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Euro Elections 4th June - Who will you vote for ?


ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
1 Jun 2009 /  #61
If you put equality sign between the EU and Europe many honest Europeans might be offended. Please be more sensitive...

Who cares, we are constantly told that we are not European on this island but something different.

i understand there are pros and cons

Only cons as far as I'm concerned, we could have signed a trade treaty and done just fine without joining!
lesser 4 | 1,311  
1 Jun 2009 /  #62
I'm not sure what you mean with that last bit.

I meant that the EU and Europe this is not the same. I risk a thesis that average European is a lot more honest person than those corrupt parasites based in Brussels. Thus many Europeans would not wish those bureaucrats to be considered as some kind of 'essence of Europe'. They basically claim so, however there is no need to use this false rhetoric.
Torq  
1 Jun 2009 /  #63
with or without your vote neither UPR or PR 'qualify'

Possibly. However, PR got 4,11% of the votes in the pre-election
in Września (UPR managed to get 2,94%) so they're not that far
away from the 5% treshold.

As for UPR's official views on abortion, it's not very clear to me
as I've heard them describing children as parents' PROPERTY
and they tend to lean towards libertarianism which might make
one wonder if they support or oppose abortion (Murray N. Rothbard
himself advocated abortion-on-demand in his book "The Ethics of
Liberty).
lesser 4 | 1,311  
1 Jun 2009 /  #64
Possibly. However, PR got 4,11% of the votes in the pre-election
in Września (UPR managed to get 2,94%) so they're not that far
away from the 5% treshold.

Wrzesnia doesn't count at all, nearly every poll is more reliable. Both will gather about 1%.

As for UPR's official views on abortion, it's not very clear to me
as I've heard them describing children as parents' PROPERTY
and they tend to lean towards libertarianism which might make
one wonder if they support or oppose abortion (Murray N. Rothbard
himself advocated abortion-on-demand in his book "The Ethics of
Liberty).

Property but specific property. They say so because states these days is quick to take children from their parents because some BS reasons. Also to promote home-schooling in opposition to state monopoly for education.

UPR always states that life begin from conception and opposed abortion. Of course they share many ideas of Rothbard, however there are significant differences. This is not only about abortion. Rothbard was an anarchocapitalist and opposed the concept of state in opposition to UPR.
bullfrog 6 | 602  
2 Jun 2009 /  #65
Dear Lesser

You seem surprised that anyone would bother (and succeed!) to check the facts and sources rather than believe them at face value.. Seems a little strange to me but probably only natural for someone who is ready to believe at face value anything that is aired by polskie radio (remember that its brother, polish public TV is headed by a LPR politician, is that what you call mainstream?).

I am currently travelling and outside of Poland but will be back in the country this week end.. I will then post the soundtrack of the interview (and await eagerly your apology which will no doubt follow!) and answer your two questions.. I am sure that after this "free" education lesser will become greater! And btw, no, it's neither polish, nor german, nor russian for me.. Keep guessing!!
lesser 4 | 1,311  
2 Jun 2009 /  #66
remember that its brother, polish public TV is headed by a LPR politician, is that what you call mainstream?

Three notes:

1. We discuss about public radio or public TV? You know, whole this concept of guilt by association is not really funny.
2. What is really funny that according to you TV run by propagandists from PiS, PO or SLD can be considered mainstream while in case of LPR things change.

3. You still fail to provide evidence.

and await eagerly your apology which will no doubt follow!

This is your duty to back your claim by evidence. Why should I trust you? You seems to be very dishonest poster.

And btw, no, it's neither polish, nor german, nor russian for me.. Keep guessing!!

Another ericstic trick? I'm no interested in your language preferences. On other hand I would like to know your answer on following questions:

1. Does the EU should respect results of Dutch and French referendums?
2. How many times the Irish should be forced to vote?

You should simply write that you are not a democrat and oppose referendums in general. I would really appreciate honest answer unlike meddling.
OP Mister H 11 | 761  
4 Jun 2009 /  #67
I've been to vote and I voted UKIP.

