I havent seen any prejudice here
You haven't seen a Yeti..
Doesn't mean it isnt there.. )
English vs. Polish hostility
You haven't seen a Yeti..
Doesn't mean it isnt there.. )
You haven't seen a Yeti..
How do you know he's never seen a Yeti? ;)
Doesn't mean it isnt there..
There's predjudice everywhere, but for puzzler to say it's in the US thousandfold as opposed to England is just ridiculous......it's the UK that complains about Polish people coming over and taking jobs.....it's only natural that Britain, which received the largest influx of migrants in the EU, would exhibit more hostility....in fact, until I came to this forum, I had no idea people were so predjudiced against Poles!
Now had he said the US is much more predjudiced against Mexicans than England, then I would have agreed.....I see predjudice against Mexicans quite frequently, but that stands to reason due to geography.
where do you get your info?
- From living in both countries.
- From living in both countries.
Hmmm, did it ever cross your mind that maybe it's YOU people have a problem with and not a whole race of people?
read some of your own posts. But it's still not guaranteed you'll see. Some folks have eyes but just don't see.
Very true......think about it!
"Britain is ruled by corrupt Freemasons & Jews who direct the destruction of the UK economy"
Ahh, Poles were brought to Britain to destroy the economy.
I'm not an economist so maybe the effects of this policy are too subtle for me to see.
Ahh, Poles were brought to Britain to destroy the economy.
I'm not an economist so maybe the effects of this policy are too subtle for me to see.
re: How do you know he's never seen a Yeti? ;)
- Do you believe you see things such as Yeti, Ranj? :)
re: There's predjudice everywhere
- It follows it's also in the US.
re: but for puzzler to say it's in the US thousandfold as opposed to England is just ridiculous......
- Specifically why? Do you always find statements of fact very funny, or just on occasion, Ranj? Would it have to do with your possible seeing things such as a Yeti?...
re: it's the UK that complains about Polish people coming over and taking jobs.....
- Do you mean the British government makes such complaints, or Brits as a nation? Please, explain what you actually understand by this sweeping generalisation.
re: it's only natural that Britain, which received the largest influx of migrants in the EU, would exhibit more hostility....
- So Britain has exhibited more hostility after all? Once again what, who do you mean by 'Britain'?
re: in fact, until I came to this forum, I had no idea people were so predjudiced against Poles!
- So? To paraphrase Firestorm, does it mean the prejudice doesn't exist?
re: Now had he said the US is much more predjudiced against Mexicans than England, then I would have agreed.....
- The Mexicans and other Latinos have incomparably more rights, respect and prominence in US than the Poles.
re: I see predjudice against Mexicans quite frequently, but that stands to reason due to geography.
- Do you mean prejudice against Mexicans is justified by the science of geography? How? ;)
re: Hmmm, did it ever cross your mind that maybe it's YOU people have a problem with and not a whole race of people?
- And what specific problem would I have? Please explain. Aren't you engaging in something many Americans engage frequently, i.e. blaming the victim? And is it I who make sweeping negative generalisations about whole groups of people, or you?
re: Very true......think about it!
- Why should I think about it? Shouldn't rather, say, those high on crack attempt to do that (if still able to)?
:)
- Do you believe you see things such as Yeti, Ranj? :)
re: There's predjudice everywhere
- It follows it's also in the US.
re: but for puzzler to say it's in the US thousandfold as opposed to England is just ridiculous......
- Specifically why? Do you always find statements of fact very funny, or just on occasion, Ranj? Would it have to do with your possible seeing things such as a Yeti?...
re: it's the UK that complains about Polish people coming over and taking jobs.....
- Do you mean the British government makes such complaints, or Brits as a nation? Please, explain what you actually understand by this sweeping generalisation.
re: it's only natural that Britain, which received the largest influx of migrants in the EU, would exhibit more hostility....
- So Britain has exhibited more hostility after all? Once again what, who do you mean by 'Britain'?
re: in fact, until I came to this forum, I had no idea people were so predjudiced against Poles!
- So? To paraphrase Firestorm, does it mean the prejudice doesn't exist?
re: Now had he said the US is much more predjudiced against Mexicans than England, then I would have agreed.....
- The Mexicans and other Latinos have incomparably more rights, respect and prominence in US than the Poles.
re: I see predjudice against Mexicans quite frequently, but that stands to reason due to geography.
