Poland-Turkey Relations, a youtube comment

yaddayaddayadda


Cut the crap!
You don't even want their immigrants...

What the **** is that supposed to mean? Are you denying the barbaric
and inhuman behaviour of nazi animals in Poland during WW2?
6 million people including women and babies slaughtered and you say
"yadaydayada"? WTF are you? Some kind of a village idiot?


I don't mind their immigrants. I'll simply let them choose the country
they want to go to. If they choose Poland, then very well, let them
come.

Why should I deny anything?
It just get's boring, especially if you harp on about this and at the same
time want your collegues to forget the experiences your brethren had with the Turks.
You know..."can't we all be buddies now...it has been so long..."
Sounds abit unbelievable!


Oh they will!

Their immigrants at least...not Turkey as as member!

yes, if there was a medieval Slavic nobleman, a knight, that believed in a mutual Slavic ancestry that was Zawisza. He lived that, he defended it, he died for it. Truly, togather with other Draconists (members of Dragon order), noblemans... Miloš Obilić (foundator of Order), Kosanèić Ivan, Toplica Milan, Serbian Prince Stefan Lazarević,...all togather to the famous Polish King Jan Sobieski (Grand Master of Order in his time),... Zawisza was among last Sarmatians.

Glory to Polish and Serbian nobility that defended honour of Sarmatia!

All I was saying is that there's no point in bearing a grudge against Turkey
for what they did in in the Middle Ages or 17th century if we are willing
to forgive something much worse done by Germany and Soviet Union much
later than that.

And we must forgive (not forget!) if we want to get on well on a daily
basis and build common future in the EU.

Who is forcing you?
You don't have to if you don't want...you can mope alone in your corner for all I care!

Most people don't want Turkey not because of something they did far back but because what they are TODAY.
Ask the kurds, the murdered writers and opposition, the murdered and opressed christians etc.
That is far more important than some spat some centuries back but you don't seem to show much interest for that either.
You nearly threw a fit accusing me of denying WWII atrocities but you believe Turks who are still denying (and killing for that) the genocide of the Armenians as nice, cuddly and honorable??? Gimme a break!

No, Turks will not rush into Europe.
Turkey has 10.000 USD GDP per capita. Turkey is not a poor country as 40 years ago.
We have to solve income distribution injustice. That's all.
But, I am happy, as a German you underestimate Turkey and Turks.
I wish your government think so. But, they don't. They are very concerned to see a fast developing strong Turkey.

out of empathy or because this meant that strategically russia was closer to the balkans which the ottoman empire then controlled?

Whatever their motives were, they supported us, even though they were our
long time enemy. It may only have been a verbal and diplomatic support but
still it was more than we got from any other country.

They kept our embassy open for 123 years until 1918 when Poland regained
independence. They also gave shelter to many Polish refugees after the partitions
and uprisings although they didn't have to do it (there are still Polish villages in
Turkey as the one I posted a link to in one of my earlier posts).

Many of our generals fought on Ottoman side:

Abdülkerim Pascha (1807–1885)
Seweryn Bieliński alias Nihad Pascha (1815–1895)
Feliks Klemens Brański alias Schahyn Pascha (1794–1884)
Michail Czajkowski alias Mehmet Sadik Pascha (1804–1886)
Antoni Aleksander Iliński alias Iskender Pascha (1814–1861)

After the Ottoman period we've had good relationships and balanced
affairs with Turkey and that gives us a good basis for future co-operation.

As for the problems they have with acknowledging the massacre of Armenians
or human rights issues, I'm quite sure that they will be dealt with in an appropriate
manner and those obstacles on Turkish way to EU will soon be removed.

my complete body is provocative, not to mention my mind


i concur


why common future? Why not cooperation out of EU? I am sure that there is better alternative for Slavs then EU

You think that there is no future without EU.... you probably point on destine of Yugoslavia and Serbians... if you aren`t with EU, then you even don`t have right to live?? Is that your point?

EU is maybe good for Turks and their friends but, Serbians don`t share such an entusiasm. I don`t know for Poles... Poles believe in EU??

Come on... don't offend animals...

Belarus has more.


Don't be fooled.The Turks tried to keep you as a counterbalance to the increasing power of Russia which was threatening for them.They relied on the nobelity of Poles for that.

Really when did Turkey actively help Poland in any issue?(let's say during partitions).They had no motivation to do so.And of course both Krakow and Vienna were in danger during ottoman invasion in 1683 that is why Poland signed treaty of common defense with Austria.

Look mate, I have a lot of sympathy for Serbia and other Slavic countries but the
problem with any kind of Slavic union is that it would most likely be dominated by
Russia and I can't have that.