Have you voted yet ?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
4 Jun 2009 /  #68
I don't like voting for a hotchpotch package. Parties take a stand on so many issues, some policies I agree with and some I don't. Anyway, parties often deviate from their manifestos so it's all a game at the end of the day.
OP Mister H 11 | 761  
4 Jun 2009 /  #69
I agree with you, but I'm so fed up with the mainstream parties that I just had to vote for someone else and UKIP seem the only vaguely sane alternative.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
4 Jun 2009 /  #70
Tactical voting is common for sure. It is a very progressive process for a party to build up their credentials but somebody has to start the ball rolling for them.

I don't know too much about the party you voted for.
PolskaDoll 28 | 2,104  
4 Jun 2009 /  #71
This is the first time ever I haven't felt like voting. We vote today in the UK and when I looked at the parties and the candidates I nearly turned around again. I voted though.

When is voting day in Poland?
Bartolome 2 | 1,085  
4 Jun 2009 /  #72
When is voting day in Poland?

7th June.
PolskaDoll 28 | 2,104  
4 Jun 2009 /  #73
Thanks for that Bart. :)
Ambroz1 - | 1  
4 Jun 2009 /  #74
I won't be voting for this bloke for the English Democrats who jokes about shooting Polish people.

beardedsocialist.blogspot.com/2009/06/english-democrats-party.html

I might join his Facebook page!

facebook.com/pages/Steve-Uncles-English-Democrats/34445722644
time means 5 | 1,309  
4 Jun 2009 /  #75
I'd vote for the SNP were I in Scotland.

Yeah but your not so you can`t. Long live the UK, seanus connery!
Ziemowit 14 | 4,381  
5 Jun 2009 /  #76
I am quite amazed to see that on a forum re Poland where many of the participants are either non Poles living in Poland or Polish people living outside of Poland, most of the votes seem to be going to anti European parties ...

The UPR, LPR and Prawica Rzeczypospolitej are the so-called "setee parties" (partia kanapowa). The brilliant and most eloquent leader of UPR, Janusz Korwin-Mikke, has been unable to seduce voters with his talk full of charm for several years. (When replaced with Mr. Michalkiewicz, the party turned out to be a little aniti-semite, as far as I can remember). The LPR has slided into some political emptiness when it turned out that they were secretely fond of the Nazi ideology. At present, they try to hide themselves behind Libertas, which is promoted in Poland by the chief of public TV, member of LPR, a certain Piotr Farfał, whom the press portrays as a former nationalist and sometimes a hooligan towards young ladies who wore too colourful clothes. (He no doubt doesn't like Jews or Blacks either.) Marek Jurek and his PR are too few to fulfill one, even not too long, settee in full. I don't think any of these so-called "political parties" may get out of the shadow they are in.

[I'm a Pole living in Poland, have been in the UK three times altogether: once for a half-a- year stay, twice as a tourist.]
lesser 4 | 1,311  
5 Jun 2009 /  #77
The UPR, LPR and Prawica Rzeczypospolitej are the so-called "setee parties" (partia kanapowa).

I don't think any of these so-called "political parties"

As far as UPR is concentrated, perhaps you are right and this is more a discussion club than a party. At least being a member of UPR is not a reason to be ashamed unlike to even sympathize with political parties of the mainstream.

When replaced with Mr. Michalkiewicz, the party turned out to be a little aniti-semite, as far as I can remember

I don't remember anything like that. Michalkiewicz was labelled anti-Semite because he spoke openly against Holocaust Industry (defined by Finkelstein), some kind of worldwide Jewish organizations that demand cash and claim to represent all the Jews elsewhere. While in fact UPR was the only political party in Poland that demanded re-privatization or compensation for individual victims. Tell me please why Jewish victims still cannot get back their property or be compensated? Apparently Polish political mainstream that failed to solve something so obvious by so many years is in fact anti-Semitic what was proved by their actions!

Anyway Michalkiewicz was a president of UPR between 1997-1999, so your political knowledge is a bit outdated...
OP Mister H 11 | 761  
6 Jun 2009 /  #78
Tactical voting is common for sure. It is a very progressive process for a party to build up their credentials but somebody has to start the ball rolling for them.

I don't know too much about the party you voted for.

The UK Independence Party ukip.org are, as far as I can tell, against mass immigration and not in favour of everything EU, without being a bunch of racists.

I don't know a great deal about them either, other than what the leaflets shoved through the door told me, but I felt that they reasonable choice for a protest vote that wasn't going to be totally wasted.

