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THOUSANDS OF YOUNG ISRAELIS FLOODING POLAND


z_darius 14 | 3,968  
17 Apr 2009 /  #31
The actual figure was between 180,000 and 240,000 but well done with the attempt at getting an anti-semitic lie in.

Yes, the actual figure fluctuates depending on the need of the moment :)

Have you heard of the concept of inheritance? When you die your property will be divided between your heirs.

Yes, I have. But here we have a reverse case where 10,000 people are supposed to inherit after a death of 3 million. Of course, that is assuming that all the 10,000 survivors actually owned a property in Poland (majority of Polish Jews are known to have been poor), that the property was not damaged by the Germans, and that proof exists to avoid fraudulent claims.

Polish law is most specific about this (although Polish law will not apply to proud Pole like you).

If you insist on the application of Polish law then it does have provisions for squatters. Unless the law changed in recent years, nobody is in a position to claim any property that had been lost such a long stime ago.

After their homes had been stolen by Poles, they needed to steal some replacement homes. Maybe the Palestinians should come to Poland and steal homes here?

Yet again, you continue to be inconsistent in your approach to various nationalities.
In fact Poles who, as you claim "stole" empty properties did so because their properties had been stolen in the East. Well, Harry, you have a big crusade ahead of you. Time to hit a Russian and Ukrainian forum or two.

To sum up, your stupidity is incredible in its consistency and its ability to hit new lows so often. You latest argument seems to give people the right to steal from you anything that you own and that had been previously stolen from them.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
17 Apr 2009 /  #32
[103] = A. Stankowski, Studia z historii Zydow w Polsce po 1945 roku, Warszawa 2000, pp.107-111. [/quote]

Even if you were right (you are not, it is for the state to prove that somebody is not who they say they are) how many of that few hundred have been addressed?

Quite a few got compensation in the civil court but they had solid proof, typically they were children of deceased parents with papers or the owners themselves, and no its not for the state to prove, you need to have proof of being an owner to property otherwise your claims are void.

Poland does not have many of the records since they were destroyed and even those existing cannot be used to reinforce Jewish claims since these people usually have no proof of ownership, no papers, nothing.

"Between 40,000 and 100,000 Polish Jews survived the Holocaust in Poland by

Like i said up to 120.000 i'm glad we've confirmed you lied in your previous post.

Another 50,000–170,000 were repatriated from the Soviet Union and 20,000–40,000 from Germany and other countries.

These people would not be entitled to any money since they were enforced upon Polish goverment which was not our sovereign decision.

But then again i'm all for giving symbolic compensation to the communist Jews who've been expelled, these are some 20000 people and they never owned much, you completely miss the point, the bulk of Jewish demands is the pre-war property to which they have virtually no legal claim lacking proof of ownership.
Harry  
17 Apr 2009 /  #33
You latest argument seems to give people the right to steal from you anything that you own and that had been previously stolen from them.

Do you have many convictions for handling stolen goods? Merely buying something does not automatically make you the legal owner of that property.

Unless the law changed in recent years, nobody is in a position to claim any property that had been lost such a long stime ago.

There is the problem: Poland has no property restitution law.

10,000 people are supposed to inherit after a death of 3 million. Of course, that is assuming that all the 10,000 survivors actually owned a property in Poland (majority of Polish Jews are known to have been poor), that the property was not damaged by the Germans, and that proof exists to avoid fraudulent claims.

Do stop with the 10,000 lie, your cover there has already been blown.
If the property was damaged then it should still be given back and the repairer (usually the Polish state) properly compensated.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
17 Apr 2009 /  #34
Do you have many convictions for handling stolen goods?

How about you shut the frack up you vicious anti-Polish liar? 95% of all Jewish property they demand money for is pre-war, we didnt steal anything, the Jews who owned it are dead and the Jews who demand it demand it simply because they are Jews and by some twisted logic they think they deserve money by assosiation, they dont have any legal claim upon it.

There is the problem: Poland has no property restitution law.

Which doesnt change the fact that Jews who can prove it did receive compensation, the problem is that almost none of them can prove ownership and still demand money.

If the property was damaged then it should still be given back and the repairer (usually the Polish state) properly compensated.

