Polish-Islam Relationship Union

That's ur problem for sure..U ca not judge Islam through a single incident.He's muslim and what he did was wrong.This is it.If that was the way we judge ppl then all germans r maniacs who r born with the will to murder ppl .All english are racists .THIS is not true

But doesnt islam say that you can murder someone if they are unfaithful to their partner? so I would say that the modern civilsed western world is well within its right to question islam

Not having read the book, I have to take it for face value that Doomic's assertation that the Quran doesn't contain that kind of punishment for that "crime".

But it does make me wonder why some "followers" of Islam would interpret it in that way, and dispense their own brand of justice for such percieved crimes.

One hears that Islam is a peaceful religion, but the image of muslims in the media is usually of those chanting death to America, treating women/females in a way that is less than equitable, and of suicide bombers. Also, these Radical Clerics in European / American mosques spewing hate for all things western comes to mind.

I think Islam needs to launch a Public Relations campaign, showing the "good" that followers of Islam are capable of, starting with correcting these negative perceptions by living in and contributing to our society in a positive, civilized, enlightened way.

So this is all the wisdom and truth the loving and merciful allah is telling you? The best you can do?


Nobody here judges islam through a single incident. This thread started before the Toronto tragedy and not because another single incident.

How many more would you like to hear about? I'm not allah so I can't see the future, but look around some news channels and websites tomorrow. And after tomorrow. And on Sunday. There will be a murder or ten comitted in the name of allah. But of course you will come back and write that these were single incidents (all of them) and the perpetrators were not "true" muslims. Those lines are already well worn out.

As I said before, quit judging people for what they see. Attack those responsible for what we see.


Aren't they? :)

I fthis is the punishment then the way out of this is quite easy don't cheat on ur partner and marry the one who appeals to u .This is justice...."would u rather b cheated on? I 'm sure girlfriends and boyfriends who get dumped without no rights at all despite all the love and support they've shown would agree.

Thx SHawn for being unbiased.sure there r deviant groups .I'm sorry to confess that we muslims r not doing our job.corrupt governments and rulers r part of the problem.but Plz don't ask CNN about Islam.No one can deny that zionists r in command when it comes to media .This is y I'm glad to spend some time here..to show Islam's version...

NO, This is Islam. You've just acknowledged the fact and we are right, and that you'd rather murder someone If cheated on then move on like any normal person ...enough said.

Bwuhahah Cheers for the laugh Doomic, um interesting! :)

Actually civilised people move on with their lives and let our judicial system sort out the finer points, like division of property and child maintenance...


spoken like a true muslim, I bet you hate them and feel that they should all go to hell because they are jewish....lol, sooner or later you all show your true colours.

As for how muslim women feel, let go and visit a battered wives home and see a muslim woman who has had acid thrown in her face by her god fearing islamic loving husband.

and the reason why people dont talk to muslim women is because they are not allowed to mix....but I suppose in this case they were allowed to speak to people!

Don't taKe words out of their context....scissor boy...laugh as much as u can
and Shelleys...yeah quite sure that civilized ppl don't commit crimes and spend their lives and waste their children's lives in court..I said zionists..and don't put words into my mouth .

Has mary whitehouse change her sex and colour?

Hang on a minute -- doesn't Allah decide what is just, not you? Suppose Allah were to declare (as the All-Just One) that murder is good. Would you accept that? Would you then believe that murder is good?

Shelly , What if i tell u these rules also apply in islam, so after all there is some common ground we can start the discussion from.

About killing ur patner, Well the prophet said killing a muslim is diselief (i.e getting out of the fold of islam) .
As regarding non muslims its in the quran :

Allâh does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allâh loves those who deal with equity.

Say (O Muhammad ) to the believers to forgive those who (harm them and) hope not for the Days of Allâh (i.e. His Recompense), that He may recompense people according to what they have earned (i.e. to punish these disbelievers, who harm the believers).

If the Muslims should kill non muslims then there would not have been any non muslim living peacfully in islamic countries.

Cubic , The lord is all merciful, how would he tell us to kill each other ??

Listen to this

And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (Allâh) said: "I know that which you do not know."

In the story of the two sons of Adam [Hâbil (Abel) and Qâbil (Cain)]

Because of that We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone killed a person not in retaliation of murder, or (and) to spread mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all mankind, and if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all mankind. And indeed, there came to them Our Messengers with clear proofs, evidences, and signs, even then after that many of them continued to exceed the limits (e.g. by doing oppression unjustly and exceeding beyond the limits set by Allâh by committing the major sins) in the land!.

I think non-muslim women also could ba asked how they feel.:

Muslim leader blames women for sex attacks

[...]
In the religious address on adultery to about 500 worshippers in Sydney last month, Sheik Hilali said: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it ... whose fault is it, the cats or the uncovered meat? [...]

So there seem to be two categories of mea.. I mean women, in Islam: covered and uncovered.

full article:
theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20646437-601,00.html

I absolutely agree. You should seek the truth wherever it takes you, even if you conclude that maybe the Koran isn't the literal word of Allah.


There are many kinds of arrogance in the world.


Is that why bellzii didn't cite any "scientific facts that have been proved" ?


I'm with Sir Salman Rushdie on this one: you should have respect for people, but you need have no respect for people's opinions. See his excellent essay, Defend the right to be offended.

opendemocracy.net/faith-europe_islam/article_2331.jsp

I have always had a problem with this statement since I was a little kid. No matter muslim, christian or otherwise.

