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What are your views (or Polish views) on abortion?


dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007  
6 Aug 2009 /  #61
You need rather think why your belief are sooooooo backward.

I don't, because when you add emotion to the equation, you end up making the wrong decisions. To be able to have an outside view and not get attached is a good ability, it allows you to think with logic, not emotional attachments. For example I have one pill that can cure a 79 year old from her terminal sickness, or save a child's life who is suffering from same sickness.... who do I give the pill to? Obviously the child as he/she will prosper more, and live for a longer time.

stand unchanged since Hippocrates wrote his oath.

If it wasn't for these so called hippocrates, I doubt JP2nd would have lasted as long as he did. Maybe you want to think carefully why there is an oath? It was really stupid thing to say I think, it shows your maturity on the subject.

You have wrote about your emotions.

his is really strange, once you accuse me of following a hippocratic oath, then you accuse me of too emotional??? Will you make up your mind?

Following an oath..... from you that is even funnier 10 commandment boy. Who pushes your "oaths" on other people. Again back to subject, as religion has nothing to do with this topic.
Tymoteusz 2 | 353  
6 Aug 2009 /  #62
Lets view abortion from a civil rights angle.

Abortion impacts 3 peoples lives, mother,father, and child. Why does a womans right outweigh these other two? Isn't it unjust for a man to have only responsibility yet no authority in this matter? Would'nt It be fair for a man who wanted a child aborted to sign a paper saying so and then be absolved of any financial responsibility? Why is it that when a man causes the abortion of a child using a pill or the "Falcon punch" he is a criminal, Yet, a woman can have a child aborted and it is considered perfectly fine?
niejestemcapita 2 | 561  
6 Aug 2009 /  #63
Why is it that when a man causes the abortion of a child using a pill or the "Falcon punch" he is a criminal, Yet, a woman can have a child aborted and it is considered perfectly fine?

what the hell is a "Falcon punch"?
Anyway the woman has to carry the child and give birth to it and (usuallY) provide for it.
So it's a bit different.
Although I agree that men get short shrift on this one, often sadly for them and the child.
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007  
6 Aug 2009 /  #64
Although I agree that men get short shrift on this one, often sadly for them and the child.

Its more to do with the physical side of it. Women have to do all the work, so even if a man says he wants an abortion, you cant violate the womans body because of it.
niejestemcapita 2 | 561  
6 Aug 2009 /  #65
exactly put....you have a better turn of phrase than me...:)
lesser 4 | 1,311  
6 Aug 2009 /  #66
I don't, because when you add emotion to the equation, you end up making the wrong decisions. To be able to have an outside view and not get attached is a good ability, it allows you to think with logic, not emotional attachments. For example I have one pill that can cure a 79 year old from her terminal sickness, or save a child's life who is suffering from same sickness.... who do I give the pill to? Obviously the child as he/she will prosper more, and live for a longer time.

But you are the one who is ruled by emotions as I stated earlier. Otherwise you would not write about poverty because this is not a subject of this thread.

If it wasn't for these so called hippocrates, I doubt JP2nd would have lasted as long as he did. Maybe you want to think carefully why there is an oath? It was really stupid thing to say I think, it shows your maturity on the subject.

Oath stand in defence of human life, literally oppose abortions. You really need to educate yourself...

his is really strange, once you accuse me of following a hippocratic oath, then you accuse me of too emotional??? Will you make up your mind?

Nonsense, you don't follow oath and I never claimed otherwise.

Following an oath..... from you that is even funnier 10 commandment boy. Who pushes your "oaths" on other people. Again back to subject, as religion has nothing to do with this topic.

Gosh, you really have some obsession! In our little conversation you are the only one who is writing about religion over and over. I did not mention religion even once, are you blind?
Tymoteusz 2 | 353  
6 Aug 2009 /  #67
what the hell is a "Falcon punch"?

It is a literally a punch or strike designed to knock a fetus loose from the uterine wall. It causes spontaneous abortion. I personally find the practice reprehensible, but I am not suprised that men have come up with a way to regain some parity in an unjust situation.