- Do you mean prejudice against Mexicans is justified by the science of geography? How? ;)
re: Hmmm, did it ever cross your mind that maybe it's YOU people have a problem with and not a whole race of people?
- And what specific problem would I have? Please explain. Aren't you engaging in something many Americans engage frequently, i.e. blaming the victim? And is it I who make sweeping negative generalisations about whole groups of people, or you?
re: Very true......think about it!
- Why should I think about it? Shouldn't rather, say, those high on crack attempt to do that (if still able to)?
:)
re: How do you know he's never seen a Yeti? ;)
- Do you believe you see things such as Yeti, Ranj? :)
- Do you believe you see things such as Yeti, Ranj? :)
No, but apparently Firestorm believes in them....he's the one that said just because you can't see it, does not mean it's not there....:)
re: There's predjudice everywhere
- It follows it's also in the US.
- It follows it's also in the US.
The US I think falls under the category of "everywhere"
Specifically why?
Are you actually serious when you say this?
re: it's the UK that complains about Polish people coming over and taking jobs.....
- Do you mean the British government makes such complaints, or Brits as a nation?
- Do you mean the British government makes such complaints, or Brits as a nation?
Well let's have a look on this forum.....I believe the people who complain most about Poles are those from Scotland, Ireland and most definitely England....
Once again what, who do you mean by 'Britain'?
Oh excuse me, England!
until I came to this forum, I had no idea people were so predjudiced against Poles!
- So? To paraphrase Firestorm, does it mean the prejudice doesn't exist?
- So? To paraphrase Firestorm, does it mean the prejudice doesn't exist?
Where in the statement that I made do I say that predjudice does not exist?
The Mexicans and other Latinos have incomparably more rights, respect and prominence in US than the Poles.
As you always say Puzzly, "PROVE IT" :)
Do you mean prejudice against Mexicans is justified by the science of geography? How? ;)
It's not justified ever in my opinion, but the US has more Mexicans coming here because of the location, just as the UK has more Polish people coming there since their initiation into the EU, as opposed to coming to US.
i.e. blaming the victim?
You said it yourself, you are a "victim". Why is that? Don't know if you realize it or not, but we are responsible for our own happiness in life......you can choose to play the victim and complain, or you can do sth with your life and make yourself happy.....:)
And is it I who make sweeping negative generalisations about whole groups of people, or you?
Hmmmm, I would say it's you:)
Why should I think about it? Shouldn't rather, say, those high on crack attempt to do that (if still able to)?
Exactly! Like I said, think about it;)
False..
The visible minorities haven't been harassed (to the same degree anyway) in the UK for some time now..
In Poland...? Well.... lets leave that for the moment..
The visible minorities haven't been harassed (to the same degree anyway) in the UK for some time now..
In Poland...? Well.... lets leave that for the moment..
ooh this is fun.. think I'll get some popcorn and sit back and enjoy the show..
However, aren't wages (outside of a union environment of course) driven by "market values" as they should be in a free world?
1. We dont have a free market.. (Or a free world for that matter)
2. No they shouldnt
3. Think before you post
Merci!
Can someone explain why all the hostility that the English seem to have about the Polish people?
Some dont like Poles due to xenophobia, racism, tribalism
Others dont like the Poles due to the (perceived) economic fallout
Yet others have issues with Poles as they find that despite being immigrants themselves some seem to try and impose Polish norms wrt to Race and Racial hierarchy on their new Host Country.
ooh this is fun.. think I'll get some popcorn and sit back and enjoy the show..
You do that.. :)
I disagree there is hostility towards Polish, Somali, pakistani, muslims in general, but not Polish.
Probably not in London or SE.. (and maybe in some of the larger cities)..
It's a fact that there's prejudice against Poles - parhaps the result of competitive attitude (mentioned by Isthatu)? - among some non-English residents in the UK, including Thirld World people (Asians, incl. Arabs, Africans). Some of the bad cases of the prejudice, as known to me, involve a Latvian woman, a Slovak woman, and a Bangladeshi man.
About half of the Black people in the UK "come" from the West Indies.. Are they from the "3rd world"?