What property? The communist Jews who were expelled owned a couple of thousands flats, maybe a few hundred houses and perhaps a few dozen small companies, many of these were state owned and simply rented to Jews, the value of property actually taken by communist goverment is minuscule, the Jewish demands massive.
Harry  
17 Apr 2009 /  #35
Harry:
"Between 40,000 and 100,000 Polish Jews survived the Holocaust in Poland by
Like i said up to 120.000 i'm glad we've confirmed you lied in your previous post.

The full quote is "Between 40,000 and 100,000 Polish Jews survived the Holocaust in Poland by hiding or by joining the Polish or Soviet partisan units. Another 50,000–170,000 were repatriated from the Soviet Union and 20,000–40,000 from Germany and other countries."

Harry:
Another 50,000–170,000 were repatriated from the Soviet Union and 20,000–40,000 from Germany and other countries.
These people would not be entitled to any money since they were enforced upon Polish goverment which was not our sovereign decision.

Do you know what the word "repatriated" actually means? Are you a liar or a moron? Those 70,000 - 210,000 people were Polish citizens who had been deported from Poland (mainly by the Soviets) and then returned to Poland.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
17 Apr 2009 /  #36
Do you know what the word "repatriated" actually means? Are you a liar or a moron? Those 70,000 - 210,000 people were Polish citizens who had been deported from Poland (mainly by the Soviets) and then returned to Poland.

That is correct, they were Polish citizens from the Kresy, their property lied in Russia and currently is in Ukraine and Belarus, Poland owes them nothing.

The full quote is "Between 40,000 and 100,000 Polish Jews survived the Holocaust in Poland by hiding or by joining the Polish or Soviet partisan units.

And if their children have proper documents they should receive compensation, the problem is they DONT, they dont have proper papers, they dont have anything to prove they're owners.

My family owned a "Kamienica" a large house in Lwów as well as a village under it, but we dont have property papers so zip for us, same case with Jewish survivors.
pawian 178 | 16,086  
17 Apr 2009 /  #37
It seems Israeli kids are really spoilt. Someone should explain to them they damage the image of their own country.
But I think they also behave like that everywhere else, not only in Poland. It is worldwide problem. Youngsters today feel free to do what they want.

Are certain other nationalities which visit Krakow better-behaved? Not much. :):):)
PennBoy 76 | 2,436  
17 Apr 2009 /  #38
The educational project for high school students has been expanded to include opportunities of personal contact between Polish and Israeli youth.

Now why would they go and do something silly like this?, can't we just stay enemies :)
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
17 Apr 2009 /  #39
Harry

You desperately try to turn things around, distract from real issues and wherever inconvenient, you avoid answering the questions. It's not like anybody on this forum expects any better from you based on your performance so far. But it still amazes me how idiotic and vile your posts are and how you continue to hate both Poles and Jews, you polonophobe and anti-semite.
krysia 23 | 3,058  
17 Apr 2009 /  #40
Now why would they go and do something silly like this?, can't we just stay enemies :)

Revenue?
It's sad that Israelites come to Poland without any respect. They should be screaned before thay come and have only those who are interested allowed to come and Poland should make them responsible for the damages. They should be responsible for their actions and respect another country. If they hate Poland, why do they come.

Many blacks in America have the same mentality that they were slaves over 1000000 years ago so now America has to pay for this. geeez, stop living in the past!

Where were the Jews before they lived to Poland? Go after them!
PennBoy 76 | 2,436  
17 Apr 2009 /  #41
It's sad that Israelites come to Poland without any respect. They should be screaned before thay come and have only those who are interested allowed to come and Poland should make them responsible for the damages. They should be responsible for their actions and respect another country. If they hate Poland, why do they come.

Exactly Krysia, this sickens me, they try to blame German atrocities on them on Poles, in Poland there were only a handfull of instances where Poles murdered jews with Germans, look at what was happening in Belarus, Lithuania, latvia in those land 80% of the killers were local population (not Germans) killed Jews, yet no one blames them. Poland was the only country in Europe where hiding a jew was punishable by death, why? because they wanted to exterminate us after the jews were gone. Himler expected all Poles to be gone by 1975, actually by 1955 only 3 or 4 millon was to be left as slaves and the too gone by 1975, they were to be dumped into the Pripet Marshes in Belarus. The Jews are just blaming all this on us cause it happened on our soil, shows how smart they really are, i dont think any of them would have risked their lives to save a Pole. So they need to shut up.
Rafal_1981  
17 Apr 2009 /  #42
I don't want to be truculent or something, but you made two logical errors in your post.

