Blood libel fresco in Polish cathedral?

Gary Busey - | 51

2 Sep 2008 / #31

You said that "According to the Israeli-Jewish professor, Dr. Ariel Toaff, such sacrifices may have occurred". The quote supposedly by him was that some ritual murders "might have taken place." You say "sacrifices", the supposed quote is "ritual murders"; you say "may", the supposed quote is "might".

Once again, Harry, you seem to have misplaced your reading glasses. (Or perhaps your computer screen is not set to optimum contrast and character-display.) You will notice, upon re-reading my original post, that I never quoted Dr. Toaff, I paraphrased him, rendering your confused commentary above quite superfluous.

As I said: Re-read your quoted material. I suggest more research.

bloodpassover.com

I make no claims as to the validity of Dr. Toaff's work. I simply include it here for any interested parties as a matter of historical and religious curiosity.

Harry

2 Sep 2008 / #32

That isn't Dr Toaff's work. That is the work of two Italians who claim it is a translation of his work. Seeing as those two 'gentlemen' also claim that

Prof. Toaff has since partially recanted, and now maintains that:
- yes, Jews are a corrupting and disruptive element in society;
- yes, Jews lend money at 40% and seem to do little else;

bloodpassover.com/toaffexcerpt.htm

I think that we probably should not place too much faith in what they say Dr Toaff says.

Gary Busey - | 51

2 Sep 2008 / #33

And now for some further exegesis on the "Blood Passover" controversy (from the online version of the magazine Forward, 02.16.2007):

forward.com/articles/10085/

From an article on the Chassidic site Dei'ah veDibur:

Toaff, considered Bar-Ilan's expert on the history of Italian Jewry, told the Italian media that he does not believe such murders took place, but he hinted that Jews could have murdered Christians to exact revenge for antisemitic persecution. Toaff complained that he has received death threats and expressed resentment over the condemnation of his work.

chareidi.shemayisrael.com/archives5767/mishpotim/alibelmsh67.htm

This cryptic quotation is self-contradictory, but consistent with the possibility of a false "recantation." It is entirely plausible that Dr. Toaff believes that some estranged and isolated Ashkenazic cults may have practiced ritual murder, but under a deluge of pressure (including death-threats from extremist Jews), he has engaged in a series of inconsistent and vacillating retractions.

As a matter of personal discernment, I will leave it to the reader to decide Dr. Toaff's true thoughts on the matter. For any interested parties, the original Italian version (including illustrations) of Dr. Ariel Toaff's "Blood Passover" is available for free download at the following web address:

laboratorio99.com/upload/Pasque%20di%20Sangue.pdf

Harry

3 Sep 2008 / #34

Interesting that you quote what Luzzatto, a book reviewer, says about the book says rather than what the author says the book says.

Also interesting that despite the article you quote from having a very clear statement that Toaff's book does not argue that some Christian children were killed by fundamentalist Ashkenazic Jews, you don't quote that part of the article.

Though it is now clear that the review was in many ways at odds with Toaff's actual findings, it nevertheless set the tone for the discussion that followed - including a swift and ferocious critical backlash.

joepilsudski 26 | 1,388

3 Sep 2008 / #35

That film features Vicki Polin, who was quite clearly insane at the time the show was recorded. Interestingly she will no longer make any comment at all on her appearance on Oprah.

When was she declared insane?...Was this a legal definition?...Of course, there was no further comment...too controversial a subject to discuss...If the information imparted on the show was false & libelous, was Oprah sued?...Did you know that there was a major case in the US, which was centered in the state of Nebraska, called the 'Franklin' case, involving the kidnapping and murder of children. most of whom were sold into prostitution, and some ritually slaughtered, that led up to the highest levels of the Republican Party, even implicating former President George HW Bush?...a pedophile/pornography/snuff ring...fomer Nebraska State Senator John DeCamp wrote a detailed book about it called 'The Franklin Cover-Up'...A UK independent network did a documentary on it called 'Conspiracy of Silence'...The documentary was scheduled to be shown on the US Discover Channel...CIA/US Government quashed this, threatened the Discovery Channel, and had copies of the film/video confiscated...there are bootleg copies on YouTube...matters of child sacrifice/pedophilia get quashed, because many 'high level' pigs participate in this criminality...Do not discount what was shown on Oprah...I could go into great detail, but you check it out if you are interested...Some still think Lee Harvey Oswald shot JFK.