Are Africans/Asians/Arabs etc etc born in the UK from the "3rd World"
Scots, Welsh and Irish are in the UK and NOT English. Can they not handle the competition.. ? (p.s. The last two PMs were both born in Scotland and the current one is Scottish FCS...)
Do not make the mistake of attributing their idiocy to their race, just as I will by not attributing yours to your "race".
Generally, Poles get along very well with the English people. As you rightly remark, Poles and Brits have much in common.
The Poles and the Brits have a shared mindset wrt to Humour and Irony. But on the whole they have less in common with the Brits and most ex-colonial/commonwealth countries.
You'll see that prejudice against Poles is thousandfold worse in US than in England.
This is completely false. Polish people are very well accepted in the U.S.
OK a tester here, Im from the UK and know absolutly no "Polak jokes" ,how many from the USA can say the same?
(and surely 80% of the caribean outside the resortwalls is 3rd world,no disrespect just economic fact innit?)
(and surely 80% of the caribean outside the resortwalls is 3rd world,no disrespect just economic fact innit?)
Im from the UK and know absolutly no "Polak jokes" ,how many from the USA can say the same
I can, I can (waves hands wildly)! The jokes I normally hear are blonde jokes, and I still couldn't tell you any, as I am one who is not good at remembering jokes.......but as for hearing "Pollak Jokes", I can honestly say I have not heard any since I was a child, and that's been many moons ago;) I can tell you that most of the ethnic/racial jokes I have ever heard are interchangeable.....one group is always substituted for another.....it's not just Poles.....
lol ranj, Im half scottish half irish,living in england with an english acent,I hear paddy and jock jokes all the time. Maybe my sources are a little old,books from the 90s and just generel banter from US sit coms etc ,mind you Polish plumbers have become a punch line to many a joke here in the UK but normally at the expense of brits in that self depricating british style of humour.
I dont know if the comedy show "Goodness Gracious Me" ever got to the states,maybe pbs?, but the "Going for an English" sketch is cracking, a bunch of Indian mates going out to an "English" resturant in India and ordering the blandest food and mangling english names like james :):)
I can tell you that most of the ethnic/racial jokes I have ever heard are interchangeable
I dont know if the comedy show "Goodness Gracious Me" ever got to the states,maybe pbs?, but the "Going for an English" sketch is cracking, a bunch of Indian mates going out to an "English" resturant in India and ordering the blandest food and mangling english names like james :):)
This is completely false. Polish people are very well accepted in the U.S.
Not according to puzzler because he lived here and seen it all
He must have a vast knowledge of the US or a big chip on his shoulder
the comedy show "Goodness Gracious Me"
Will have to look it up.....I love a good comedy and humour!
He must have a vast knowledge of the US or a big chip on his shoulder:)
My guess is it's the latter! :)
Hes just looking for another argument
He thrives on it!
But, who can say what the Puzz experienced for himself here? I witness many ignorant people in NJ that have comments about someone being PL if sth is done backwards, but I also hear similar things (depending on scenario) about other minorities, so I really can't say from my experiences that "polonophobia" is running wild around here. Depending on when he was here, he could've very well experienced some sort of issue.
Nowadays, the tension seems to be more focused in the UK due to the influx of PL and dwindling jobs. I can see it there rather than in the US because we don't have a problem with the PL working. They've proven to be skilled, hard workers.
Nowadays, the tension seems to be more focused in the UK due to the influx of PL and dwindling jobs. I can see it there rather than in the US because we don't have a problem with the PL working. They've proven to be skilled, hard workers.
not to defend the attitudes at all but the morans who judge a nation/race whatever,over here in the uk probably wouldnt be able to distinguish a Pole from a dutchman....the problem is an attitude to "eastern europeans" rather than just Poles. Now of course that sucks but im just trying to illustrate the mental abilities of the types of people with a "problem".... I dont think they,the morans, would know the first thing about Poles or Poland to have a problem with,they would tend to be the type of insular nimby's(not in my back yard) that would have a problem with people from a different county or district of the UK moving to "their"area...
Nowadays, the tension seems to be more focused in the UK due to the influx of PL and dwindling jobs. I can see it there rather than in the US because we don't have a problem with the PL working. They've proven to be skilled, hard workers.
