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EU constitution: 'Strong show' for Irish No vote ?


Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,629  
13 Jun 2008 /  #31
?

What was so funny?

PS: Interesting...german politicians are already demanding a "reestablishment" or a "reorganization" of the EU

spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,559572,00.html

"The base should be a strong, understandable treaty and every country can decide then if they want to follow this treaty and enter the new EU..."

(I told you so...)
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
13 Jun 2008 /  #32
You are asking for serious answers to a serious questions that we do not know anything about.
But seriously you are right, you obviously know what you are not talking about
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,629  
13 Jun 2008 /  #33
You don't need a treaty for that problem SeanB...it seems Poles and also Irlanders want the same say in all questions like the biggies, understandable!

Every country the same voice, unanimous consent...

But we see and know that the EU can't work that way! I told you my solution...but neither you nor Lukasz present another, better solution.

I tell you why, there isn't any!

The article I linked to (sadly only in German) states explicitely that the EU became to large to work without a form of treaty or constitution.

SOMETHING HAS TO GIVE!

PS: And not to forget the Treaty of Lisbon is already the reworked, watered down version of another, the REAL one...I've heard experts saying that the Lisbon treaty is so much softened, so much watered down that many important things were left out or only the most common nominator were used...not that what a strong treaty should be!
OP Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
13 Jun 2008 /  #34
form situation we have ... only americans chinese russians ... can be happy.

we need to work something out.

everybody agrees. Lest wait for Irish politicans and what they have to say. and for other eu politicans opinions.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
13 Jun 2008 /  #35
youtube.com/watch?v=3jlXnQEgbuw, my non-academic contribution

We Can Work It Out
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
13 Jun 2008 /  #36
Ok, let Ireland run the EU
We should have an on line vote as to which country should just run the EU?
Name of country Votes for country leading the EU
Austria 0
Belgium 0
Bulgaria 0
Cyprus 0
Czech Republic 0
Denmark 0
Estonia 0
Finland 0
France 0
Germany -2
Greece 0
Hungary 0
Ireland, Republic of (EIRE) 1
Italy 0
Latvia 0
Lithuania -1000
Luxembourg 0
Malta 0
Netherlands 0
Poland 1
Portugal 0
Romania 0
Slovakia 0
Slovenia 0
Spain 0
Sweden 0
United Kingdom -50
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,629  
13 Jun 2008 /  #37
Lithuania - 1000 ???

What did they ever do to you? :)
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
13 Jun 2008 /  #38
Lots, trust me you do not want them to rule
osiol 55 | 3,922  
13 Jun 2008 /  #39
Viking - Some
North Utsire - Some more
South Utsire - Some less
Dogger - 1
Fisher - 2
German Bight - 0
Lundy - Only on Monday
Irish Sea - 3
Rockall - Rock all
Faeroes - Nil(e)
Ireland - Seems like a nice enough place. Not quite as wet as any of the others in this list.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
13 Jun 2008 /  #40
Not quite as wet as any of the others in this list.

Actually my main problem with Ireland is the rain, I hate rain. I formed a hypothesis that we have a pub culture because it rains all the time. I was shocked when I first came to Poland and the weather forecast was not some dope telling the viewers that there will be bits of rain through out the day.

Excuse me for getting off subject
Kev A 2 | 64  
13 Jun 2008 /  #41
Im pretty sure it has been rejected. Some parts of Dublin are in favour but the rest of the country is against.
So the Irish say "thank you Europe for all your money over the past 30 years. Now **** Off".
Not very grateful of them. Damned Paddys daring to replicate the actions of the Dutch and French.
...
what does this say about the world in which we live?????

We had been colonised for 800 years and we are a republic now and as a democracy we have the right to vote as we please, where do you get off with your Paddy reference,? you know what, go F u c k yourself, we are not bedfellows of the Sheep followers in Europe. We showed backbone, something the Brits failed to suppress and we'll go from strength to strength as we have done since Kevin Barry's day, and A s s h o l e, there is a distinction between the old IRA and what purported to be the same organisation of late so please go join the Nazi party if you are not happy, it's a group whereyou may find some solice and happiness, obviously a democracy isn't where you feel comfortable. I'm so disinterested in where you are from I never bothered to check, the British politicians and others are delighted so who cares what you think.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
13 Jun 2008 /  #42
Kev A

I took real offense to what he said too.
You know the way american black people sometimes call each other niger but nobody else can, well I think it is the same with Paddy, anyone can say it just not the English.
Kev A 2 | 64  
13 Jun 2008 /  #43
Ah SB, you made my day, sorry for the bad language, it's not my thing but my Head was red ( Shaved Head) :0)
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
13 Jun 2008 /  #44
I agree, I am 25% Irish and calling sb Paddy is just not on.