I dare anyone to give me a compelling argument as to why a man should be punished for this and a woman not.
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007  
6 Aug 2009 /  #68
But you are the one who is ruled by emotions as I stated earlier. Otherwise you would not write about poverty because this is not a subject of this thread.

I write about poverty because of the amount of resources that are poured onto to that group when it comes to abortion. If you read me properly then you would have seen that shock horror, I agreed with your point.

Oath stand in defence of human life, literally oppose abortions. You really need to educate yourself...

That stands true untill you have situation that the life in the womb is worth risking the carriers life.

Nonsense, you don't follow oath and I never claimed otherwise.

If I didnt, i still wouldn't be a registered nurse. Still what are you talking about, cos i really am lost with this....what oath are we speaking about now, medical?

Gosh, you really have some obsession! In our little conversation you are the only one who is writing about religion over and over. I did not mention religion even once, are you blind?

Ah but I already know that from previous debates with you, that your opinion is only ruled by your religion.

I dare anyone to give me a compelling argument as to why a man should be punished for this and a woman not.

In the same way a man or woman shouldn't lay a finger on another person.... do you know the damage this can cause someone? I'm guessing not, but if you really approve in that practise then I guess murder (for the woman) is like water off a ducks back. Prat.
Tymoteusz 2 | 353  
6 Aug 2009 /  #69
In the same way a man or woman shouldn't lay a finger on another person.... do you know the damage this can cause someone? I'm guessing not, but if you really approve in that practise then I guess murder (for the woman) is like water off a ducks back. Prat.

dtaylor5632
Member
Threads: 3
Posts: 254
Joined: May 2, 09

Take a Paxil and re-read my post.

If you are so concerned about a womans health, We need to bring parity to this situation to protect the lives of women don't we? Its the only way!
niejestemcapita 2 | 561  
6 Aug 2009 /  #70
I dare anyone to give me a compelling argument as to why a man should be punished for this and a woman not.

Because it's the womans body you oaf
Tymoteusz 2 | 353  
6 Aug 2009 /  #71
So you are saying that women should not bother men when they become pregnant. Go and have a baby, I'll be on holiday! Call me if you want another!

Prat-lol
lesser 4 | 1,311  
6 Aug 2009 /  #72
That stands true untill you have situation that the life in the womb is worth risking the carriers life.

Really? Let me know about criteria and who is a decider?

If I didnt, i still wouldn't be a registered nurse. Still what are you talking about, cos i really am lost with this....what oath are we speaking about now, medical?

Well, a registered nurse don't know text of Hippocratic oath... I think that before bureaucrats made registration to be obligatory this knowledge was more widespread among nurses! LOL! Please allow an engineer of electrotechnics to arrive with a help :)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath#Original

I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.

Ah but I already know that from previous debates with you, that your opinion is only ruled by your religion.

This is very comfortable attitude from your perspective, one cannot deny... :) I mean to reduce all my motives always to religious beliefs. This is how you think that you can get away without debating rationally. Don't even try to pretend that there was not plenty of religious people much smarter than you. People who had scientific knowledge

superiority to yours in practically all branches of science. You would look very silly if you would claim otherwise :)
niejestemcapita 2 | 561  
6 Aug 2009 /  #73
So you are saying that women should not bother men when they become pregnant. Go and have a baby, I'll be on holiday! Call me if you want another!

No That is not whatI said, it's what you're saying.
And anyone who can"lol" after proudly describing and defending the "falcon punch" is clearly a psychopath with whom it's hardly worth entering any kind of reasonable debate.
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007  
6 Aug 2009 /  #74
So you are saying that women should not bother men when they become pregnant.

Well then its still up to the guy to be safe, actually upto to them both. But you cant really complain for knocking someone up then don't take responsibility. I doubt turning round and punching the girl is the right way to go. I agree that men get a raw deal. In my opinion if the lass wants to keep the baby, she shouldnt force the guy into these high payments if he doesnt want to be part of its life.

