Polish-German Relations in the Present

True.
Its hard to say something really objective about that topic, cuz everybody has got different experiences. Sure, we can say something about political lines, but i think that this topic needs more personal feelings and opinion.

I met Germans, when they came to my school cuz of language exchange. Some just ingenious person's idea was to take then to Oświęcim (camp). I didnt expect anyway how they will react. Laugh, jokes, complete indifference for tragedy, which happened there. They even start to take photos there with big ****** smiles on their german faces. Really weird.

On october im gonna visit Germany. I hope that family, with which ill live is different. I cant say about all Germans that they are bad, only cuz of one experience.

Whats about u guys? I wish to hear some stories ^^

Yes I agree with alot of that....I lived in Germany for 12 years, and was based not far from the Bergen Belsen Camp.... Anyway we went on a trip there one weekend and they had a school party of German children visiting at the same time, maybe 12-14 year olds......and you couldn't help but notice the complete lack of any interest or compassion on there behalf!!.....They were more interested in what we were doing than anything else!....They just looked bored with the whole experience, but on the other hand on a day to day basis....the Germans were the same as anyone else!

I have to agree....visits to such a camp is at least once compulsory to a german school class and I remember mine...and we were bored too (and to onlookers surely rude too).

But it wasn't because of lack of compassion or hate of jews or such...kids that age get bored easily...they make fun of museums visits too...

It's no bad intention...but these visits are compulsory....a duty...and as such they are seen by the teachers and the kids...

I think it's a wrong way to handle that because it accomplishes nothing (with most kids anyway) but still....it's an ordered duty so every year another class goes visiting ...*shrug*

I don't think the Polish-German relations are dead. How could they be dead? We're such close neighbours. The relations have actually just started - really started, that is, because what was before was just something totally fake and dishonest. Personally, I am optimistic about the future of the relations. Our politicians can communicate with each other very well. And no amount of hate from the media psychopaths, who try to set our nations against one another, seems really able to change it.

PS. And yes, the Polish-German relations could be much worse if types of Cohn-Bendit's ilk started ruling Germany. Cohn-Bendit - a Marxist hooligan in the 1960s in France, isn't German, by the way.

Also, yes, Poles and Germans aren't nations who have, ahem, lots of amicability towards each other. But this can be improved in time, I think.

I think that the Germans should govern Europe along with the British and French.

By the way, when as a kid in communist Poland I was visiting Auschwitz along with my schoolmates, I was bored too. And depressed. Some of the kids, in order to cheer up, joked stupidly, as kids do in all places where they shouldn't, e.g. churches.

On the other hand, such visits have an important purpose and value, of course. Lots remains in one from them.

I didnt say but those Germans were in age 18 -19, so i think its not right to be so unripe and trivial.

Just a question:

Did you ask those Germans if they wanted to go to the camp?
Were they at least a tiny bit interested?
Or was it more like: "They are Germans so we show them the camp! They HAVE to be interested!"
Did you expect a feeling like after pushing a "emotions-button"???

Well they should show some interest!

so you didn't get blown up with your computer after all

From the looks of things probably this statement is true. A little bit awkward way to great guests.... but still, a well mannered person would not react the way they did, no?

I agree

Why???

And if they show it just to please you would it make you feel better???

*can still be blown off...the danger is not over yet* :)


It is rather awkward and I wouldn't be surprised if the behaviour of the Germans was a rude answer to this awkward behaviour of the hosts....

No,

But I think young people should be taught the important points in history, especially things in living memory, in such a way they cannot be ignored.

When I was about 14, I had a teacher at school who brought in some old home movies, she warned us that some of the content was not nice and not to tell other teachers she had shown it to us. the film was from the early war years, it was made by some German people who were against Hitler. One piece of film showed a man protesting against the Nazis, it then showed him being dragged into an empty building and being shot, it certainly left a mark on me.

I think for young people to say they are just not interested, is an insult to the memory of all the people who died.

There were no more alive Jews in the camp,why Germans should be interested?

Maybe German children are different, for many years WWII was not on the history curriculum but it is now, when I visited Auschwitz in February there were English children on field study trips and they were nothing but respectful and I saw a few with tears in their eyes...so I have to dissagree with the above so strongly..compassion is not an age thing, rather a personal thing.


You are quite correct, niether were their any living Polish or Hungarian or Gypsis or any other of those that Hitler exterminated, the point to these trips is to show people and to make them remember, in the hope that it will never happen again.

Same as the Killing Fields in Cambodia, atrocities in the 19 / 20th century have been too many.

Do you know that german children visit graves of Wehrmacht soldiers in Poland with a growing interest?

No, and to be honest I really dont care, they weren't that good since they were defeated and also they were a disgrace to the armed forces, they executed POWs and to me they were just cowards!