First:

land of their grandfathers

It is a land of Poles.
So you can call it a land of your grandfathers if you consider yourself Polish (or/and have a Polish citizenship). However, if you are an Izraeli citizen - you are a guest on these lands.

Second:

and move back here

You mean: move in. Those young Israeli citizens you mentioned never lived in Poland before so they can't "move back" but they can to move in (and stay as a guests or apply for a citizenship after an essential period of time)

to be honest it doesn't mater what western press think if we play our cards on east.

True
wildrover 98 | 4,451  
17 Apr 2009 /  #43
I don,t have any evidence myself that Jewish people hate the Poles , but if i were Jewish and read this thread i think i would hate Polish people too...
miranda  
21 Apr 2009 /  #44
So you're defening the current thuggish behavior? (which is well-documented)

no, I don't but I try too look past it, since there is more to making the relationship healthier than that.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
23 Apr 2009 /  #45
Could be OK...Are Polish students being invited, in numbers, to Palestine?...Without being forced to go to 'Yad Vashem'?
HatefulBunch397 - | 658  
23 Apr 2009 /  #46
Palestine?...

Palestinians never lived in Poland.
MarcinD 4 | 135  
23 Apr 2009 /  #47
As someone who grew up in America I can say that there are a few reasons for this

A) REALLY bad/faulty history books and poor teaching in general in schools. There are countless instances in America's own history that are skewed and not til high school or even worse college, do you get the complete story of what happened.

In schools it is taught that Hitler wanted the extermination of Jews, which is correct but they fail to explain just how evil of a mind Hitler possessed. It didn't start or end with Jews, he was going to exterminate EVERYONE and anyone left would be used as slaves. Not permitted to speak there native tongue, re produce - basically the slow death of an entire race/culture.

By ONLY mentioning Jews they aren't being fair to the millions of Slavs, intellects, homosexuals, handicapped and so on that perished. They almost have you thinking that as long as you weren't Jewish you would be spared. Which is obviously complete ********.

Last I checked there was no such thing as a Jewishland or Israel in Europe, so obviously these Jews were part of a nation. So why is there no mention of the 6 million Poles that died in the Holocaust? That's the main question

Why isn't there more of a mention of the Jews being Poles or the fact that 6 Million Poles died in the Holocaust? By not pointing this out - people are then left to think that Poles were somehow involved with the Germans and that's why I think your seeing this ignorant view by Israeli and American youth. Basically the Western world

B) Your foolish if you think American-Jews/Israeli-Jews haven't specifically tried to keep Polish deaths in the Holocaust as a side note. The "were the only victims, look at us" has helped enable them the national state in Palestine. People feel so bad for Jews that they are willing to turn there cheek for anything Jews do these days. In example the Gaza conflict just 5 months ago. I have read and watched Israeli's speak out themselves comparing the Gaza to the Warsaw Ghetto during WW2. The world is more willing to let Israel perform the same actions Nazi Germany did because of the Holocaust.

C) In the Western World Polands involvement in the war is nothing more than being attacked by Germany, handing over there Jews, while also committing there own crimes against Jews and then permitting Germans to build concentration camps on there land while they sat around. It is so ridiculous that if you even attempt to enlighten the ignorant you'll have the hilarious "ANTI-SEMITIC" label thrown at you. Semitic describes a large ranging group including Palestinians, and many other Arabs. It's just yet another example of how Jews have even created there own personal term to describe negative things said about them. As if Anti-Jew isn't good enough.

Consider for a second who is the most famous Holocaust victim. No she's not a Pole, not a Russian, not even a German.....she's actually French. Anne Frank. Of all the people that would be the image of the suffering and death of the Holocaust, it's a French girl.

