Return PolishForums LIVE
  PolishForums Archive :
Archives - 2005-2009 / News  % width 110

Euro Elections 4th June - Who will you vote for ?


Torq  
6 Jun 2009 /  #91
methinks because of Marek Jurek's personal ambitions read the ego

You're wrong. Marek Jurek left PiS because they were too eager to give up
the fight for the lives of unborn children and didn't support him in his fight
against abortion. For current, particular, political interest they gave it up.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
6 Jun 2009 /  #92
they are there to corrupt power - as seen in many examples

What examples?.
gumishu 12 | 6,082  
6 Jun 2009 /  #93
plenty Sean if you just closely follow the news - Mr Palikot is one clear example - only those who don't want to see do not

You're wrong. Marek Jurek left PiS because they were too eager to give up the fight for the lives of unborn children

Torq - they did not have to start a new political movement - noone in PiS would have thrown them out - they could have manifested their views without leaving - their voice wouldn't have been any less powerful then - and I have reasons to think Marek Jurek is not a responsible politician - his fraction voted populistically just before the 2007 election just to get to the headlines
Torq  
6 Jun 2009 /  #94
I have reasons to think Marek Jurek is not a responsible politician

You are fully entitled to your opinion about any politician.

I consider Marek Jurek to be the most noble and honourable of all Polish politicians
and ever since I read his book "Reakcja jest objawem życia" I also consider him
to be a wise, honest and righteous man.
gumishu 12 | 6,082  
6 Jun 2009 /  #95
I don't agree with that 'wise' - he can have strong views ok he can be personally righteous and still politically irresponsible focusing on too narrow a field

and I think there is quite wise compromise on anti-abortion laws in Poland at the moment - and raising the issue politcally can lead actually to liberalizing the laws which I think you would see as quite a shame
Torq  
6 Jun 2009 /  #96
politically irresponsible focusing on too narrow a field

You can consider it too narrow, but for us Catholic-conservatives
what you call "narrow" is the most important cause we fight for.

can lead actually to liberalizing the laws

Not gonna happen. It's still Poland and we'll never allow that.
gumishu 12 | 6,082  
6 Jun 2009 /  #97
Torq it is about democracy - and raising the issues antagonises many - polarises political spectre - you just create more enemies in the populace - you perhaps don't see outside your own environment but there are plenty already antagonised against the catholic church and they can be quite easily manipulated into voting for more liberal abortion laws if it is the main agenda - the problem of polish anti-abortion laws is not in the marginal things like conception due to rape, or pregnancy being dangerous to life and health of a woman -

if the majority vote in Poland would be for liberal abortion laws would you fight for it shedding blood of those who oppose your views??? - I don't think it is wise to raise the issue politically now when there are very reasonable laws in place at the moment
Torq  
6 Jun 2009 /  #98
Well, I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, Gumishu.

As for your question - I never mentioned shedding blood, where did you get
that idea? I just want to vote for a politician who, according to my best
knowledge, would be the best representative of Catholic-conservative voters.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
6 Jun 2009 /  #99
lesser - PO are a bunch who are there wholeheartedly for money except the very top of them - they are there to corrupt power - as seen in many examples

The same about PiS.

they have quite unpleasant forces behind them - namely former secret service branches

Kaczynski use this rhetoric all the time and unfortunately still many people cannot see anything else. Most of old secret services is either death or retired. While business in socialist states always want to be in close relationship with politicians because state have much too say. PiS concentrate all their effort on historic policy and socialist demagogy.

- I don't believe you are an admirer of Mr Palikot

I'm not his admired indeed, also I find difficult to find one respect deserving MP in PiS. All conservatives already left this party. What is the name of this communist judge from PiS who was responsible for sentencing few members of opposition?

and there is place for everybody who really cares for Poland

Yeah, there is place for all of them in PO as well and SLD too. Conditions are the same, nearly complete rejection of their political ideals and moral values.

What examples?.

