No Way, No Apology! Poland has every right to support Georgia!

How could Poland do that?

Well, that's a very complicated issue but let's say... If America can import oil half the world from Saudi Arabia then why Poland couldn't do the same ?

Coal?

But it is topic and now we need to play our cards somewhere... and Russian gas from Germans means concesions for Russia and rof Germany. Russian gas from Russians means concesions only for Russians... simple.

?


Well...and the difference to now is what exactly???

You get already your gas only from the Russians...
Germany has no gas to sell!

You build pipe line jut to avoid Poland. Now Russians can't cut off Poland because they will cut off you ...

Nord Stream is 3-4 times more expenisve than alternative way thorught baltic states. What is more it is dangerous for enviroment.

I am just telling you consequences of such project...

Prince, you are free to refuse to buy our gas. Nobody here forces you to buy it, thus you can deliver it from Saudi Arabia as it is proposed by Gzhegoz

We are going to be allies and you know that Kostik... :) Lets hugg

Why should they want to cut you off?
Do you plan to stop paying? Do you plan to to invade Russia?

As far as I know Russia never just "cut off" delivery...

About what are you so afraid? So paranoid? Remember these are the same
Russians who you want to get chummy with...


Well...than you better stop your anti-pipeline speeches Luki....you know what's good is for your good chum Russia must make you happy too, right? :)

They have threaten do do so durring war in Georgia. Germany build 3 times more expenisve pipe line just to avoid Poland and Baltic states. I just show you future result of such action... Germany will cry because this poker is going to look much different than you think.

Any links?


Well...I really doubt you know what Germany thinks...and you better start to become more friendly with Russia right now because nothing it's going to change because of the new pipeline!

But still your thoughts show an unhealthy sign of paranoia....you hate the pipeline fearing a threatening Russia but once it's build you will hug Russia and going into an alliance with them..

Luki...that is NOT logical! :)

Now we are going to build what ever we want with who ever we want on our Polish soil. Germany is not realiable partner. This pipe line is 3 times more expenive than alternative pipe line. South Stream has the same aims.

Germany makes great business but in result we are going to be dependent on Russia... so it is better to make better deals with them than with this whole weak corrupted EU...

BB trust me this pipe line is very bad for europe and especialy for Germany ...

If we don't play in one team ...

....because they plan to build a new pipeline with Russia fearing Poland get's cut off BY RUSSIA?

But Russia is reliable...that's why you want to go into an alliance with them, yes?

Luki? Do you have an idea how that sounds??? :)


You ARE already dependent on Russia...nothing it's going to change....you get the same gas from Russia as before!


You still didn't told me WHY???

You are right but lets face it the reason for the new pipeline that cost more is a direct insult to Poland. It has given the back door to Russia into EU and caused bs between EU members.

Here in Germany we actually believe the Poles protest that loudly just out of fear to lose a nice additional free income, the fee for allowing the pipeline to use their territory, so the compassion is limited...

The calculators know that the pipeline will be cheaper in the end!

Naturally, if Saudis will sell to the Great Satan, they'll probably sell to you too. ;- )

Supposedly they have a new field in Khurais, 27 billion barrels. This more oil than all the proven reserves in the US.

Anyway, shipping probably wouldn't be a logistics nightmare.

My 5 cents for Würstel:

Germany is losing its leading position in the EU - both in sense of economy and politics.
Look at the stats - once the European champ, today far behind the top economies.
Yesterday the main creator of the Union, today splitting European solidarity in the name of the old German craze - "cooperation" with Russia.

Just some examples of this cooperation:

Volga - Germans are back in Allemania crying for more Harz IV.
Baltic Germans elite, once very useful for the Czarist Russia, long ago killed by bolsheviks.
Ruined East-Germany, former Kremlin's darling, costs the Bundes tax payers about 100 billions euro every year.

Same goes for the Baltic pipe line.
Even a child knows that buying more candies will bring you a better price.
But obviously not in Germany.
Corrupted chancellor sells European gas business to KGB, for personal benefits.
"Smart" German businessmen believe it will help to catch up with leading economies and I'm more than sure German taxpayer should get ready to pay again.

Germany is losing its leading position in the EU?? I don't think so. To who, Britain? LOL, don't make me laugh.

As for Sarkozy, he is wasting his time on international duty, pointing the finger here and there but not doing much else.

Did you have Romania in mind? Prodi would be proud of you :)

Nord Stream is the best prove that Germans can't be trusted... at least in our part of europe.

Agreements with Germans are worth nothing all their neghbours now that...

Huh???
Would you be so kind to explain that?
We are world export champion, we have regularly a budget surplus for years now. If it wouldn't had been for the credit crunch we would have no debts anymore, our unemployment numbers were steadily going down...that you call lacking???

Now the american/british credit crunch devastated the world economies but you say Germany is somehow at fault??? Are you kidding???


I think most Germans would be quite glad not to be the paymaster for whole Europe anymore....imagine all the billions saved for our own!

But who else would take the place?

The biggest and most influential economy in Europe who with their money helps to finance the EU!
Germany position get's to change only if these factors change too...so who it's going to be? Poland???

Another question...who would and could take Germany's place in your mind? And what would that mean for Poland?


Well..you said you don't trust the Russians too, you fear they could blackmail you and still you want to make an alliance with them...huh?

PS: About Sarkozy..you shouldn't confuse his half year in the sun during the EU leadership with real influence, now shouldn't you? He grates on the nerves on most French already too...:)

I agree with BB, there is no other sizeable economy who could take no1 spot from Germany. They have exported everything under the sun.

This seems to be Polish politics, blow with the wind until you find a suitable direction.

Now Czechs are going to lead Europe and In my opinion it is going to be interesting 6 months.

Polish politics after Borrka and Luki would be anti-german just for the sake of it! :)

But modern polish real politik is a whole lot more rational...for the sake of their own country...

Nord Stream is anti-Polish ... all analises clearly show it...

But anti-polish by whom?
It isn't going to be Germany who is going to cut you off but Russia.
But still you prefer an alliance with Russia...that is not logical thinking Luki.
You should really work to get a grip on your Germanophobia or you will
never again make objective and rational judgements!

If we play in one team so we should play in one team ... It is not Germanophobia. Gaspipe line avoiding whole our region is very dangerous for our safty. It is anti-Polish. If you prefere Russia than other EU members ...

One of results of Nord Stream can what I've been talking before.

Erm...it's like talking with a brick wall! :)

1.) WHY is this pipeline dangerous for Poland

and

2.) WHY do you conclude therefore an alliance with Russia would be a good idea...

please!

It is dangerous for our natural enviroment and energetic safety.


It will be one of possible results.

*sighs*

Okay...

It is dangerous for Polands "energetic safety"...because???

And why would an alliance with Russia therefore a good idea?

Please!

Because it is much safer for Poland to have gas pipe line which secure west with gas. Pipe line which avoids Poland makes us feel that we are in danger especialy that Russian policiticans so many times claimed that they are going to use gas pipe lines as political tool. Not to mention natural enviroment. This pipe line is several times more expensive than alternative.


It may be the result of this pipe line...