Not because I bear some serious grudge against Russia, far from it. Simply I believe
that there is an essential difference between Latin civilization Slavic countries
(Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia and Croatia) and Byzantine civilization
Slavic countries (Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia and Bulgaria).

All the Latin civilization Slavic countries except Croatia are already in the EU and
I believe that that's the right place to be for us, with other countries that share
our civilizational values.

You mean catholic countries.

Latin civilization is not only about religion. It's also a certain approach
to political life, society and law (you can read more about it in the
works of Feliks Koneczny).

Russia to dominate over Serbians?? Believe me, its mission impossible. Russians are aware of it. Why you think that Russia hesistate to completely support Serbia? Well, Serbians don`t sell themselves


you have prejudices

Serbians resisted to Byzantine dominaton in the region same way as they resited to Rome`s dictate

:-)

There's not a single prejudiced bone in my body, mate - believe me.

But when I'm in Poland or Czech Republic I see different civilizational
traits than when I visit Ukraine or Russia and that's why I believe that
Poland's place is with EU and not within some enigmatic Slavia or
Slavic Union (call it as you want).

Moreover, most Poles share my views and they see, apart from downsides,
also obvious benefits of our accession to European Union.


I really don't know about Serbia, maybe as you say it's somewhere on the
borderline between Latin and Byzantine civilizations but regardless of that
if you fulfill certain initial requirements, you'll also be allowed to join (if your
people wish to join us, of course).

I agree with you 100% on this one, Crow.

It's a disgrace what happened there, and it's a disgrace that our
government was so quick to recognize the independence of Kosovo.

Kosovo je Srbija!

hvala. Thank you

Remember SZCZERBIEC and RACOWIE! Remember south of Sarmatia and grawe of Zawisha Czarny!

Latin civilization left remnants where the Romans were,that is all over the Mediteranean Sea.

Yes, but it was also spread to other areas of Europe like Ireland (we owe the
survival of many ancient works of literature to Irish monks) or Central Europe,
together with catholic religion, Roman law and different civilizational
traits that constitute the Latin civilization (for example in XVII/XVIII century
you could travel throught Poland and if you didn't know Polish, you could easily
communicate in Latin not only with clergymen but also with noblemen and
merchants).

All these places actually dismissed the rule of the roman Empire.Roman Empire and its laws survived only in the eastern mediteranean sea as Byzantine Empire which was the natural successor and kept the law and organizational forms of Roman Empire.

I have noticed that the mentality of people where Roman Empire actually was and ruled differs drastically from the areas where Roman Empire was absent or ruled for a very short time.

Poland was one of the very first countries to adopt the Gregorian calendar in 1582 along with Italy, Spain and Portugal. If that's not a Latin-type thing to do, I don't know what is. It took until 1918 for Russia to change and until 1926 for Turkey. Orthodox churches still use the Julian calendar, but the countries where this is used, civil calendars are all Gregorian. It took a while for harmonisation to complete.

Not all of them.


Why should Italy be considered latin at a time it was ruled by Goths?Anyway.

"Since the tenth century, Poland has been one of the eastern marches of the
Western World (...) Poland's national culture has value as one of a number of
national versions of a common Western or as Feliks Koneczny prefers to call it,
Latin culture; and Roman Catholic Christianity has value as being the
Western form of Christianity par excellence."

More here: sci.pam.szczecin.pl/~fasting/files/download/Koneczny/strona.htm

Who is this Feliks Koneczny?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feliks_Koneczny

Byzantine civilization in Germany?I don't think so.Maybe before WW1 but again it does not seem as such.What I see in Europe is western civilization,mediteranean civilization and slavic civilization.

How is Western different from Mediterranean? Would you class France as Western
or Mediterranean? And there certainly isn't one "Slavic civilization" for sure.
Where does Romania belong in your vision... or Hungary, or Baltic states?

I don't agree with everything Koneczny said, but in my opinion the Europe today
has only two civilizations: Latin (or Western if you prefer) which consists of EU,
Croatia, Norway, Switzerland and Iceland, and Byzantine/Turan civilization (the
rest of Europe). Serbia may be a possible exception here, not easily qualified
into any of these two groups.

That's how I understand it anyway, it's always good to see how people from
other countries view our continent.

A lot of differences from organization to a whole lot of schemes.I could call it western civilization with protestant ethics.


Most of France is western.The south France is mediteranean.


Balkans.It is possible to further divide mediteranean civilization to italian,spanish and balkan.


Hungary belongs to the austrohungarian civilization which has features from both western(germanic) and slavic civilizations.


Western except from the russian minorities of course which have slavic civilization.

Turkey has a population of 73.000.000 and member of G20.
By means of GDP 17.th greatest economy of the world.
Belarus, Greece etc. is not in our category.