NEW PATRIOT MISSILES FOR POLAND

Thats an incredibly stupid thing to say for a smart guy like you, do you know what decent Putin was doing for a living before he entered politics?

All intel blunders at some point... win some lose some its llfe :-)

NO western intelligence agencies had ever taken the threat of radical Islam terror on their own doorstep seriously enough until after Madrid, 9/11, 7/7.

Intel blunders on 9/11... all that can be said is these guys turned out to be more of a threat than the intelligence agencies believed them to be at the time. That so much information was gathered on these guys is testament to the intellegence agencies good work in watching these guys, but maybe the risk assesment was not so good... hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I know Putin's history, yes, but I don't see any invasion. I don't encourage paranoia. We all have histories, some darker than others. This is the present.

And you claim he's decent? The man is a cold blooded murderer responsible for death of Berliners, independent Journalists and a number of other fun things, yet you claim he's decent Neville Chamberlain!


Even though Russia made some significant statements about their minority in Ukraine AND invaded Georgia over what was much less of a reason they have for invading Ukraine?


I dont encourage complacent stupidity which is what you present right now, you're at this point playing Neville Chamberlain, lets not get crazy, lets sit down and talk, i'm sure Adolf Hitler is a decent man.


Exactly, and seeing as Russia did not change at all and made moves towards re-establishing itself as a power (despite its pathetic economic and military standing) the natural conclusion is that if Ukraine strives for independence (or as you called it becomes a puppet of the West, captain appeasement) they will invade, especially since Ukraine unlike Poland does not have a military capable of putting up a fight.

I'm sure you have taken the timeframe in mind with this? Remember that at the "Peace In Our Time" statement, it wasn't at all clear what Hitler had in mind. Only 18 months later this became clear. And the atrocities were not to be known until even longer after that. In hindsight it's always easy to condemn and say what shouldn't have been done, but you would be filthy rich if you knew everything upfront. Heck, even the Jews themselves didn't believe in 1942 that they were going to be exterminated in Concentration Camps. Why? Because it had never happened before and it was so grotesque that nobody actually could imagine it was pssbl at all.

>^..^<

M-G (hindsight is easy)

He kills doughnuts? ;) ;)

Georgia was the aggressor. What part of that don't you understand?

You are living in the past. Snap out of it.

Why can't you let them work it out? Believe you me, it is being worked out. Why does Poland have to get involved?

Seanus, the whole Georgian war has some similarities with the Yugoslav Civil War: parts of Georgia want to become independed, Georgia enters with a big army and tries to shut it down. Unfortunately for Georgia, they have a kinda big neighbour who's not really friendly and is in support of the seperatists' parts. There you go, trouble :) If the EU had been more decisive in the Yugoslav Civil War, then it wouldn't have come to such a mess. But the EU showed its indecisiveness pretty obviously during that war.

Russians always annoy me a bit with their "solutions" - it's nearly always a violent one. The school in (was it Ingusetia?), that theatre in Moskau...Always so much violence and always it's the innocent that get slaughtered. Bah!

>^..^<

M-G (thinks Russia should get a kick in its butt - that'll teach her!)

There were pretty good indications, just like there are with current Russia, yet there are always naive fools like Seanus, if anything Europe should learn from Poland in regards to Russia but we still get bloody ignorants coming here like Sean on a high horse and preaching to us about paranoia, thats not paranoia thats wisdom learned the hard way.


Did Georgia invade Russia? If Edynburgh wants to secede from Scotland does that give England right to invade Scots to defend Edynburg?


What past? Politkovskaya was killed three years ago, Petr whathisname got a bullet a year ago, Chechen women are still being raped to breed out the locals.


Occupy parts of Georgia to make the pipeline from Azerbejdzan unfeasable or let Russia invade Ukraine in the name of taking back the Crimea.


I'm sorry Sean because i really like you but there's no other way to put it, you like most of politically interested people in or from the West are clueless fools who dont know a broken penny about Russian culture, Russian civilisation or their mindset.

We could write books on the subject here in Poland being directly affected, warring with them or occupying, being occupied, or just living next to them but since you like most of the west is hopelessly naive and deluded you just wont listen.

Its the fault of people like that we had the iron courtain and that Hitler happened and thats exactly why Poland needs to get involved, just like in 1920 when you twittled your thumbs and we were saving the collective European asses under Warsaw, we have to get involved because you and people like you( most(of the West) are on the bottom of shytless clueless pit as far as Russia is concerned.

Sorry, when the Polish spirit is defined by animosity towards Russia, how can I expect to have a rational debate? I've read Ascherson and other leading authors and the fights Piłsudski had with the Ruskies.

Your problem is that you live in the past. Are you gonna live your whole life as a paranoid guy?

They restored order. Did you see anything like on the scale of the Balkans screwup by the EU or the invasion of Iraq and occupation? Russia took care of business and got out after a bit of time.

Sinister elements will always be at work, Sok. Relax!

Why should Russia let America have pipeline potential everywhere? Read up on Brightest Corp and Carl Schwarz.

I know as much as I need to, Sok. They can be shady and not to be trusted but don't be too alarmed.

I would say the West doesn't want too see much further than their ass


you somehow fail to notice two Chechnya wars and the genocide on the Chechen nation


I would say Polish spirit is rather defined by the animosity to the Russian imperialism which is very different in my opinion

Wow, we are getting blamed for Hitler now, LOL. Not his mum's fault? Not the hysterical view of Jews he had?

Tell me sth about Russia I don't already know. You can't.

Well, Russian imperialism then.

They fit exactly in the list of examples I gave. No list of examples is exhausting, you know that.


Isn't that how it normally goes? Everybody is always to blame except themselves?


