Donald Tusk - the worst PM of 3rd RP.

Are you talking the whole time about a russian conspiracy against poor Poland???
I could have bet you meant Germany...


They don't have to try very hard actually.
Germany is the most populous country in the EU, and the second one in Europe.
Our economy is the biggest one in Europe and the third biggest in the world..our GDP alone is the size of several smaller countries together.

You will have to bear with an influential Germany...we can't change it for you.
It's no ill will!

Do you have an idea how much power Germany gives up actually being in the union and letting other countries having so much say in it? Even if they don't bring nearly as

much "to the table"?
Would Poland ever do the same if the situation were reversed???

All very good points.

Gumishu, I suggest you just quit while you have a shred of respect left. You are making us Poles look like fools.

the thing is man you are not trying to get some things into consideration

you just refuse to consider the possibility that there are Poles who further German interests in Poland (in various areas) - and I tell you there are for some reasons or other. I don't ask you to believe me - I ask you to consider this.

over 50 per cent of the press in Poland is in German hands (Axel Springer, Neue Passauer Presse and others - Axel Springer said to be targeting 'Rzeczpospolita' at the moment)

some things don't get much publicity - you doubt it???
there are a number of institutions in Poland funded by the EU that promote things say 'European' as say Lisbon Treaty (haven't I mentioned who presses for the Lisbon treaty the most)

btw Axel Springer owned Fakt leads in spreading anti German stereotypes exactly as the same company's Bild in German spreads anti-Polish rubbish (every sport event including the nations is an opportunity but there definitely are more). Any wonder why?

btw what is the difference of conquering a nation militarily or controlling it from inside or exerting such pressure (economic, political) that it yields to your demands - it is all old-style colonialism/imperialism just different means

it does not share much with cooperation

hegemony is not partnership
and I see in Germans a dream for hegemony over Europe
and this is what I think Kaczynski meant when he said "There is something bad going on in Germany'

In EU you simply suck,smile and remain silent.Then you get the money.I think the Poles have not learned the lesson to remain silent.

Well...then what do you bring into the partnership?
You can't honestly accuse Germany of being big and rich, don't you?

If you don't like the newspapers then don't read it...nobody is forcing you.

And the german ownership of some polish press was actually a big thing back during the european football championship, remember?
It was a german owned polish paper:

And as everybody and his grandmother knows about it it's hardly a hidden secretly conspiracy, isn't it!


...and still they get the money! How come?

You want to be a partner??? Then do something else but throwing tantrums..
Where are your ideas about what Poland could do? You are only complaining all the time about what Germany does or not does...you are really obsessed, aren't you!


Another nutter...

If there really would be somthing "bad" going on do you really think we would suffer you like we actually do?

you have a rare ability to extract things out of context and put them into different one.
but I'd lie if I tell I envy you

how do you know your political and financial elites are not dreaming of "German Europe"
I somehow detest the idea.

we do share our markets, we do allow foreigners to buy land soon - taking into consideration the wealth discrepancy it is quite a lot; German nationals can work in Poland considerably more freely (if not completely freely) than Poles in Germany, German companies get plenty of Polish construction contracts while there are many obstacles put in front of Polish companies in Germany; Do you want money out of a poor country??? and ay, we at the very moment are a netto payer into the EU (reason is fault on the side of our present government, to a lesser extent on previous governments)

You repeat yourself here and I still don't know what you mean with that....


And you are fully right with that...I detest this idea too.
But the problem here is that Germany has some kind of power and hegemony already only because we exist.
Did you actually read what I wrote?
Germany IS the most wealthy, most populous country...being influential comes with the territory....what should we do to make you feel better?
Getting poor? Splitting into several small parts???

I actually think Germany often enough (much to often for my taste) doesn't wield her power as much as we could...instead always trying to moderate, to find compromises.

And I very much doubt Poland would do the same if they were in Germany's position...
You would NEVER alllow any other country having a say in your politics and economics at all...your "polish pride" wouldn't allow that!

this is just theorising Bratwurst

and there is your very real desire to unleash power (i have seen in many posts in German internet the same longing)
and how do you imagine wielding more power in German case?

sorry but I couldn't find a trace of this compromise attitude during quadrat Wuerzel hype. (proportional or we kick you)

and go and look - some serious folks supported Polish idea (i mean scientists)

yes Kaczynskis have eventually traded the idea for some other concessions but they are time-limited (the concessions) in the end. God knows what happens when the whole of Franco-German vote power unveils thereafter.

Now isn't it interesting how exactly you know my desires???
Of course you know me better than I do...how could I forget...


Well..thist horrible franco-german voting power did very well till now and build something great and worthwhile during the last decades...whereas you did...what exactly?

When you prefer to leave the EU you are all free to go....or maybe Germany and France should leave?

you just mix things - wasn't there a common enemy in the times Europe started to unite

didn't it change things a bit?

now you are trying to be best buddies with a country that is quite keen on bullying us

no need to rethink some ideas?

For Germans, alot did change...that's why we want to cooperate with Russia for example instead of reliving cold war times!
It seems some Poles are still stuck in the past, feeling threatened by both, Germany and Russia...out of habit...no changes for them....