Still, even mentioning that stupid falcon whatever, is fecked up.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
6 Aug 2009 /  #75
So you are saying that women should not bother men when they become pregnant. Go and have a baby, I'll be on holiday! Call me if you want another!

Some women simply lost their life instinct :) They don't really realize for what they are preaching. On other hand many men would find such situation very comfortable, one cannot deny :)
Tymoteusz 2 | 353  
6 Aug 2009 /  #76
Caregiver with out hippocratic oath = Medical mercenary.
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007  
6 Aug 2009 /  #77
Really? Let me know about criteria and who is a decider?

By whether a child will have a healthy life, or it could end up with the mothers life being taken due to complications during the birthing process.

I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.

Times have moved on mate, the oath evolves with the times.

Honestly, if your wife was pregnant, but you both were told by doctors that giving birth to that child would end her life..... what would you do?

I kinda bored of the convo really, closed mindedness is a real convo killer for me.

Caregiver with out hippocratic oath = Medical mercenary.

Na, just someone who can have opinions without it affecting my professional views. At work I do what I need to.
Tymoteusz 2 | 353  
6 Aug 2009 /  #78
Na, just someone who can have opinions without it affecting my professional views. At work I do what I need to.

Just follow'in orders! Be very careful with this mindset. Your humanity is in peril. I do understand the need for disassociation in medicine to a degree. Please respect and protect the rights of others who cannot perform the procedure. Will you? My wife is a nurse of 23 years.

I personally have little issue with abortion based on medical necessity,rape, or incest.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
6 Aug 2009 /  #79
By whether a child will have a healthy life, or it could end up with the mothers life being taken due to complications during the birthing process.

I agree with second option, if for example three unrelated specialist would rule out that there is serious threat for women life indeed. One for one is fair excuse.

But first option is so imprecise. Practically all babies could be killed using such excuses. When a child would be healthy enough to satisfy deciders? This is also kind of prophecy, while we know examples when women give a birth to supposed sick baby and everything was OK.

Times have moved on mate, the oath evolves with the times.

Wait! You claimed to be non-believer and if I understand correctly you suggest that Hippocrates resurrected , changed his mind and wrote completely different oath! :)

I kinda bored of the convo really, closed mindedness is a real convo killer for me.

No wonder that you are bored, it turned pretty miserable for you... :)
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444  
7 Aug 2009 /  #80
I guess this is matter of individual preferences.

you got that right. Please skip the judgement, since it is you who is having problems with painting people in B&W colours. Unless you cannot help yourself:)
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007  
7 Aug 2009 /  #81
No wonder that you are bored, it turned pretty miserable for you... :)

Like trying to teach a turd which way to swim ;)
FredChopin - | 61  
7 Aug 2009 /  #82
Really? Even if we ignore that this is new human life with different DNA... I think that this should work in other way around as well! What about supposed right of the men to say "F*ck off, I don't want this child! Farewell! " If women give a bright she could not demand any help from such brave man.

Maybe I was not sufficiently clear in my one lined opinion. I believe it is not human life until it's life can be sustained outside of the mother's womb. I don't support later term abortions (~>24 weeks).

As for the man's decision to say "I don't want this child", he should have thought of this before he impregnated the woman. Abstinence or birth control methods usually work quite well, when used properly. If the baby is brought to term, he should equally responsible for the care and upbringing of the child.

I criticized this approach and you did not reply. I understand because you have no proper arguments.

I did not reply as I did not read your post.

Finally I want to know, whether a men have a right to reject a child without any consequences?

No, if the baby is delivered healthy, the man should pay for the upbringing of the child. As I stated earlier, there are effective means of avoiding pregnancy.
Tymoteusz 2 | 353  
7 Aug 2009 /  #83
ITT: Two men arguing why women should be their masters! Stockholm syndrome anyone?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
lesser 4 | 1,311  
7 Aug 2009 /  #84
I believe it is not human life until it's life can be sustained outside of the mother's womb.

You are making your opinions based on personal belief, while scientific knowledge stand on my side.

