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THOUSANDS OF YOUNG ISRAELIS FLOODING POLAND


Miru 1 | 24  
26 Apr 2009 /  #61
Ela... you don't understand. What we mean is that 99% of anti-semitic graffiti in Poland is not directed against Jews but... "Jews". And most hooligans have problems with distinguishing one from another. I'm currently reading some sites of Wisła and Cracovia fans and judging from the comments most of them can't seem to tell a difference. For them all Jews are Cracovia fans and all Cracovia fans are Jews.

Plus, there's something called "Holy War". Cracovia has hooligans calling themselves 'Jude Gang', Wisła fans have recently gained nickname 'Hamas'.
Some of the comments -
"Po wsez czasy tylko Pasy !!!
wiśldcki psie pamiętaj o swoim policyjnym rodowodzie ___ waszą matką jest mILICJA !!!
Jestem za Cracovią, w takim razie "jestem" Żydem i się tego nie wstydzę!!! CRACOVIA FOREVER !!!" - loose translation - Stripes Forever! Remember your police roots Wisła dog - your mother is Milicja (communist police). I'm all for Cracovia and therefore I am a Jew and I'm not ashamed of it!!! CRACOVIA FOREVER !!!

"NO w kurwe...jaki antysemityzm...ja pierdole...każdy wie ze nie chodzi o rodowitych żydów,tlyko o te laski zza błoń... JEBAĆ ŻYDÓW!! TYLKO WIS£A!!" - What the ****... what anti-semitism... ****... everybody knows that it's not about nationality but those cracovia *******... **** JEWS!! ONLY WISłA!!
yehudi 1 | 433  
26 Apr 2009 /  #62
I had no idea about the football meaning. So your telling me that "Jew" is simply an insult to a team that used to be multi-ethnic. So I guess if i hated someone (not Polish) and I chose to call him a "Pole" as an insult, that would make sense. And of course no Pole would take offense at that.
McCoy 27 | 1,269  
26 Apr 2009 /  #63
sure. cause everything is about intentions. even if the guy has nothing against poles but he knows that thats a form of offence he would be pissed. and on the opposite, if you jokingly call your friend a motherfvcker he would just laught cause he would know that you have no bad intentions. is this an answer youve been expecting?

cracovia was called jewish club because of their jewish players, jewish supporters and jewish guys who had part in establishing the club. cracovias jewishness wasnt an insult it was a fact. now they are called like that because of history and they do not deny it and dont feel ashamed about this fact. so just stop overreacting.
Miru 1 | 24  
26 Apr 2009 /  #64
If a group of Israelis proudly called themselves Poles and waved a polish flag I would've been happy.
pawian 179 | 16,284  
26 Apr 2009 /  #65
Pawian, let's assume that approximately 300 Catholic Poles were responsible for painting the anti-Jewish graffiti you presented, presumably in Kraków.

Yes, it is correct.

Have you been to Israel yet?

I haven`t heard of such a phenomenon.

wiśldcki psie pamiętaj o swoim policyjnym rodowodzie ___ waszą matką jest mILICJA !!!
Stripes Forever! Remember your police roots Wisła dog - your mother is Milicja (communist police).

Cracovia fans head the list of most dangerous in Poland. They are responsible for a few deaths of their opponents over several years, stabbed with knives.

I had no idea about the football meaning. So your telling me that "Jew" is simply an insult to a team that used to be multi-ethnic.

If a group of Israelis proudly called themselves Poles and waved a polish flag I would've been happy.

Tricky problem.... :):):)
Miru 1 | 24  
26 Apr 2009 /  #66
Cracovia fans head the list of most dangerous in Poland. They are responsible for a few deaths of their opponents over several years, stabbed with knives.