My argument exactly, Z. Puzz said it's a thousandfold worse in the US than in the UK....I said that most likely it was his issue and the people he had come across that had sth against HIM and not an entire race......
not to defend the attitudes at all but the morans who judge a nation/race whatever,over here in the uk probably wouldnt be able to distinguish a Pole from a dutchman
The same could be said for Americans with the same attitude.
It is an issue in the UK, but from my sheltered little corner of the country, it is not a very big issue.
There are Polish workers over here. "So what?" is what I hear most people say.
It is more of an issue in towns with large numbers of immigrants (Poles included) and with larger groups of settled communities recently descended from immigrants. There the problem is more one of ghettoisation and the unwillingness of people of all backgrounds to form a cohesive community.
There are Polish workers over here. "So what?" is what I hear most people say.
It is more of an issue in towns with large numbers of immigrants (Poles included) and with larger groups of settled communities recently descended from immigrants. There the problem is more one of ghettoisation and the unwillingness of people of all backgrounds to form a cohesive community.
"Britain is ruled by corrupt Freemasons & Jews who direct the destruction of the UK economy"
Ahh, Poles were brought to Britain to destroy the economy.
I'm not an economist so maybe the effects of this policy are too subtle for me to see.
Ahh, Poles were brought to Britain to destroy the economy.
I'm not an economist so maybe the effects of this policy are too subtle for me to see.
What f---ing Planet are you living on sunshine???
Freemasons? Jews?
I thought it was the Rotary club and Zoroastrians.
I thought it was the Rotary club and Zoroastrians.
Ranj, you wrote: 'The US I think falls under the category of "everywhere"' - Does it follow you admit there's prejudice towards Poles in the US?
Yes, I'm actually serious when I'm asking why you regard as 'ridiculous' my statement that Polonophobia in the US is thousandfold worse than in UK. So are you able to answer this?
re: Where in the statement that I made do I say that predjudice does not exist?
- Where do I say you said that 'prejudice does not exist'? Aren't you twisting my statement? - In my statement I used the expression 'the prejudice,' meaning the prejudice against Poles in the US. I didn't mention prejudice in the vague general sense that you seem to mean. So does the prejudice against Poles exist in the US, or not, Ranj?
re: "PROVE IT" [that Latinos have incomparably more rights, respect and prominence in US than the Poles - P.]
- Oh boy. For example, they are incomparably more numerous and prominent in American politics than Poles. American voters seem to be more willing to choose a Latino as their representative than a Pole. They and their countries of origin are represented incomparably more postively in the American media than Poles and Poland. Their history, culture and surnames aren't ridiculed, e.g. in 'ethnic' slurs. In numerous instances they, not the Poles, get certain (good) jobs. The attitude of an average American is thus far more respectful and positive towards a Latino than a Pole. I've had hundreds of experiences in this respect, in both US and Canada.
re: the US has more Mexicans coming here because of the location, just as the UK has more Polish people coming there
- That's the kind of 'thinking' that is typical of many Americans in regard to the issue. I've met (nasty) examples of it also on the internet, e.g. on the discussion site of The Scotsman, where participants from America compare - hatefully - Poles coming to work in UK to Mexicans sneaking into the US. Here you come - that's the category some (quite numerous) Americans classify us to. (I don't mean any disrespect to Mexicans here; I'm just talking about the American negative attitude towards them and us.) Did it ever occur to you and some of your compatriots, Ranj, that Poles coming to work in UK differ from Mexicans coming to US in that they don't sneak, but come legally...?
re: You said it yourself, you are a "victim".
- What is the 'it' I allegedly said myself? So am I a victim? Why?
re: Don't know if you realize it or not, but we are responsible for our own happiness in life......you can choose to play the victim and complain, or you can do sth with your life and make yourself happy.....:)
- And that's also the kind of delusional, divorced from political-economic reality, self-complacent, arrogant (and mortally boring) 'thinking' often encountered in America and Canada. - And it appears to me, Ranj, that by preaching to me condescendingly, as above, for a delusional reason, you're making a great fool of yourself. :)
re: I said that most likely it was his issue and the people he had come across that had sth against HIM and not an entire race......
- Well, perhaps you've got some sound evidence enabling you to babble as above. Do you? If so, what's the evidence, Ranj?
:)
Yes, I'm actually serious when I'm asking why you regard as 'ridiculous' my statement that Polonophobia in the US is thousandfold worse than in UK. So are you able to answer this?
re: Where in the statement that I made do I say that predjudice does not exist?
