Poland. Sold for nothing.

As compared to: "Sorry I know you have paid but you will still freeze because we can't get the gas because the middleman steals it/has a fight in with the deliverer/sits on it/is unable to care for the pipeline and now they leak/*insert any other reason*" ?

And that they are profit oriented private firms is no faith but a fact.


Yeah...how unexpected in such a long time project...nothing will ever change in all those years...how "newbie!"


That would make Germany a commie state where the gov makes ideological decisions.
Not to mention that Schröder and the government would have to OWN BASF or EON for that.
Boy, if that suits you...can't help you!

You're missing the point. BASF doesn't give a flying crap about the cost because the customer will pay whatever that cost is. That is where your affordability argument fails.


Actually, I always considered post WW2 Germany more of a a commie state than Poland ever was. I think it still is.


BBoy, don't tell me you still haven't figured out how business and government deals work. They go hand in hand. In the US it's called "lobby". In Germany, if I am not mistaken, former government officials with significant connections become "consultants", CEOs etc. Schröder is a prime example.

What point?
BASF works differently as all other energy companies in what way???


Well..you think thoroughly commie in believing the decision for the pipeline was an anti-polish commie government one and that Mrs. Merkel actually had a say in it because they somehow belong to the gov and that the state has the power to tell those firms what they have to do, THAT is commie thinking!

Lobbying is something else and yes, the energy sector has a big lobby and here is the evidence how wrong you are:

LOBBY: Energy firms want to make deal, want to make profit, want pipeline, lobby to get the necessary deals and treaties with the gov and everybody else they need...

COMMIE state: Orders energy firms around for political reasons if they want to or not!

Lobby: Yes
Commie state: No
Money: Yes
Politics: No

See...in easy bold words it's not to hard to understand....

...of course...you could now try to say that EON and BASF are commie companies who try secretly to isolate Poland and even try in invasion..with gazprom...later...

No. They work exactly like the other companies. It's a hit and run tactics, aka "good return value to stock holders". In that BASF is just like any other company. See automotive industry bailout in the US. First get handouts and then pay millions in bonuses to top execs.

There is no "long term" for many of them, especially if they are in their 70's.


That;s not what I had in mind. The very first time I went to (West) Germany I thought it was exactly what we were indoctrinated commie Poland was like, but it wasn't. Polish level of well-being and social services did not even come close to what Germans enjoyed.


So we agree. The Baltic pipeline is for energy firms, not for the general German population :)

Exactly!
No hidden, secret conspiracy...just plain old money...


Erm...no public property in a non-commie state ...but hopefully I will get my gas I paid for!

All this conspiracy talks gets really boring with the time...

All big countries have document like "military doctrine". If I remember right Russia current military doctrine assume preemptive nuclear strike... I would say it isn't very peaceful doctrine.

Of course nobody really thinks that they want to invade Poland but do they have plans? They have plans just in case for many, many not very pleasant things. For example I think they have document like "how to split Ukraine in half"...

I don't know what you remember but that's a piece of crap. Did you study it in Russia to say that or simply read on the fence?

Russia has the primary targets to be destroyed in case of nuclear aggresion. None of them are in Poland... yet. But I assure you, they will be on Poland territory either, as soon as you install there interceptors. Why? Because this is a direct threat to Russian defensive capacity.


This is close to what BB said. Paranoia kills.

In contrary to, lets say, Germany, whose politicians gave them two lost wars just in one century. :)

Here:
nti.org/db/nisprofs/russia/weapons/doctrine.htm

It is a little more complicated indeed. In simple words Russia allow for a possibility to use nuclear weapon in conventional war between Russian ally and somebody else...


Presidential campaign in 2004 and gas issues prove it isn't paranoia at all :-)
Add to that sentiment manifested by some Russian officials that "Ukraine is not a real country"... Personally I really regret that Russia has this postcolonial syndrom (and Poland too as a recent colony). Reality is that Russia-Poland affairs could be now best then ever because there is no border or colony-center issues between them. The only real issues are energy monopol and future status of Belarus and Ukraine. It is funny how history repeats itself. Ukraine and Belarus were for centuries bone of contention between Poland and Russia. Well, Poland finally comprehend that these are independent countries. It is time for Russia to do the same.

I agree, but what do you have to show for it? Schröder? Merkel?

Sasha, this is quite good too:

da.mod.uk/colleges/arag/document-listings/russian/OB77/view

"The section concerning Russia's use of nuclear weapons has already been commented on, but it would appear that the earlier choice of words - which caused the alarm bells to ring in the West and also raised a few eyebrows in Russia itself - was deliberate in its vagueness and should be seen less as being constructed on Russia's own lack of clarity and more on its deliberate policy of keeping "the enemy" in the dark, so to speak, concerning the precise conditions of use of its nuclear arsenal."