Wisła's Sharks and Devils also have quite an impressive body count... Sadly there are black sheep in every group of fans.
derek trotter 10 | 203  
26 Apr 2009 /  #67
from the songs they were singing its seems to me they are poor bastards ( hip hop things )
yehudi 1 | 433  
27 Apr 2009 /  #68
I have an idea. Let's get the "thousands of young israelis flooding poland" to go to cracovia football games and cheer the home team! Then after the game we can have riots of Jews and Poles breaking beer bottles over each other's heads, just like the good old days.
ungar 1 | 10  
13 May 2009 /  #69
Pity the Polish skinheads.They must hide in the basements ,when the Isralies come to Poland to march in the streets and when they leave,poor Polish hoodlums have to see psychiatrists,so they can deal with anxiety.
isthatu2 4 | 2,703  
13 May 2009 /  #70
Kids are Kids.
"Walking in groups being told not to wander off..."
Well,d'oh, have you ever been responsible for a group of teenagers on a foriegn trip? Trust me,if you had you wouldnt be surprised at this reaction when youve got little Johnny/Janek or Avi in your care with their parents thousands of miles away....

Bad behaviour by Israeli tour groups? Yep,Ive witnessed it first hand. When with a group from my collage here in the UK we were astonished to see gangs of young Israelis wandering around Au'I,stammlager, drapped in their national flag! What was all that about,wasnt it blind nationalism like this that brought about death camps?

Ive also seen my students being shoved out of the way by Israeli "teachers"as they barged past us in the cellers of block 11. After which I made a point abut telling those around me that the people Gassed in here were 250 Polish catholics and 600+ Russian soldiers....

I dont even need to elaborate on the attitude of the Isrealis to our Asian students,not fear or suspision but open hate,which surprised the Hindu lad no end :)

What really pi**ed me off though was on arrivall at the Stammlager being greated off our coach by someone Shaloming us.....only one of our party was Jewish,of course British embaresment meant we all,muslim lads included Shalomed back...only later finding out the guy greating us wasnt Jewish...no wonder so many of opur students were surprised to discover the full history of auschwitz,ie pre spring 42, the avarage comment being "I didnt know that any non Jewish people were killed here....".
Salomon 2 | 436  
13 May 2009 /  #71
Cracovia fans

I've been always thinking why Cracovia fans claim to be "Jude Gang"

Wisła claims to be "White Star Army":

In result half of city is in such posters: I wouldn't connect this graffiti with Israelis.
yehudi 1 | 433  
14 May 2009 /  #72
What was all that about,wasnt it blind nationalism like this that brought about death camps?

Let me enlighten you with the jewish point of view: What brought about the death camps was a pathological and evil hatred of Jews. The draping of Israeli flags is a blatant statement that means "We are still alive and we are still proud Jews".

Technically that message would have been more appropriate to express in Birkenau and not Auschwitz I, but that difference is a bit much to expect from high-school kids.

I dont even need to elaborate on the attitude of the Isrealis to our Asian students,not fear or suspision but open hate,which surprised the Hindu lad no end

That would really surprise me. Israelis are known for loving India and its people. Going on a treck to india after army service is a very common thing among Israeli young people. If you saw hate it was probably your misinterpretation or maybe a reaction to something your students might have said.

In general, Israeli kids are under a very emotional overload when they visit Auschwitz or Maidanek. This can't be compared to what your students might be going through. For Israeli kids this is very personal.
McCoy 27 | 1,269  
14 May 2009 /  #73
oh, so when they misbehave during the visit in Auschwitz museum and have wild parties in hotel rooms its just their emotional reaction for what they saw. now its so obvious. thanks yehudi.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
14 May 2009 /  #74
True, whenever they smear their own crap on the hotel walls its because of the deep emotional trauma, elderly Poles beaten up are also because they might be *gasp* anti-semit!!!!!!!!1111111
isthatu2 4 | 2,703  
14 May 2009 /  #75
Let me enlighten you with the jewish point of view:

Please,thats what I like,to find all perspectives to try to reach an understanding. I do feel slightly guilty for posting what I did incase it just contributes to perpetuating myths and rumours,but unfortunatly it was something I witnessed with my own eyes and felt reather more disapointed than angry. I understand that they are young and that this must be a hugely emotional experiance for many of them,and I also understand the idea of sticking up 2 fingers to the world and making a proud statement with the Flag. Just not in such a place,please remember it is not a soley Jewish place of pilgramage,I know you will know this as every year the commemerations feature Jewish,Polish catholic,Roma and other speakers/survivors,so I feel this should be a place for solemm reflection,not Patriotism. Drape the flags everywhere else if you wish,as flags go its one of the more attractive after all :)

Technically that message would have been more appropriate to express in Birkenau and not Auschwitz I, but that difference is a bit much to expect from high-school kids.