- Where do I say you said that 'prejudice does not exist'? Aren't you twisting my statement? - In my statement I used the expression 'the prejudice,' meaning the prejudice against Poles in the US. I didn't mention prejudice in the vague general sense that you seem to mean. So does the prejudice against Poles exist in the US, or not, Ranj?
re: "PROVE IT" [that Latinos have incomparably more rights, respect and prominence in US than the Poles - P.]
- Oh boy. For example, they are incomparably more numerous and prominent in American politics than Poles. American voters seem to be more willing to choose a Latino as their representative than a Pole. They and their countries of origin are represented incomparably more postively in the American media than Poles and Poland. Their history, culture and surnames aren't ridiculed, e.g. in 'ethnic' slurs. In numerous instances they, not the Poles, get certain (good) jobs. The attitude of an average American is thus far more respectful and positive towards a Latino than a Pole. I've had hundreds of experiences in this respect, in both US and Canada.
re: the US has more Mexicans coming here because of the location, just as the UK has more Polish people coming there
- That's the kind of 'thinking' that is typical of many Americans in regard to the issue. I've met (nasty) examples of it also on the internet, e.g. on the discussion site of The Scotsman, where participants from America compare - hatefully - Poles coming to work in UK to Mexicans sneaking into the US. Here you come - that's the category some (quite numerous) Americans classify us to. (I don't mean any disrespect to Mexicans here; I'm just talking about the American negative attitude towards them and us.) Did it ever occur to you and some of your compatriots, Ranj, that Poles coming to work in UK differ from Mexicans coming to US in that they don't sneak, but come legally...?
re: You said it yourself, you are a "victim".
- What is the 'it' I allegedly said myself? So am I a victim? Why?
re: Don't know if you realize it or not, but we are responsible for our own happiness in life......you can choose to play the victim and complain, or you can do sth with your life and make yourself happy.....:)
- And that's also the kind of delusional, divorced from political-economic reality, self-complacent, arrogant (and mortally boring) 'thinking' often encountered in America and Canada. - And it appears to me, Ranj, that by preaching to me condescendingly, as above, for a delusional reason, you're making a great fool of yourself. :)
re: I said that most likely it was his issue and the people he had come across that had sth against HIM and not an entire race......
- Well, perhaps you've got some sound evidence enabling you to babble as above. Do you? If so, what's the evidence, Ranj?
:)
Does the US have approximately:
14% Hispanic population
3% Polish population
Somebody correct me if these figures are wildly inaccurate.
You would expect the Latin population, based on sheer numbers, to be more prominent.
14% Hispanic population
3% Polish population
Somebody correct me if these figures are wildly inaccurate.
You would expect the Latin population, based on sheer numbers, to be more prominent.
Dual
7 Sep 2007 / #145
Spanish is the second official language of the USA.
Actually Janek, America has no official language which is why we can't demand that immigrants have a certain level of English before they receive permanent status or visas (which many Americans would love to have changed, but it goes against the principles of what the country was founded on). There is an English language requirement for citizenship, but it's a (painfully) low level.
So you see, we have no official first language so we can't have a second one.
re: The visible minorities haven't been harassed (to the same degree anyway) in the UK for some time now..
- 'Visible minorities'? What the devil is that? Does it follow there are also invisible minorities? Which do you belong to, ahem, sage?
re: In Poland...? Well.... lets leave that for the moment..
- How about the harassment of Poles by your 'visible minorities'? Let's talk about it right now. For instance, how about 'Lord' Philips's slandering the Polish guest workers in one of the rags in UK?
re: Do not make the mistake of attributing their idiocy to their race, just as I will by not attributing yours to your "race"
- Do you mean you will make the mistake of attributing their idiocy to their race, and you will make it by not attributing my idiocy to my 'race'? Can you explain this profound thought of yours, oh sage?
So according to you I possess some idiocy? Please enlighten me in this matter.
Another racist-hypocrite, with his yap full of pseudo-human-rights slogans about 'visible minorities,' 'harassment', and the like?
By the way, isn't it interesting that scores of racists are active and even have well-paid jobs in the 'human rights' field?
:)
re: You would expect the Latin population, based on sheer numbers, to be more prominent
- Do you mean that the prominence of a population depends on its number alone?