OMG, I love internet, there is everything in it now :-). You know Sasha, you should search more before you start using words like "piece of crap"...

Are you a fool or just pretend to be,BB? Didn't German delegates report on who shut-off the gas to Europe or they are as always licking Russian a**?

And why didn't you defend more diversification of the energy sources? Nostalgy? ;)

You guy need to get off that Russian gas c*ck. Until you do you'll be at their mercy.

Good point, Randal. Germans as always try to divide the world with Russians. Did it once. Let's not be fools and let them do it again.

Just as we need to get off the Arab oil c*ck.

We should diversify c*cks :)

You really are a quite bizzare little man.

Norway produced no steel between 1932 and 1939. So it would have been rather difficult for the British navy to stop the shipments.

It would have been rather tricky for them to have stopped the shipments of Russian oil too, seeing that the British navy operates on the sea and most of the Russian oil went overland on the railways.

Yes I suppose that the British navy could have stopped the flow of American parts by sinking US ships. But perhaps you might like to put the blame for American parts reaching Nazi German on the USA which sold the parts and not on the British for failing to stop the shipments?

Yes, c*ck diversifying would be good. Essential, even.

“In the year 2008 Russia cut off energy to Europe.” This statement is insane in its true commentary.
It’s a crazy world when we are dependent on our enemies for our wellbeing. Sure, similar paradoxes have been going on for eons, but you’d think everyone would have learned their lesson by now.

If your "enemy" is essential for your "wellbeing" isn't it crazy to call him "enemy" in the first place?

THAT is crazy and irrational, so polish!

And yes c*ck diversifying is essential, german firms do alot to support that, being shareholder and supporter of several new pipeline projects...whereas Poland does...what?


Germany tries exactly that...be it Nord Stream, South Stream, Nabucco etc.
Last year showed that Ukraine can't be trusted with the delivery, even unable to care for the pipelines, we have to repair them for ourselves...thank you!


Merkel is in another league...yes she is a smart politician!

Well, maybe “enemy” is too strong a word –for now. But certainly no one questions how dangerous it is for anyone to remain dependent on Russia for anything essential. Particularly after their little stunt last year. That should have served as a great big wakeup call to the side of Europe’s collective head. Just as it is crazy that we depend on Arabs, many of whom don’t really like us.

Everyone soon better wake up to the fact that as these fossil energy resources start becoming depleted, things will be getting nasty.

Germany knows that and we are in a better position than many others, environmental energy being an ever growing part of our technology researches/inventions.

Germany is leading in many renewable energy fields...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Germany


But till it becomes widely usable we prepare for the upcoming nasty energy wars with...for example...building new "veins"...instead of only complaining, protesting and screaming!

Poland better wake up soon! Germany is already wide awake...

german-renewable-energy.com/Renewables/Navigation/Englisch/root.html


worldwatch.org/node/5430


What about Poland?

Well, Ford is going to produce the electric THINK car, the only problem is it will cost $100,000. However, on one charge it will run over 115 miles. Hey it's a start. No carbon footprint. No Arabs or Chavez raising prices every time they sneeze.

Ugh, that nut Chavez… The US should just go into Venezuela and claim their oil for our own. I think this is what that fat little antagonist fears and this is why he’s been spending so much time making friends with Iran and Russia.

Yeah...how stupid of him...being paranoid of an invading army...of a big, mighty neighbour...how could he!


What exactly happened last year Randal?
Maybe you get different news than I do?

As far as I know it wasn't solely Russias fault...

guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jan/07/ukraine-russia-gas-dispute


And now knowing that poor Ukraine isn't even able to care for the pipelines and the EU has to pay for it I totally believe Russia here...Ukraine couldn't/did not want to pay.

And when you don't pay for a product it's somehow logical to me at least that you lose every right to that product...only Poles seem to see that differently...I wonder why?

So...who is to blame here Randal?
Which "stunt" did the Russins make?

Six consecutive years economic growth in Venezuela while Bush screwed the national deficit. Yeah, what a chump...LOL

If you did something like that you would ruin our fairly good relationship with Brazil and South America in general.

I beg your pardon, it is only 13,000,000,000,000 dollars or so.

How can any thinking person even say such stupid sh*t after seeing Obama's reckless deficit spending?
Oh, it was Szkotja. That explains it. Lol...

We are already recycling your cars, isn't that enough? ;-)

Well...it's a start! ;)