I sort of agree,but again,ALL the camps in that place,in fact almost all the camps in the german sphere of influence were not only exclusivly places of murdered Jewish people,they are tragedys for the whole world,not one part,however the percentages play out,to claim overlordship to the suffering.

let me just point out this comes from someone who,as Ive said else where on here ,Ive probably been to more than the avarage amount of places connected to the holocausts various strands than the avarage "christian" Briton,and on my own ,not as part of some morning day trip before a jolly to the salt mines...Im also going to play the old,some of my best friends are____card,the difference here being that it rarely comes up,peoples faith seems less relevant here

That would really surprise me. Israelis are known for loving India and its people.

Yes,I know that and so did he,but,he isnt "obviously " hindu,no turban or anything ,just "british asian" looking. Who knows where the kids came from,who am I to judge if they were say from Sderot or someplace,in the 80s early 90s when I was their age the sound of a northern irish accent in a pub could cause a little unease.....

This can't be compared to what your students might be going through. For Israeli kids this is very personal.

I will pull you up on this one,if you dont mind. How do you know what "my" kids were going through(and I sound soppy here but I do believe kids are not mine or yours but "ours" to guide and look out for.) many in my part of the UK are of Polish heratage,many indead lost relatives in those camps or to death squads,Im not one to believe that the act of shooting someone in the back of the neck or letting them burn in a barn is any more or less abhorent depending on who the victims ancestors were. We also had a Jewish lady as amuture student on one of the trips,so,is her British Jewishness less valid than "your" Israeli Jewishness?

But again,maybe Im an idealist,but I sincerely feel that a tragedy and a crime against innocents is a terrible thing for anyone to try to understand, I feel no more pain for the suffering my ancestors felt in either the Highland clearances after the 45 on one side(where families were ethnically cleansed and often burned in their farms) or for my Irish ancestors in the potatoe famine than I do for the suffering of the jewish people in the last war or the innocent german children killed in the RAFs firebombing raids.It all sickens me to the same mindnumbing level.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
14 May 2009 /  #76
For Israeli kids this is very personal.

So you're saying that Israel and Israeli kids are not savage little anti-Polish racists? That all the violence and agression directed specifically against Poles for the express reason of being Polish and schools teaching hateful propaganda against Poles are just some "emotional overload"?

Israel is anti-Polish, Israeli Jews have a problem with anti-Polish prejudice that dwarfs any anti-semitism expressed anywhere in the world, avoiding the problem makes it worse.
Salomon 2 | 436  
14 May 2009 /  #77
Yes because young Poles after visiting graveyards and seaying opera in Lwow go sleep and don't party ...
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
14 May 2009 /  #78
They ceirtanly dont beat Ukrainians up, dont assault citizens on a racial basis and demolish property like Jews in Poland do.
Harry  
14 May 2009 /  #79
Do Ukrainians use Polish tombstones as doorsteps? I know that some Poles are quite happy for a Jewish tombstone to be used as a doorstep.
McCoy 27 | 1,269  
14 May 2009 /  #80
this misterious tombstone again. post a picture harry or give us the address where this ugly racist polacks live.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
14 May 2009 /  #81
Do Ukrainians use Polish tombstones as doorsteps? I know that some Poles are quite happy for a Jewish tombstone to be used as a doorstep.

You're lying Harry but thats ok, you've been doing it for quite some time now.
Wroclaw 44 | 5,384  
14 May 2009 /  #82
I don't think he is. An allotment was closed in Wroclaw about 15 years ago and all the paving (tombstones) were returned to the adjoining cemetery. Some of these tombstones were even used as makeshift table tops. I know because I saw it. The cemetery then had its walls repaired and was closed to the public.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
15 May 2009 /  #83
Oh i know that there's people using tombstones as doorsteps, not even specifically jewish, i myself saw an example of a guy using one to support a bench, when i told him its wrong he just gave me a wtf kind of look, simple folk just dont care its not a sign of hatred or prejudice, its just that Harry is a hateful little fvck and made up that particular story, i tried hard i even called the office he directed me to, nothing.