- 'Visible minorities'? What the devil is that? Does it follow there are also invisible minorities? Which do you belong to, ahem, sage?
re: In Poland...? Well.... lets leave that for the moment..
- How about the harassment of Poles by your 'visible minorities'? Let's talk about it right now. For instance, how about 'Lord' Philips's slandering the Polish guest workers in one of the rags in UK?
re: Do not make the mistake of attributing their idiocy to their race, just as I will by not attributing yours to your "race"
- Do you mean you will make the mistake of attributing their idiocy to their race, and you will make it by not attributing my idiocy to my 'race'? Can you explain this profound thought of yours, oh sage?
So according to you I possess some idiocy? Please enlighten me in this matter.
Another racist-hypocrite, with his yap full of pseudo-human-rights slogans about 'visible minorities,' 'harassment', and the like?
By the way, isn't it interesting that scores of racists are active and even have well-paid jobs in the 'human rights' field?
:)
re: You would expect the Latin population, based on sheer numbers, to be more prominent
- Do you mean that the prominence of a population depends on its number alone?
Do you mean that the prominence of a population depends on its number alone?
Not on number alone. There are other factors. A long-established population would be expected to have either assimilated entirely into the general population, or at least to have found its feet economically. Sometimes, cultural factors either by the general population or by the minority groups, may hold back or even increase the rate of this development.
But there is a large difference in numbers. When a 'community' reaches a certain size, political parties or institutions find they need to 'reach out' to these communities...
re Nowadays, the tension seems to be more focused in the UK due to the influx of PL and dwindling jobs
- In reality, there's a much bigger 'influx' of non-Poles to UK, than Poles. It's enough to have a walk in any Brit city to see this. What dwindlng jobs? The (low-paid, low-status)jobs the Poles take are so numerous there's an acute shortage of labour for them. Folks often work 'long shifts' (minimum ca 12 hours) for this reason.
re: When a 'community' reaches a certain size, political parties or institutions find they need to 'reach out' to these communities...
- Well, there are Polish communities in America that are of a very considerable size, and yet no political parties or institutions 'reach out' to them strongly enough so that a Pole can have real prominence in them.
The institutional Polonophobia in America is epic. Take, for instance, the issue of visas for the Poles.
- In reality, there's a much bigger 'influx' of non-Poles to UK, than Poles. It's enough to have a walk in any Brit city to see this. What dwindlng jobs? The (low-paid, low-status)jobs the Poles take are so numerous there's an acute shortage of labour for them. Folks often work 'long shifts' (minimum ca 12 hours) for this reason.
re: When a 'community' reaches a certain size, political parties or institutions find they need to 'reach out' to these communities...
- Well, there are Polish communities in America that are of a very considerable size, and yet no political parties or institutions 'reach out' to them strongly enough so that a Pole can have real prominence in them.
The institutional Polonophobia in America is epic. Take, for instance, the issue of visas for the Poles.
Puzzler
In response to your last long response specifically directed to me: What's wrong Puzzly, did I hit a nerve? ;)
You truly make me smile! Have a fantastic weekend! :)
I have little knowledge of the situation in America.
However, if half the population votes, then half of the Latin 15% of the population is worth grabbing if you're trying to get elected.
A few speeches in Spanish, a couple of policies that supposedly appeal to them.
A 3% of the population group won't be singled out as a specific concern.
In the UK, therre are plenty of jobs that need filling.
Not everyone is prepared to take these jobs.
People come in to do them.
Some people like to play the victim.
Why have the English been singled out in the title of this thread?
What about Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish, Irish, other European nations with an influx of Polish migrants?
If anyone doesn't know the differences between terms such as English, British, the UK, I can explain!
However, if half the population votes, then half of the Latin 15% of the population is worth grabbing if you're trying to get elected.
A few speeches in Spanish, a couple of policies that supposedly appeal to them.
A 3% of the population group won't be singled out as a specific concern.
In the UK, therre are plenty of jobs that need filling.
Not everyone is prepared to take these jobs.
People come in to do them.
Some people like to play the victim.
Why have the English been singled out in the title of this thread?
What about Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish, Irish, other European nations with an influx of Polish migrants?
If anyone doesn't know the differences between terms such as English, British, the UK, I can explain!