As a Pole myself, yes I feel we have been wronged by Jews when it comes to the Holocaust. Like stated earlier in this thread, were not talking about European Jews here, these are either American-Jews or Israeli born Jews. They have nothing but bitterness and a downright ignorant view of really happened. The Jews have and will continue to until everyone puts a stop to it - a never ending excuse and sense of entitlement with everything they do because of the Holocaust. Poland is a struggling nation that is STILL rebuilding from the war and to have people fly over here that have absolutely no connection to this land and try to claim and take something away from us is downright disgusting. The last thing I'm about to let happen is Poland turn into another Palestine. We'll give back the land right about the time America gives theres back to Mexico.
HatefulBunch397 - | 658  
23 Apr 2009 /  #48
Israeli-Jews

Aren't some of the Israeli Jews emigrants from Poland? You shouldn't blame all of this on Israel and the US. It's the Polish Jews (and other European Jews) who survived Auschwitz who are telling everyone what happened there.
MarcinD 4 | 135  
23 Apr 2009 /  #49
the film 'The Pianist' a great example of what was going on during that time. Jews were ratting out and selling each other out in the Warsaw Ghetto. So yeah I'm sure you can find some bad apples that did indeed harm jews or inform the Germans of there where abouts, but to focus on that is very irresponsible. I GUARANTEE you can find MANY MANY more examples of Poles not just helping Jews survive but also costing there own lives in the process.

This kind of behavior has sprung a whole new generation of ignorant people, and your seeing with this kind of behavior when they visit Poland.
HatefulBunch397 - | 658  
23 Apr 2009 /  #50
This kind of behavior has sprung a whole new generation of ignorant people, and your seeing with this kind of behavior when they visit Poland.

I think it's because most people living in the west can't grasp it. It's impossible to understand such a thing because most of us have never endured something like that. It's not so much ignorance, just inability to grasp. What's left is this anger. Many Jews who survived WWII had a negative experience prior to and during it, so, this has left them bitter and traumatized, as I'm sure Poles are too after going thru it. It seems both Poles and Jews are equally as traumatized and you can see it reflected in these posts on PF.

Younger Jews in Israel listen to these stories from survivors of Auschwitz and it pisses them off. It's understandable why it would because it's just so difficult for to comprehend unless you have lived through it. Back then, nearly everyone in the world had much less than we do now. To even begin to understand, we would need to start life with far less than we do.

I don't doubt some of the Jews, in an effort to survive, did things that put other Jews in danger, maybe without even realizing the consequences, like,with Jewish councils in the ghettos. They sent their fellow Jews to labor, maybe without realizing what would eventually happen, or maybe they thought they would be sentenced to death if they didn't? Same with the Poles.

You read about nobody stopping the trains by sabotaging them and how some think it was because no one wanted to. What remains unsaid is, if someone did stop the trains, there would have been hell to pay. Even if they tried and failed, the consequences would have been harsh. The Nazis, I'm sure, would have retaliated in an extreme way.

A rebellion occured in one of the camps, all perpetrators were killed. I'm sure if someone would have tried to stop the trains they would have been killed along with everyone riding. Who knows, maybe even more.

Many Poles did help Jews but so many Jews ended up in the camps it's hard for them to focus on those who risked their lives. So what they do when they visit your country is act out. It's no excuse, but that's why they do it. Another thing I'm sure, aggravates them, is the grafitti condemning Jews. It's in places in Poland. That probably pisses them off as well because it reminds them of the terrible past.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
23 Apr 2009 /  #51
Palestinians never lived in Poland.

Oh, I'm sorry, I meant those counterfeit 'Jews' who now run roughshod over the native peoples in the counterfeit nation they call 'Israel'...I call it Palestine because that's what it really is...Perhaps these young Isralis coming to Poland are just a 'backup plan' if they have to evacuate Palestine eventually...But, keeping this in mind, I support peaceful cultural exchange for educational purposes...Perhaps the 'Israelis' will be given lessons in Polish history and the greatness of our culture while in Poland...This would be a good counterbalance to the hate they learn in occupied Palestine.
HatefulBunch397 - | 658  
25 Apr 2009 /  #52
I call it Palestine because that's what it really is..

Wasn't it Israel before it was Palestine? Joe. You really should learn some history.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
25 Apr 2009 /  #53
Intelligent comments...And, you see, there is also never talk (especially in the schools, never) about the JEWISH Bolshevism that took the lives of how many millions of Russians, Ukranians and Poles, too.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,768  
25 Apr 2009 /  #54
the film 'The Pianist' a great example of what was going on during that time. Jews were ratting out and selling each other out in the Warsaw Ghetto.

not that i disagree with your post #47 (because i thought it was very insightful) but you really can't use depicted events in a hollywood movie as historical reference, can you?