PS What's wrong with Sheep followers? ;)
Kev A 2 | 64  
13 Jun 2008 /  #45
PS What's wrong with Sheep followers? ;)

Ha ha, that's another thread, possibly the kinky one ;o)
miranda  
13 Jun 2008 /  #46
PS What's wrong with Sheep followers? ;)

yah, what is wrong with that;). I am back BTW,
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
13 Jun 2008 /  #47
you made my day,

Glad to hear it.

What's wrong with Sheep followers? ;)

nothing, I wear green so the sheep cant see me sneak up behind then, when they look back through their legs,hhhmmm sounds better down the pub...

And at least you are 25% good ;)
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
13 Jun 2008 /  #48
I am Celtic so I aspire to be 100% good. Sorry, I'm not taking the bait lad ;)

Hi Miranda btw

Ceut mille fhailte, all is well

Go Celtic Lions and Tigers
noimmigration  
13 Jun 2008 /  #49
So the Irish say "thank you Europe for all your money over the past 30 years. Now **** Off".

And was has poland ever contributed to the EU. ?
irishdeano 5 | 304  
13 Jun 2008 /  #50
i can laugh at you people the money ireland has got out of the eu has nothing to do with it....irish people were not informed about this treaty and first of all this treaty would not have helped the people of europe.it was just have lined the pockets of the top men..and another thing ireland let its people have say in its own country...i know for sure if everyother country had a vote other countries would have said no...this is not the end of this treaty...it will be the end of the lisbon 1 and it will change its name and a few rules and thats it maybe it will even be called the good friday agreement :P :D lol
Deise 07 3 | 76  
13 Jun 2008 /  #51
Jaysus - calm down there horse - Im Irish, and posting right now from the heart of the Liberties. Ever hear of "irony"? Now put on your ironic hat, re-read my post and if you still feel like commenting then maybe we can discuss.

The reference to the IRA was simplistic but it was made in the knowledge that this is a "Polish" forum wherever most people would not be expected to have a broad knowledge of Irish history.

*Note - absence of irony in following paragraph*

As for the result of this vote, while Im glad in a way that the establishment took a kick in the goolies, Im not sure if it will do us any good in the world of real politik. Fact is we're better off within the EU than outside of it. The noises coming from Germany and elsewhere already is that they may be contemplating moving ahead without us.

To me however, as per my initial post, the real issue is that this treaty would probably have been rejected in many of the countries of Europe. Nontheless, the entire political establishment are in favour. One has to wonder why and what is says about our democracy Europe-wide?
Crow 146 | 9,097  
13 Jun 2008 /  #52
Ireland is island of resistance to global hegemonism
Kev A 2 | 64  
13 Jun 2008 /  #53
Simplisticaly, they cannot move ahead without us, if, however, they do, then there is something intrinsically wrong with the EU. Who in their right mind would sign a contract for a new job without reading the contract down to the small print. The option not to vote was a no go. I doubt very much if the Irish want to be, or will be outside the EU, what I am saying is that if the EU purports to be the ultimate in Democratic process it would definitely be indicating that this is not the case if it were to ignore the population of a country, say screw you, we're going ahead without you. What would the point of allowing the country the right of referendum to then snub the people and the result, I've climbed down now and havin' a sasperilla!
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
13 Jun 2008 /  #54
our proposal was to give votes based on square roots of populations (the bigest countries would be the strongest but there would be change in proportions) later we agreed for other solution ...

I hope that was a joke...

I do think BB was right about protesting for protestings sake...how can a person make an informed decision if they dont actually have the information...
Deise 07 3 | 76  
13 Jun 2008 /  #55
I agree with you. Europe has been very good to Ireland but as you say, you cant expect people to vote for something they dont understand and fair play to them in that regard.