Are you only happy if there is quarrel and strife in Europe? Does that make you snicker gleefully in your corner after you successfully "tread on toes" again?

you just seem not to notice one thing - we have been bullied by your friend of choice
quite recently
even now

you have no real answer to our problems with Russians - all you say is we should cooperate - tell it to the Russians (or the horse marines)

what kind of strife is Poland raising with Russia?

btw you don't get me - when the Europe started uniting (western part of course) there was a common enemy - the Soviet bloc - my view is it was a very important factor - it was quite real incentive to cooperate

now that Germany actually seem to oversee Polish trouble with Russia (not only Polish btw) cause want dearly to be best friends where do you see the incentives to cooperate politically

btw as far as I know the time when the Russians imposed an embargo on Polish meat, German (and several other European countries) authorities started to financially support meat exports to Russia (german meat exports had been too expansive for Russians before)- was it a sign of solidarity with Poles ? if you don't show much solidarity how you expect us not to fight for our interests?

Well...you are not leaving one chance go by to willfully antagonize Russia (as did the Kaczinskys with Germany too) so my compassion with you is very limited.

Remember Iraq? Couldn't wait to brown nose the US against the majority of the union.
Remember the shield? Couldn't wait to lick Bush ass against the wishes of the majority in the union, Germany and even in your own country...fully knowing that this must be seen as an agressive act in Russia.

You are so peaceful and innocent and nice and cuddly...not!


How is that for an answer to your problems?


Because it's petty and idiotic? Remember we know what the Russians are going through with you...you are not behaving much differently with Germany! Trying to antagonize and irritate and annoy whenever you can...


Any link for that?

Interesting article: ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39606


You better wake up soon...it's a whole new world waiting outside!


Yeah...germanophobia and russophobia!

Maybe it will come to that...either you leave or we (the core countries) will leave the union.
I wonder how you will like that then..

you really want to talk ********, suit yourself

you know actually nothing about Poland you just deceive yourself you do

how come the shield is aggressive towards Germany - can't really think - you must be talking esoterics

or is it that Germany sees America as an enemy

The shield shifting powers in Europe??? in what terms? that any invasion of Poland by the Russians would affect American troops.

Why is Germany affraid of American troops in Poland???

Is America a threat to Germany?

in what you write and think one can clearly see there is little that actually holds the NATO states together. Your attitude is overwhelmingly dominating in Germany (again media job). by the way there is some strong feeling of self-righteousness among Germans and it is growing. (it's America who are bad guys - we're the good guys and so are our friends Russians) suit yourself

but in the light of that you should not be suprised to see Poland trying to have closer relations with the US even if trying in vain or naivly.

The majority of Poles are in favour of the shield now. The conditions negotiated were quite favorable to Poland.

Even though America has been cynical toward Poles, Germany is a lot more (and France along the lines), there is no real intention of cooperation with Poland and no inteniton whatsover to treat Poland as a partner by the German official spheres. Just emtpy words from times to times.

Russia is a bully. Unless it changes in future you will find it out (or you will side with them to bully others - your moral choice - just remember the choices German nation made in the past - yes they were moral choices - even though you'd preffer technological ones)

Sorry in what way Polish attitude towards the Russian meat and later fruit and veg embargo is idiotic? How is cooperation possible when there is no will to cooperate on the Russian side. At the moment Russia allowed for some symbolic imports of Polish meat. Are there any Russian food inspectors controlling facilities in the EU on a regular base? Or is it the Poland is just nagged by the Russians. (Btw there were some indications that the incident that gave rise to the meat ban have been fabricated by Russians. But you don't believe in conspiracies. Any. Ever. You don't believe Polish cryptologists broke the Enigma codes either. (or maybe by chance) Those damn Poles. Had there been no Poland Germany would be so much better off. )

You personally are brainwashed (by the (mostly German) media - I know such types) this is my opinion and I'm not going to engage in any further discussion with you.

And by the way I will find a link for that export support by the German government. And this will be my last post for you to read.

The ips article you link is strongly biased. Plasticly European Russianophilic way. Well the Russians don't economise on publicity (PR) and neither on various types of agents. Btw it is an OOOOLD one. and God biaaased it is. heheh

Leave even now. You core countries heheh. :) Another way of blackmailing.
Anyway there won't finally be any threat that the Polish state should 'compensate' for the expelees.

Blah..blah...and blah!

And of course everything not talking like you want is "biased"..suuuuuure...
That's why your potatoe heads were so widely popular in Europe and no common sigh of relief was heard across Europe as the first got thrown out at last!

Germany herself has american soldiers on her soil and they pose no problems....the shield is something else.
But maybe you are hot on russian missiles in Kaliningrad?


Well..you are not very forthcoming either...always demanding, expecting, screaming...never giving!

Sorry, in my eyes it's not Russia trying to bully!


Well...sometimes I wish you were somebody elses neighbour.

But then I get reminded that most Poles are quite modern and realistic and want to cooperate or your PiS would still rule instead of being marginalized by the broad public

who doesn't share your paranoia!

There is hope! :)


Sure..to have another opinion of you can only mean "brainwashing", "bias" or even worse, a "conspiracy" against Poland....suuuuure!


Why do you want to trade meat with Russia at all if they are so mean bullies???
Maybe if you hadn't stepped on their toes so often and so gleefully you both had solved
this little spat long already?


Where did I say that and what has this to do with this discussion?


Knock yourself out!


Yes core countries...those who build it all up and even now pay your bill...hehe

Ughhh.. what a waste of money. I kill still remember knicking a tree with our APC in Hohenfels and the ranger or whoever behind recording the charges. We should get the hell off German soil. I like Germany personally but we can't afford this crap anymore!

Agree...maybe soon there will be spend much less internationally...

I don't see how they have a choice anymore. $10 trillion in debt and you still want to play around on somebody else's soil. ;- ( Anyway.. Tusk

The price you pay for an imperialistic agenda, I agree guys. The PNAC brought this about and it's totally unnecessary.

Tusk would likely be all for this too.