Who did you vote for ? Was it an easy choice to make ?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
6 Jun 2009 /  #79
I am in Poland and have no voting rights. Proxy votes are saved for boardrooms.
OP Mister H 11 | 761  
6 Jun 2009 /  #80
Yes I know you're in Poland, but it's a European election and surely you had voting rights for the area in Poland you live in ?

EU citizens vote in the UK for Euro elections for the constituency that they live in.....don't they ?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
6 Jun 2009 /  #81
It was all hush hush. Never have I encountered such a lack of publicity in where to go and how to register a vote. It was all TV hype and propaganda. I'm not really interested in all the hoo haa of politics. It makes me sick how people earn off of what they do.

So you see, I want some distance from the whole process.
Bartolome 2 | 1,085  
6 Jun 2009 /  #82
I am in Poland and have no voting rights.

Check this out[
pkw.gov.pl/gallery/15/91/44/159144/6.THE_ACT_of_23_JANUARY_2004_ON_ELECTIONS_TO_THE_EUROPEAN_PARLIAMENT.pdf

...unless you're 'WANTED' you can vote :)
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
6 Jun 2009 /  #83
Shhhh, you've blown my cover :)
sledz 23 | 2,250  
6 Jun 2009 /  #84
You guys need to get yourself an Obama...
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
6 Jun 2009 /  #85
I'll vote for that, sledz :)
gumishu 12 | 6,082  
6 Jun 2009 /  #86
I'll vote for Marek Jurek's Prawica Rzeczypospolitej - the only
true Catholic-conservative party in Poland.

it is a vote lost Torq - your vote will go mostly for PO consider this

sometimes you need to choose a lesser evil to stop the major evil
Torq  
6 Jun 2009 /  #87
it is a vote lost Torq - your vote will go mostly for PO consider this

In Września PR got over 4% of all votes so things don't look that bad.
Besides, they got a lot of support lately from catholic clergy and media.

I don't think that my vote will be a lost one, even if PR doesn't make
it to Europarliament - it will be a vote for the civilization of life and for
Christian values.

sometimes you need to choose a lesser evil to stop the major evil

I know what you mean, Gumishu. Believe me, I despise PO and all that they
represent but I have to vote as my conscience tells me, so it's Marek Jurek
and his PR for me.
gumishu 12 | 6,082  
6 Jun 2009 /  #88
Torq - why does not PR form an alliance with PiS??

methinks because of Marek Jurek's personal ambitions read the ego

if they formed an election block more of those lost votes will count for the righteous side
lesser 4 | 1,311  
6 Jun 2009 /  #89
sometimes you need to choose a lesser evil to stop the major evil

Please write why do you think that PiS is lesser evil than PO?

In Września PR got over 4% of all votes so things don't look that bad.

Two years ago three party alliance gained 4,75% in Wrzesnia. It transferred to 1,3% in the end and PR was definitely the weakest party in this trio.

they got a lot of support lately from catholic clergy and media.

Look at amount of media coverage for Liberatas. I'm curious whether they will be at least ahead of PR and UPR. This system doesn't give a chance to any new parties. Even if people would widely approve platform of minor party they think like gumishu what completely kill theoretical concept of democracy. (of course election threshold was not set incidentally by mainstream political establishment)
gumishu 12 | 6,082  
6 Jun 2009 /  #90
lesser - PO are a bunch who are there wholeheartedly for money except the very top of them - they are there to corrupt power - as seen in many examples - they have quite unpleasant forces behind them - namely former secret service branches - the last thing PO cares for is the well-being of the nation - there are so many hints to think like I do - you just need to look for it and not judge by some apperances - I don't believe you are an admirer of Mr Palikot - a corrupt hypocritic figure that bears a banner for PO - do any righteous people take such a figure for their representative??

and there is place for everybody who really cares for Poland is honest and not completely blinded by some ideaology in Prawo i Sprawiedliwość - there is a place for UPR they just didn't really care to form an alliance but many former UPR members are now in PiS - and I don't believe they have cast away their ideals - there is a place for Marek Jurek supporters - didn't he leave PiS on his own mind? - there is a place for LPR members and supporters in PiS - it is mostly mr Giertychs leadership ambitions that they didn't join PiS

and those who you don't want to see to run the country will love to see all those divided

united on some essential issues and not trying to differ just for the purpose of having a leadership of a political movement (there is a thing called responsibility too) the patriotic block can beat anyone on Polish political scene

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