NEW PATRIOT MISSILES FOR POLAND

No i'm drawing logical conclusions.


Lets see, Poland opposes exploitation of Ukraine, Poland is a destabilizing factor for Russian regional dominance (since that dominance historically includes Poland sooner than later).


Suck my keyboard you annoying twat, you're welcome :)

The British had 40,000 troops in Russia; the Polish had only 12,000 which was one thousand less that the US had during the same campaign, who fielded 13,000.

I guess its a numerical joke only a Pole would understand :-))

But then again we had 750.000 defeating a milion Russians under Warsaw :)

US and China won't exactly "partner". More like China will own the US and take all the money.

Sorry, that's a blunder from an EU major. 1951, I got confused. I've done speeches on it in my Hons and LLM years so my apologies, just a slip.

Crow has covered this enough. I could quite literally go on and on about their meddling in the Balkans but this has been covered elsewhere. PM me if you really wanna know.

Sokrates, gotcha! I thought Poland had enough to defeat Russia alone without any further weaponry. Were you lying? LOL That's what you were saying. Stop underestimating Russia, they'd make short work of Poland.

No Sean my point is that Poland can (probably) defend itself but only a total incompetent would rely on that, with Russia its important to look for a carrot we have in common with them and at the same time have the sharpest stick possible in case they dont like it.


No what i'm saying is that if Russia would be to invade shall we say tonight we could probably pull a 1920 on them (provided they dont nuke us) thats not the same as being on par in potential though.


I'm not.


Really? Lets do some math, globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/mo-budget.htm

Russian military spending in 2007 - 50 bilion USD.
Polish military spending in 2009 - 10.5 bilion USD (and we actually cut it).

We have 1/5 of Russias military funds and 103.000 personnel.

At the same time Russia has over a milion personnel which means that their funding unit for unit would be only 50% of their Polish counterpart.

I'm saying would be because at the same time Russia has a gigantic over 20 times larger fleet, a nuclear arsenal, an air fleet thats 6 times larger then ours, we can only guesstimate but the Russian units are unlikely to receive more then 20% of funding of their Polish counterparts and thats not 1920 Sean, without training, maintenance and logistics it doesnt matter if you have a milion strong army.

Could Russia win against Poland? Yeah if it devoted 100% of its usable forces and was prepared to have its military wrecked then it might but thats arguable, whats not arguable is they have greater potential in every field and its that long term advantage that we need to have allies for.

So Russia would have to be at 100% to beat Poland, is that what you are saying?

No i'm saying that Russia would have to use 100% of its usable conventional forces right now to have a go at Poland, thats not the same as their nominal forces, if numbers could fight they'd eat us alive.

And you feel that patriot missiles would make a meaningful difference?

No of course not, if it was me at Kaczyńskis place i'd sit down with Americans, try to wrestle a good pile of money for it, failing that i'd pull out of the deal but having America pull out the way they did is emboldening Russia and Russia when its on the roll cant stop, even if it would want to and thats what i'm afraid of, Russia on the roll.

First Eastern Ukraine, then Belarus when Lukaszenko gets uppity and then suddenly they feel the urge to protect their minorities in the Baltics and NATO gets involved, and what country is the nearest major NATO power? Yeah ...

There's enough scenarios where the West feeds Russia into a war no one wants and given the people at the helm of the Kremlin, all of them likely, and you call it Polish paranoia.

If that is Polish paranoia then I can go along with it. The West has the potential to spark sth but I think those days are behind us as long as Obama is in power. McCain would have been an unmitigated disaster. He'd've been in Iran and winding Putin up.

Thats the underlying principle behind most of our policies, the only problem is that we have people like PiS and Kaczynscy to enact them, there's logic behind it but they sure dont sell it that way.


Neither Obama nor MacCain are running the US.


Why would US strain their economy further when they have Israel to do that?

How do you feel Tusk is handling Putin? True, the cabal is at work ;) ;)

Israel, LOL. That was a good comment! Letting the Palestinians be trodden on is just wrong and Obama isn't helping. Sending Mitchell across is getting nothing done. Either do sth or get out, simple!

Just like everything else, not at all, i have no illusion about our current political elites, left or right.


US never cared about Palestinians, in my opinion all the meetings and comments are there only as a publict front, they fed the place to the Jews long ago.

What should be Tusk doing, accepting missiles to befuddle Putin?

These meetings have to stop. They are a complete waste of fuel ;) ;) Sorry, thinking Scottish here, thinking green too. It's a horrible thing to say but these people conducting negotiations are wastes of space and need a shot in the head. They are NOT striving for peace and they are a slap in the face to Palestinians. Feck off and stay out.

What is GB doing about it? How we like to criticize from our smelly EU living room.

He should have pulled out of the deal when it started smelling tuna instead of waiting for US to do it.

Result? Tusk does not get any flak for pulling out but our country does lose a LOT because of the way US did it, once again that **** put his political career over our country.


Well ... Amen.

Ohh you're thinking Scottish. Which means you are thinking like an English lap dog? A.ss sniffer to the crown? Chief British Mine Finder?

GB is staying out of it in cowardly fashion! We didn't vote on the Goldstone Report but at least we weren't against it like you bought toads.

Scrappy, you know jack about Scotland so don't even pretend. The SAS was Scottish and we'd take the Navy Seals or DELTA Force to the cleaners.

I know it's low culture and not even a real country. Please the British tell you where to p.iss. Disgusting servitude. Does Limey tell us where to p.ss, the Aussies? Feck no.


Ahhh.. but Obama "should do something about it." lol

Low culture? Sledz wouldn't agree with you, neither would Wahldo. Scotland, if I can try and be objective, has one of the richest cultures in the world for such a small country.

Obama has been talking about a 2-state solution for a long time but how does he propose to do that when:

1) Netanyahu's hardliners will increase settlements, not freeze their construction

2) Hamas will never realise the state of Israel

Both of the above are preconditions for peace discussions

Come on, genius, whip out that crystal ball and show me the impossible. How?

*yawn* and where's the EU, sire? The Jews have you paid for too. Hell, they own a lot of your premier soccer teams.

You won't see me denying that. The EU is every bit as bad. Still, it has been Mitchell going there to jerk off Netanyahu and lap up their hospitality. Either redistribute the West Bank, as even Israelis go along with, or get out and stop making noises. This goes for any diplomat that goes there.

Please describe how you see this scenario of yours becoming reality.

oh, that could be the start of another thread entirely :D

How about a tease?


Scrappy, the EU was here on negotiating Iran's uranium enrichment. Where was our shrewd negotiating genius, you know, the guy occupying the White House?

powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/10/024745.php

Obama is just there to make the right noises at the right time. Iran is for the riling and I have a hunch that the US was behind the recent Jundullah (Sunni radical terrorists) killings of the Iranian National Guard. There will be reprisals according to Ahmedinejad. It is this sparking of conflict that needs to stop.