Wehrmacht units killed thousands of Polish civilians during the 1939 September campaign through executions and terror bombing of cities. After the end of hostilities, during the Wehrmacht's administration of Poland, which went on until October 25, 1939, 531 towns and villages were burned, and the Wehrmacht carried out 714 mass executions and a number of other crimes. Altogether, it is estimated that 16,376 Polish civilians had perished. Approximately 60% of these crimes were committed by the Wehrmacht.[1]

Atrocities during the Battle of France

Between May 25 and May 28 1940, the German Wehrmacht committed several war crimes in and near the small village of Vinkt. Hostages were taken and used as human shields. As the Belgian army continued to resist, farms were searched (and looted) for more hostages who were later executed. In all 86 civilians were executed, but the total death toll was probably 140. The reason for the carnage is unclear

Oh yeah thats something to be proud of !

re: Hungarian

- I've never heard about Hungarians dying in German concentration camps. Hungary was on the German side in WWII. Hungarians took part , among others, in the cruel suppression of the Warsaw Rising in 1944. Also, Slovaks, Bulgarians, Rumanians, Croats, Ukrainians, all were on the German side during WWII. Only Poles, Czechs and Serbs fought on the Allied side.

Actually, the neo-Nazi movement is particularly strong in Hungary.

Hungarian jews were (forced to be) deported, so yes Hungarians died in camps.

I thought, Amathyst, that you meant non-Jews when you mentioned Poles, Hungarians and Gypsies.

Lots of non-Jews died in German camps too.

But I've never heard about Hungarian gentiles dying in those camps.

By the way, other countries also had labour camps. The Russian ones were far worse than the German ones; there's actually no comparison between them. E.g. German camps had hospitals, doctors, etc.

Don't forget that Germany was waging war, so people in labour camps, deemed as, and often being, sworn enemies of the Third Reich, could not be treated gently.

I'm not going easy on war criminals; I am saying all this for the sake of historical truth.

By the way, as far as I know, no Russian commie criminals have been brought to justice so far. Only the German ones, even if their guilt is hard to prove and they are folks in their eighties. This is outrageous indeed.

1. As i said all that trip was my teachers idea. Weird thing for me, take polish and germans teenagers to camp... Anyway sure i didnt ask cuz we just had to go there.

2. Yup, they were interested in looking for toilet.
3. Seriously, all what i expect was respect and even if somebodys bored, he doesnt have to start to laugh etc. We arent children anymore. In that age everyone can stay calm for couple minutes.

Daisy is right. Besides they should understand that for Poles it could be hard visit. For me for example it was. They saw our tears or definetly not happy faces and? and NOTHING

I agree with that, respect costs nothing.

Just looking at it from another viewpoint, i wonder if the laughter was because they felt awkward. Laughter can sometimes be a mask to hide behind.

respect has to be earnt... it doesnt come for free...


sweetheart... you are very much still a child... your posts make this obvious...


could have been... but then again... naaaahhh... dont fink so....

agreed, but someone should have taught them how to show some


never one to give anyone the benefit of the doubt..

I doubt that all the died people will feel insulted...I read a BBC poll (in the wake of the 60. anniversary of the liberation) that showed that nearly a half of the Brits didn't know about Auschwitz at all!

Lot's of people are not interested...no need to feel insulted!

hnn.us/articles/1732.html

Here you will find even more evidence that history and the knowledge about important events shouldn't be token as granted...


Now....how weak would then have been the allies???
They needed full fecking 6 years and their combined powers to wear down little Germany! :)
(Oh and all of them executed POW's if it did fit them)
And I don't think that fighting continously outmanned against enemies who had so much more men and material counts in objective eyes as "cowardly"....but that's another topic!


They should have told them before then....how to react "properly"...

Oh sorry Mr B, did Germany not have any help?? or are we going to re-write history here :)

Respect should be shown to the dead, regardless of sides. To me it is humane response to someone's loss.

And also some German POWs returned to England after the war - hmmmm must have been a real traumer for them over here being help in those awful camps :)


Im unsure who they polled Mr B because even though we were not tought about the war in school we were all very much aware of what the Germans and the Italians did.

That's nice of you shopgirl but highly idealistic....like in not realistic!

In GB for many is Bomber-Harris still a hero...and his policy killed hundreds of thousands of german civilians...or even the forced expelling of the millions of Germans who had to flee the eastern territories (2 Millions died on this treck of misery)...did you ever hear a "I'm sorry" from the Poles???

PS: Did you know that more german refugees starved to death, froze, got murdered (2 Mill) than Jews died at Auschwitz (1,6 Mill)?
WHERE ARE YOUR TEARS???

face the truth you lot lost the war, deal with it :) its time to move on....

We are going to scourge the Third Reich from end to end. We are bombing Germany city by city and ever more terribly in order to make it impossible for her to go in with the war. That is our object, and we shall pursue it relentlessly.

— Arthur "Bomber" Harris, RAF.

let love live

You started that argument! :(