PO is not worth a broken cent, this is true. All those mainstream parties building bureaucratic leviathan because they will gain something from it. Many of those PO politicians have its share in dirty privatizations from the past. (MEP Lewandowski in particular) Of course I'm in favour of privatization but not in their 'style'. I mean shady deals, doubtful prices and complete lack of transparency.

and I think there is quite wise compromise on anti-abortion laws in Poland at the moment

I agree with Torq, there is no space for any compromises in fundamental cases like human life. Anyway, why to babble about compromise when we all know very well that the left never respected it?
gumishu 12 | 6,082  
6 Jun 2009 /  #100
you can have such a politician in a bigger block of righteous people - for me it was sheer irresponsibility for Marek Jurek to leave PiS - I presume some personal ambitions or mislead mission are in question - Marek Jurek haven't achieved anything starting a new political movement - there were similar movement before btw like ZChN - look where one of the leaders of ZChN is now -

and he won't achieve anything in the future Torq - there won't be any more strict anti-abortion law in Poland in any foreseable future - what he managed to achieve is splitting and weakening the block of righteous and those who care

look for that which we share not what divides us

Kaczynski use this rhetoric all the time and unfortunately still many people cannot see anything else.

I can see much more than this

- I can also see many mistakes made by PiS and Kaczynskis themselves - I can see many flaws in PiS - but I can see no real alternative to it at the moment - I can see Kaczynskis being sometimes dishonest, trying to play PR games (especially the president pretending somebody who he is not - being true to oneself is much better in the end) - but others are either idealogically blinded, egoisticly motivated or just mislead (focused on some issues that are not the most important ones)

and maybe I am stupidly naive but I truely believe Kaczynskis are really those who care for the nation - it doesn't make anything they do pure - the goal does not justify the means -

if you name some figures from Kaczynskis entourage that served communist system before - Mr Kryże (the jugde you mentioned) remained loyal to Kaczynskis as does Mr Wassermann or Mr Jasiński - to my mind if they are loyal to Kaczynskis they are loyal to their cause as well - at least this is what I think is quite obvious in case of Mr Zbigniew Wassermann -

btw Mr Kryże did not do that much harm and he could have changed his views don't you think - why are there so many lawyers, jugdes who opposed the Prawo i Sprawiedliwość and why Mr Kryże did not go with the flow, didn't side with those who sided with their own egoistic interests

there was so much injustice in Polish courts during the 20 last years one can easily think the whole system was largely corrupt - and there was no verification of say judges in postcommunist Poland - those who would sentence anti-communist opposition would not lose their jobs - why did not Mr Kryże follow suit and joined those who served themselves
Salomon 2 | 436  
7 Jun 2009 /  #101
As to politicans, here is Czech Prime Minister on party with Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi ... in his residence

berlusconi

policians
szkotja2007 27 | 1,498  
8 Jun 2009 /  #102
Scottish results wont be out until tomorrow ( no counting votes on the Sabbath in the west )but its looking good for the SNP - Strong

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8088358.stm
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
8 Jun 2009 /  #103
Amazingly enough the BNP have just taken a seat in the European parliament...Was gained in Yorkshire and Humberside. I have to say Im pretty shocked!
jojospacemunky 1 | 59  
8 Jun 2009 /  #104
ShelleyS

10% share +2 up .. just listening watching it on live feed on BBC
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
8 Jun 2009 /  #105
I've had it on all night on BBC...I reckon they'll get a high percentage in Manchester (no I didnt vote for them, UKIP here)
jojospacemunky 1 | 59  
8 Jun 2009 /  #106
It is going to be interesting the rest of the results coming in thats for sure ... i didnt vote for anyone but im interested to know whats going off (ive been following more on facebook)
Salomon 2 | 436  
8 Jun 2009 /  #107
Europe goes right.
OP Mister H 11 | 761  
8 Jun 2009 /  #108
Amazingly enough the BNP have just taken a seat in the European parliament...Was gained in Yorkshire and Humberside. I have to say Im pretty shocked!

It's a horrible thought for sure, but I'm sort of shocked but not surprised.

I saw Nick Griffin on Sky News earlier saying how he can tell potential BNP members "just by looking". It says it all really.

There were plenty of non-racist, anti-european candidates to choose from, so it's very sad that the BNP have had success.

I've had it on all night on BBC...I reckon they'll get a high percentage in Manchester (no I didnt vote for them, UKIP here)

UKIP here too.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
12 Jun 2009 /  #109
Europe goes right.

Rather wrong...

I am currently travelling and outside of Poland but will be back in the country this week end..

Soon we will have two weeks. EU apologists never keep their word...
Crow 160 | 10,983  
12 Jun 2009 /  #110
what Hildabeast has with Euro elections? well, use your imagination

Archives - 2005-2009 / News / Euro Elections 4th June - Who will you vote for ?Archived