A bit of graffitti and a few flyers is all the Polish protest movement could manage? Bit crap really. In Prague Czechs were taking on Soviet tanks with Molotov cocktails and in Wroclaw the best they could do was write anonymous letters? Siwiec was the only Pole who had no need to feel ashamed of Polish actions in Operation Danube.

Both states were not allied with the Soviet Union. Both states were allied with China.

So neither were members of the Warsaw Pact?
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
27 Mar 2009 /  #269
A bit of graffitti and a few flyers is all the Polish protest movement could manage? Bit crap really.

Translate that flier and tell us what it says.

You wrote:

with the exception of one brave man, not a single Pole protested.

I proved you wrong.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
27 Mar 2009 /  #270
So neither were members of the Warsaw Pact?

They were but Albania withdrew its support in 1961 as a result of the Sino-Soviet split, formally left in 1968. Romania stayed but was closer to China anyway. For example Romania participated in Olympic Games in the US, ignoring Soviet boycott. Romanian did not break diplomatic relations with Israel after 1967.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_split#Onset_of_the_split

For a time, the polemics between the two parties remained indirect, with the Chinese denouncing Tito and the Soviets denouncing China's ally, Enver Hoxha of Albania, in a war of words by proxy. But in June 1960, the split became public, at the congress of the Romanian Communist Party, when Khrushchev and China's Peng Zhen openly clashed. Khrushchev called Mao "a nationalist, an adventurist, and a deviationist". Mao called Khrushchev a revisionist and criticized his "patriarchal, arbitrary and tyrannical" behavior. Khrushchev followed his verbal attack by delivering an eighty-page letter to the conference, denouncing China.

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