However, I cant see the politicians scrapping something they have been working on for seven years on the basis of us having voted No. I just hope we arent penalised in some way for this. God knows things are getting pretty bad economically of late and we may need all the friends we can get if the sh*t really begins to hit the fan.
Kev A 2 | 64  
13 Jun 2008 /  #56
True, but all of the revenue generated by the boom does not necessarily reside in Irish coffers, lots has made it's way legitimately to other countries like our beloved Poland and other parts of Europe, hopefully this won't be forgotten and while I am at it let's also hope that the rest of Europe doesn't suffer more than us.

It amazes me though that everyone assumes the worst and has no confidence in the other Heads of the EU, that they will behave in a mature and logical way. Given how reactive various nations have become in relation to the huge increases in cost of fuel etc, Governments are balanced on a very creaky Fence, upset the equilibrium with that going on in the background and all hell could break loose.

By the way, the rant was on the back of a url I was sent recently re Kevin Barry, from my Girlfriend of a few years in Canada. I had no idea she was so interested in Irish history, you learn something new every day. Not sure about rules re posting urls, if it's inappropriate, I apologise in advance.

ireland-information.com/articles/kevinbarry.htm
Deise 07 3 | 76  
13 Jun 2008 /  #57
By the way, the rant was on the back of a url I was sent recently re Kevin Barry, from my Girlfriend of a few years in Canada. I had no idea she was so interested in Irish history, you learn something new every day. Not sure about rules re posting urls, if it's inappropriate, I apologise in advance.

You might enjoy this so - hadnt heard this one in a long time!

youtube.com/watch?v=4VlPVzM97Eo

As for our economic prospect, Im very pessimistic to be honest. Im noticing a lot of retail businesses closing around Dublin city centre for the first time in many years.I wouldnt be surprised if the No vote on Lisbon was in response to people feeling a lot more insecure in their own personal circumstances.

Only this evening on RTE news, there was a piece about a FAS European jobs fair to be held in Dublin over the next couple of days. Construction companies from all over Europe (including Poland) coming to recruit people for projects in their own countries due to the large rise in Irish unemployment in the sector. While some wll obviously target Poles and other non-Irish people working here, many are targeting Irish people. It seems the boom times are over and we're heading back to the bad old days - for a time at least...
lesser 4 | 1,311  
14 Jun 2008 /  #58
Personally I'm delighted with such outcome, it appears that Irish people saved Europe from disaster at least for a while. As you know Polish regime (supported by all parliamentary parties) stripped me from opportunity to vote on this issue. This is progress, previously opponents of the EU were excluded from serious debate and ridiculed by all mainstream media outlets. However we could vote, today this is not the case. The rest of European political establishment with glorious exception of Ireland behave in similar manner.

Now when we know the decision of brave Irish people whom were under huge pressure of Brussels propaganda, we can also read first comments of European political establishment. What the say? Basically they say that they don't care about Irish referendum and they will do what they want anyway. Let remember that Brussels bureaucrats and those European politicians on their payroll already before practically annulled the results of referendums in France and Netherlands where people rejected their pathetic ideas present in project of the pseudo-constitution.

How should citizens of the EU member states react when they witness such a farce. Because this is nothing else than farce, political establishment with full mouth of democratic slogans, arrogantly and shamelessly raping democratic standards, refuse European societies an opportunity to decide about affairs in their own countries. Personally I'm not great enthusiast of democracy but even myself cannot stand this hypocrisy all over around. The question is how ordinary people who consider themselves to be democrats could patiently accept how politicians make fools out of them? How could I respect your opinions if I see just empty slogans while actions say something else? How long this farce will be tolerated, how damn tolerant one can be? :)

So the Irish say "thank you Europe for all your money over the past 30 years. Now **** Off".

What do you think, that the EU bought slaves whom will always support their wet dreams about socialist Europe? How dare you to write "Europe" thinking about this bureaucratic mafia based in Brussels? Sure, they granted to themselves monopoly for "Europeiness" and call whoever disagree with them "anti-European". However are you a child to believe in such silly propaganda?

What have the E.U. ever done for Ireland?

They imposed on this country huge and completely ridiculous bureaucracy.

I must admit that this treaty was made in way to give more power for big countries on cost of small countries.

More power to bigger countries is just a carrot on the stick for people like BB. The same is with money for new members, this is a carrot for you. Those who gain are Brussels bureaucrats, they are the only winners here.

Lets celebrate this temporary success. :)
lesser 4 | 1,311  
14 Jun 2008 /  #60
I don't speak German.

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