As for the man's decision to say "I don't want this child", he should have thought of this before he impregnated the woman. Abstinence or birth control methods usually work quite well, when used properly. If the baby is brought to term, he should equally responsible for the care and upbringing of the child.

This is pure discrimination of the men. I must remind you that discrimination based on sex is forbidden in the EU! :)))) Firstly you deny them the rights to their children and later you force them to pay. This is some kind of radical feminism in action.

No, if the baby is delivered healthy, the man should pay for the upbringing of the child.

What about unhealthy (whatever that means!) child??
Such child don't deserve financial support of a men (called 'father' in backward circles)? (I don't even mention moral support...)
This is women fault?
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423  
7 Aug 2009 /  #85
This is pure discrimination of the men.

Well, I think the moment men are also able to be tortured by pressing a cannonball (after wearing it with us for 9 months) out of our arseholes the women will more readily share the responsibility with us.
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
7 Aug 2009 /  #86
How many times are we going to go over this very old boring topic.

1. Woman have abortions.

2. Women have safe abortions in countries where its legal

3. Woman do not die through having abortions to the degree they would if they were illegal.

4. Legalised abortion is a good thing.

5. If men had to have babies the abortion rate would be a lot higher.

6. People shouldnt judge a person for their actions if they dont know the other persons situation.

7. Why are men so moralist about this, they had their fun they walked away, what the hell do they care?

8. Its not just young stupid girls that abort, married people do.

9. Men convince women to abort.

10. Women have the right.

I know I havent covered everything, I dont believe I could because there are a million and one reasons and a million and one circumstances a woman would do it. Its a boring subject where those that agree will argue the case and those that dont will preach from the moral high ground.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
7 Aug 2009 /  #87
Well, I think the moment men are also able to be tortured by pressing a cannonball (after wearing it with us for 9 months) out of our arseholes the women will more readily share the responsibility with us.

Another feminist. You should be expelled from the EU! Where is Harry to condemn this awful discrimination?!

How many times are we going to go over this very old boring topic.

I guess as long as people like you will repeat this old boring song. So, blame yourself.
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007  
7 Aug 2009 /  #88
1. Woman have abortions.

2. Women have safe abortions in countries where its legal

3. Woman do not die through having abortions to the degree they would if they were illegal.

4. Legalised abortion is a good thing.

Agreed.

5. If men had to have babies the abortion rate would be a lot higher.

hmm not sure about this, us guys love our kids aswell.

6. People shouldnt judge a person for their actions if they dont know the other persons situation.

again agreed.

7. Why are men so moralist about this, they had their fun they walked away, what the hell do they care?

The women did too obviously... but they have the option, we dont.

9. Men convince women to abort.

Sometimes, and sometimes the woman aborts without telling the guy.

10. Women have the right.

Should men too? it takes two to tango ;)
LAGirl 9 | 496  
8 Aug 2009 /  #89
I only belive in abortion if the child was going to be severley retarded or was so deformed that it would die or a women was attacked.if a woman is attacked she should go right away to the hospital to get emergancy contraceptive to avoid prenancy.
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
8 Aug 2009 /  #90
I guess as long as people like you will repeat this old boring song. So, blame yourself.

Im not going to blame myself for the fact that women do not haemorrhage to death because they had a back street abortion.

hmm not sure about this, us guys love our kids aswell.

I dont deny that in any way shape or form, but bringing a life in to this world is a scary thing and being responsible for carrying it for 9 months is a big responsibility, something a man will never understand.

The women did too obviously... but they have the option, we dont.

Who said she had fun? Men are guaranteed an orgasm, pregnancy is proof of that, women on the other hand are not.

Sometimes, and sometimes the woman aborts without telling the guy.

Why do you think that is?

Should men too? it takes too to tango ;)

Only one to carry it for 9 months and take care of it for the rest of its life (Im saying it here because I dont want to appear sexist, shudder the thought Id get another 'ist' after my name!)

I only belive in abortion if the child was going to be severley retarded

Double standards. How do you know how "retarded" a child is going to be, where do you stop, spina bifida? Downs? The list is endless, are you saying, unless you have a "perfect" child, you are going to abort?

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