Merciful for what reason? For his own fvck up when he created man? Just think about it. Create a few little fellas out of polaydoo and be merciful to them, detroy them, or reward them. Even if god exists, he's either childish egomaniac, or just a sicko.

Of course, there is that "grand plan": that we, as humans, are supposedly not equipped to understand. We just have to believe and follow the "word". I wonder how many muslims would send me cash if I offered Brooklyn Bridge for sale. It is a good deal, only $10,000. Believe me! I can produce a witness or two to testify to the truth of my words (he gets a cut though) And unlike muslims in regards to allah, I'll even include a nice photo of the merchandise.

Oh, and I'm sure there are plenty of virgins on that bridge too, but the actual number will depend on the time of the day, traffic and such :)

I recall that incident. Ophelia Benson nailed it, as usual: Meat.
butterfliesandwheels.com/notesarchive.php?id=1634

It's worth emphasising that Sheik Hilali is no obscure figure, he was Australia's most senior Muslim cleric, and had just been reconfirmed as Mufti of Australia after the governing body of Sydney's largest mosque rallied around him. He was reputedly so popular that he was never allowed to pay for a meal when eating in Muslim restaurants.

He holds other opinions that are close to mainstream in the Muslim world. He has called the Holocaust a "Zionist lie". He compared another leading Australian Muslim, Dr Ameer Ali, to Salman Rushdie? Ali's crime? He suggested that Mohammed had flaws, and criticised Muslims who blindly follow the faith and failed to question the veracity of the Koran. Was Hilaly subtly suggesting that Ali deserves to be murdered? Sadly, the "religion of peace" is so widely misunderstood that Hilaly remains popular to this day. (Though the outcry surrounding his "meat" remarks did eventually lead to him being sacked as Mufti of Australia.)

Our only sources are the quran and the authenticated way of the prophet, not what senior muslim whatever, if he follows these 2 sources then we take his words otherwise his words are useless. Its not like the church said or the pope said, its what jesus peace be upon him has done and whats in the gospel.

So if Quran said women are meat the you would gladly accept it?

Oh, and I wonder, what sources did the as.shole in Australia used.

But there's the rub... It would seem that there are some cleric's out there that would prefer to stray from what the Quran says, by putting their own twists on the words. For what reason?

too many"If"s Darius...deal with what's already there


We can do that .Give me some time to find some good stuff on th web


Have u never heard of the word "seduce"??


Who said we have to stick to this? and this is turning too much into philosophy .b straight forward plz

Yawn...

It's quite straightforward, surely? I respect you, as a human being. If you tell me you believe that the Koran was dictated to Muhammed by the angel Gabriel, I don't respect that opinion. And what's wrong with philosophy?


You don't; I'm just explaining my approach. But don't expect automatic respect for your opinions, religious or otherwise.

The Dude thinks this is horrible.

Dude saw a few videos that all contained girls under 18 being stoned to death...well, more like a cinder block to the head for having sex prior to marriage. People were kicking her throughout this stoning and it was so barbaric and disgusting. Who practices these things outside of the middle east? Dude's never been so disgusted at mankind for allowing this.

This and beheadings are all performed by animals that don't deserve to be breathing. How can people accept this?

Dude is truly disgusted and would feel horrible if this happened to anyone forced or talked into a religion like this.

I see one "if".
How many did you count? Is your perception of islam as sound as your arithmetic?


Won't muslims ever take responsibility for their own actions? Would you also enter people's houses and rob them if the door was not locked? Would you shoplift beacuse the store didn't have secdurity cameras or guards?

Does allah suggest women who are preceived as seducers could or should be raped? How do you measure seduction as the basis for rape? What makes you horny may be not enough or me and vice versa. What you consider unmodest may be modest by the standards of the majority of the human kind.

As I said before, islam was good for the 7th century desert nomad. Times have changed.

This is quite funny...watch ur posts..u r always supposing what's not there.


Again ur magic scissors...:) don't cut and paste we were discussing what that leader meant and i was explaining y women should be accountable for their own deeds and it's not muslims who raped those women ...check ur records...what those men did is a crimein Islam but we got means to prevent this from taking place and protecting our moms and sisters.If u r addicted to alcohol a bar is not the right place to figure out a solution 2 ur problem.don't show it all day in movies and ask boys not to do it:(

If you had something that is so precious as a diamond , or something that is so expensive and so dear to you. Where will u keep it? in ur hands all day, showing it to people or make it noticeable and attract attention with it. Of course not.

Well we think women are much more precious than diamonds and thats why they wear thier hijab to be modest, chaste and above all, not for everyone to have a peice of.

If some minority muslims that YOU DIG INTO THE INTERNET TO GET their story of treating their women badly, they are true muslims as the prophet said [the best of you is the best to his family] , they would surely relish the treasure they have.

This is a poor analogy because women are not inanimate objects. They are not possessions of men. They have a mind of their own.


If women are so precious, why don't they have complete freedom, while men (as potential violators) are restricted in their movements? That seems to make about as much sense as your argument. (That is: not much.)

maybe they wear that because the men are insecure?
why else make them be covered from head to toe (unless they are butt ugly)

I prefer to enjoy the treasures in open view.

1)'cause you don't have your own?
2) you have your own but love's gone and you envy what others have?
3) just feel that your not the monogamy type and it brings some more pleasure in life? So why not use a chance?
4) 'cause think it's normal and all real men have to show "what they have ' to be proud of?

Am I right?:)


To stop possible violence and to keep the family - not saying about many other reasons, which are way more important.

if your wife really loves you, married you of her own free will, not some arranged marriage what are you worried about?
why would there be violence?