And i'd just like to say that while i like the persona's of both Harry and z_dariusz I did enjoy the thorough dismantling by mr. z on page 1.
yehudi 1 | 433  
26 Apr 2009 /  #55
Hey, my daughter and her Israeli high school class just came back from a trip to Poland. Sorry, but they didn't trash any hotel rooms or attack any Polish old people. They did have a very emotional experience going to camps and seeing the few remains of Jewish communities that no longer exist.

They ran into some friendly Poles and also some drunk Poles who yelled at them. They saw occasional grafitti of a star of david hanging from a gallows (I've seen that too.) One impression of Poles I heard from my daughter is that the girls are pretty but expressionless, not as lively as Israeli girls. The boys, she said, were cute. She is afterall a teenager.

Before they go on these trips they have many seminars to prepare them for it and they usually travel with a survivor who gives them a personal point of view. They are not indoctrinated to hate Poles but they do get the impression that most Poles were not sympathetic to the Jews during the holocaust. They are certainly aware that it was the germans who committed the mass murder, along with help from Ukrainians, Lithuanians and Latvians. They are also aware that Poles were under occupation and were not allies of the germans. I even told my daughter some of the Polish attitudes on this issue that I've learned from this forum. She can form her own conclusions.

The issue of "regaining" property in poland is not discussed at all in their program. As Israelis they are fully aware that they have a homeland and they would not dream of leaving Israel to live in their granfather's villages in Poland. You don't have to worry about thousands of young israelis flooding poland, since these trips are never longer than 10 days.

The purpose of these tours is to give high school kids some historical perspective and help them identify with their ancestors who lived in a very different environment than they do. By the end of the trip they are very glad to go back home.
McCoy 27 | 1,269  
26 Apr 2009 /  #56
They saw occasional grafitti of a star of david hanging from a gallows (I've seen that too.)

Probably they were in Krakow. You have to know one thing, there is a great hatred between Wisla and Cracovia football fans. Cracovia from the begining was multiethnical club with many jewish players and supporters and thats why Wisla fans call them 'jews'. star of David on the gallows from the walls is not about hate toward jews its about hate toward Cracovia and its supporters. most of these graffiti makers have no idea about real jewish people and probably dont give a feck about them. and when in groups they are equaly dangerous for everyone including polish people. they are just a scum football hoolies. these are examples of cracovias fans answers:

white star is a wislas symbol. you can find them crossed out on the walls. cracovias answer for hanging davids star

'born under the right star'

as you can see cracovia fans accept their 'jewishness' and use it as a riposte. i hope now you understand a little bit more. cheers
Miru 1 | 24  
26 Apr 2009 /  #57
McCoy is right about that. Some of my family members are Cracovia fans and I've heard a lot of songs about Cracovia. One of the lyrics went something like this "Go ahead and call me a Jew - its not a shame for me". They also sometimes call themselves 'Chosen Nation'.

Oh, I almost forgot about 'Jude Gang' who actually do call themselves Jews... although they are hooligans so I suppose it's not something Poles should be proud of...
pawian 178 | 16,086  
26 Apr 2009 /  #58
Jews from Dąbie district are morons
I must say that the star hanging from the gallows is very rare in Krakow. There are gallows with other things, e.g, name of the club
Miru 1 | 24  
26 Apr 2009 /  #59
Wow... now I realise what it must look like to a foreigner. All Israeli tourists should be informed about the meaning behind this graffiti...
ela_lawyer 5 | 64  
26 Apr 2009 /  #60
Pawian, let's assume that approximately 300 Catholic Poles were responsible for painting the anti-Jewish graffiti you presented, presumably in Kraków. That doesn't mean a nation of 38 million people are held collectively responsible for the racist acts of a few skin heads. It doesn't justify labelling an entire nation as being anti-semitic. Individuals are responsible for such acts, not an entire nation of people.

Have you been to Israel yet? Thousand upon thousands of young Christian Slavic women have been kidnapped and forced to serve as prostitutes for the mostly Jewish inhabitants living there. That, of course, doesn't indicate that all Israeli Jews are anti-Christian.

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