Plus you got to admit he is a dishonest little shite when it comes to Poland.
jonni 16 | 2,485  
15 May 2009 /  #84
For reference:

UPDATE: In Poland, Jewish communal property including the burial grounds has been recovered. Most Jewish burial grounds will need to be refenced under the direction of the Union of Jewish Congregations in Poland: P. Kadelcik, President, Union of Jewish Congregations in Poland, Ul Twarda 6, 00950 Warsaw, Poland. Over the past two years, Sheila Grossnass has been trying to begin a restoration and refencing project for the Zamosc burial grounds. The mayor of Zamosc's responsibility for the reclamation.has been transferred to Union of Jewish Congregations in Poland.

and other references at the same site.

Source: [jewishgen.org/Cemetery/e-europe/pol-x-z.html]
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
15 May 2009 /  #85
Do Ukrainians use Polish tombstones as doorsteps? I know that some Poles are quite happy for a Jewish tombstone to be used as a doorstep.

Harry's usual attempts at thick skinned, paradoxically, subtlety:

Do Ukrainians use Polish tombstones as doorsteps?

Suggests a habit, a rule.

I know that some Poles are quite happy for a Jewish tombstone to be used as a doorstep.

Some, but those who do are happy to do that.

Well, Harry.

Poles DON NOT use tomb stones as door steps any more than Poles speak Japanese. Some do, most don't. As to their alleged "happiness" - I'm sure they would have been happier to be able to get/afford properly designed and cut material for the purpose.

Now, are all people born in Australia fools and anti-polish propagandists? I don't think so. Just because you are happy to bash Poles every chance you get doesn't mean all Aussies are.
Harry  
15 May 2009 /  #86
its just that Harry is a hateful little fvck and made up that particular story

I would suggest that you ask SeanBM about it, he's seen a photo of the doorstep/tomb stone in question.

i tried hard i even called the office he directed me to, nothing.

You liar (although what's new there?). I didn't direct you to any office, so you couldn't have made another of the famous phone calls which you supposedly make to offices (like the one you made to the Police to complain about me talking about Polish concentration camps).

Suggests a habit, a rule.

No, it suggests a permanent situation. And seeing how this particular doorstep has been in use for more than 50 years, not even you could claim that it is just temporary.

As to their alleged "happiness" - I'm sure they would have been happier to be able to get/afford properly designed and cut material for the purpose.

So it's OK to be a bigot if one is poor?
The owners of that house have been offered a free properly designed and cut piece of material for that purpose: they declined the offer.

Now, are all people born in Australia fools and anti-polish propagandists? I don't think so. Just because you are happy to bash Poles every chance you get doesn't mean all Aussies are.

You carry on thinking that people can be classified based on the place they were born, shows you for the narrow-minded bigot you are.
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
15 May 2009 /  #87
No, it suggests a permanent situation. And seeing how this particular doorstep has been in use for more than 50 years, not even you could claim that it is just temporary.

In English grammar, the Present Tense does suggest a rule, in addition to a habit.
Your posts now suggests the it is a Polish habit to use tombstones as door steps. Since you claim this, and since this is not true that makes you a liar.

The owners of that house have been offered a free properly designed and cut piece of material for that purpose: they declined the offer.

OK, so the owner of the house is a bigot, possibly and anti-semite. That still doesn't mean that Poles have a habit of using tombstones as door steps.

You carry on thinking that people can be classified based on the place they were born, shows you for the narrow-minded bigot you are.

See how it feels differently when I bounce back exactly the same at you?
Will you ever get the point, or will you remain an anti-Polish bigot for the rest of your life, which began as such as unfortunate, as you put it, "accident"?
southern 75 | 7,096  
15 May 2009 /  #88
that Poles have a habit of using tombstones as door steps.

I use bones as door steps.
szkotja2007 27 | 1,498  
16 May 2009 /  #89
I admit, I haven't read the whole thread but unfortunately cemeteries being desecrated isn't just a Jewish/Polish phenomenom.

In every country in the land this happens to an extent. Not just Jewish graves.

The link posted highlighting the damage also highlighted the good care some cemeteries have recieved from the local communities.
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
16 May 2009 /  #90
In every country in the land this happens to an extent. Not just Jewish graves.

For some of the best examples visit any Museum of stature and stop by their "Ancient Egypt" section.

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