Lol, Russian Imperialism: Afghanistan, Siberia and I seem to remember they even had a trading post in Africa (I think it was in Togo) for 10 odd years.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Exactly, it wouldn't have anything to do with Poland being prime pickings for being carved up by 2 nutjobs.

I really like Russian language. (I actually love hearing it) I love their music. (traditional, classical) Most Russian people before revolution were simple, peaceful, religious people who lived along nature. And it was pretty natural and easy for many Poles to live among them while for example being sent to the Siberian exile. It is not the Russian nation that is an active threat to the well being of their neighbours. Or the peace in general. It is their elites.



don't know what to say - do you think Central Asia republics don't feel a pressure (of various kinds) from their former sovereign? do you think Belarus is somehow free from Russian pressure? Aren't they trying to interfere in internal politics in Moldova, Ukraine, Azerbaijan? Do you think they have dissolved their spy/agents networks in the former communist countries and in the West, was KGB ever dissolved? or was the name just changed?

and russian imperialism it is!
On 13 October Reuters reported that Russia had publicly reserved to itself “the right to undertake a pre-emptive strike if it feels its security is endangered....” This was recently announced by a senior Kremlin official. Meanwhile, the United States is publicly renouncing its right to undertake a preemptive nuclear strike in turn. If the United States sees someone else preparing a strike, no preemptive action will be taken. Washington is resolved to accept the strike, and heaven knows whether we have the will to retaliate.

also the United States has tentatively agreed to unprecedented Russian access to American nuclear missile sites and Russian weapons inspectors will be given an open door to American nuclear sites in order to monitor the number of missiles and warheads????

what is wrong with America? how could this happened? or perhaps it is some complicated
political trick?
in 1984 KGB defector Anatoliy Golitsyn he wrote:KGB agents are well equipped, in pursuing their policy, to engage in maneuvers and stratagems beyond the imagination of Marx or the practical reach of Lenin and unthinkable to Stalin. Among such previously unthinkable stratagems are the introduction of false liberalization in Eastern Europe….”(copy and paste)

false liberalization in Eastern Europe???? they have being busy , very busy in achieving it.
in the time of peace, prepare yourself for war!! wise words for Poland and Russian neighboring nations.
NEW PATRIOT MISSILES in poland is a right step, in fact any advance technologies would be welcome to have.
russian have left some installations in Chernobyl 2(next to chernobyl city)
google still shows it! if only radiation would allow it explor???

What's wrong with the US? Nothing really, we'll probably work with the Russians on the Muslim terrorist threats. Thus.. giving them access is a concession and a way to build tentative trust. Who cares if they peak around?

hmm not sure about that because I just read this article here a few hours ago.. I think NATO covered that last year so the US stance on it as a singular country is perhaps meaningless.

NATO Considers "First Strike" Nuclear Option

projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/21-nato-considers-first-strike-nuclear-option/

I get this feeling that America and Russia will partner more in the future.

it would be interesting to see polish stand? on the wagon? or under the wagon?

states with the most sophisticated strategic culture could emerge on top!

could that be USA,china and Russia?
in this scenario Poland should get together with Ukraine, Romania, hungry, Serbia just to start up!
with strong and modern army, we might have the chance????

Don't forget our friends from US and elsewhere:


Allied intervention in the Russian Civil War

I do...

This is a show of weakness of epic proportions.


I get the feeling the US & China will partner more in the future.

China are right now aiming to topple the US finances- bye bye

Not without cutting off their nose to spite their face.

As the biggest purchaser of US government debt China is bankrolling the US, therefore the world economy, right now. A double-edged sword if there ever was one.

You know America was founded on Europeans. Secondly, why are you blaming the Poles and other countries? Fine I'll stay in this century, it was the Germans with their fanatic Nazism and the Russians with their Stalinist regime that did most of the killing. I really don't see how the Poles aren't "refined" enough to be peaceful like Americans. It's not their fault they were stuck between two manic countries. Do I go around saying that American's are barbarians because they ram planes full of innocent people into buildings since there were Islamic terrorists immigrated within the United States?

Poland bore the brunt of 2 psychos. It would have been interesting to conjecture how it would have been without those 2 wackos. Would Himmler have pursued such a maniacal ideology with such fervour and zeal? Would another Georgian/Russian have risen up? Who knows!?

Europe has been building itself up since the death of Stalin really. His death in 1953 saw the formation of the ECSC and then, 4 years later, the EEC. Germany made a mess in the Balkans but America had a large hand in that too. Lord Carrington as the British representative urged caution but his words went unheeded. It was those NATO hawks from Germany and America that precipitated and expedited the war in Yugoslavia.

Poland has every right to pursue arms but I don't think it's the right maneuver at this time.

Can I get some proof of that? Or is this yet another conspiracy-theory?

Thanks.

ECSC: instigated in 1950, signed in 1951 by the six and in 1957 turned into the EEC. I suggest you read up on your EU history, Seanus.

>^..^<

M-G (yeah!)

...wait for Seanies links to youtube! ;)

170.000~ soldiers? In Russia? Thats a joke.


Thank God you're not our politician, Sean the sheer level of your political stupidity is mind boggling, apart from calling Putin who's a former KGB agent responsible for multiple murders and executions decent you tell us not to arm ourselves in peace time? So when?

When your decent Russia decides that Poland looked at it the wrong way and Russia needs to restore peace in Warsaw (like you claim it did in Georgia) and dont go telling me that NATO or UE are protection enough or that Russia wouldnt do it because its mad, history shows Russia did madder things and it was rulled by the very same people its ruled by today, same mindset, same goals.

Thank God we are arming ourselves and people responsible for purchases are not clueless hippies like you.

Aren't you now just being paranoid? What reason would Russia have to start trouble with Poland? List and links, pls (in English, German, French or Dutch). Thanks.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)