Feminism effects both sexes in a different way - opinions?

Syrena,
due to a lot of interest on that particular subject (thanks Matyjasz), I decided to created a tread.
I have been interested in that subject for years.
It's hard not to if you are a woman. Feminism effects both sexes in a different way.

I would like to get some feedback on that from other members of the forum

This is a follow-up to a conversation started in the 'Miranda' thread, in Introductions. Please refer to it for additional context.

What bothers me is that children, mostly girls, along with young boys, are used as sex toys for sex tourists.

What also bothers me is that some women are taught to believe that they have no value unless they belong to a man. And even then.

That some women are still used as chattel.

That some women are also taught to believe that what they think, need and believe is of no importance. That in some cases, being a woman does not mean anything at all.

And that that teaching is done, often, by women themselves.

I'm not trying to complain about my own personal situation, but I am indignant about human rights abuse of all kinds.

And another thing:

Up until recently, most medical research has used men only in study groups. Women's physiology was assumed to be the same and to react in the same fashion. What a surprise (!) that recently, heart attack symptoms were understood to be different in men and in women.

And I resent being taught that men are weak, that allowances have to be made for their lack of this or of that. That a woman has to tend to such fragile egos and make up the difference. This is an insult to both sexes.

And I pity the priest of any denomination who will attempt to give permission to a man, on my behalf, to kiss me. The 'You may kiss the bride' will only be said by me !

It does not mean that a woman won't cook, clean, do laundry. It just means that she's not an empty shell.

I've got to stop now. This is getting to me.

I think feminism is a positive thing if not taken too far, there are certain jobs that are not suitable for a women - heavy lifting manual jobs.

Also think a woman can be femanine whilst being a feminist, I personally think the whole "burning the bra" thing is what got being a feminist a bad name. In the UK we have had a women PM and have quite a few women MP's, however there will always be a divide between women and men, in some golf clubs in the UK women dont have the same voting rights, they were until recently not allowed in certain areas of the Royal Legion, so equal rights are still not across the board in the UK.

If being a feminist means if a women believes if she works as hard as a man then she should have the same opportunities as a man, then yes I would say I am a feminist.

that's only a part of it - women still make much less worldwide

This is a can of worms topic............!!

Men/women have different "value" systems....do the females on the board feel that their worth is now to be measured solely by a male originated system....ie money?

Or that by working hard, you can earn more or get ahead the in the same way?

What posters mean that they want to be treated in the same way in the work place.........

Thats fine...but what about in life in general?

I have always remarked to female colleagues that their REAL work only begins when they get home, ie that they have a family that need nurtured, raised, loved, protected, spoilt if need be......

Anyone can earn money, but only mothers can do the really difficult bit.........ask any Polish mother, who are held in such high esteem in their culture.

Each sex has different strengths and weaknesses, nature intended this way, why should we try to second guess mother nature???!!

I just moved my pc down to the bomb shelter! :) Still feeling nervous...

a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle etc...goodnight :)

I know....and I've put on my adult sized diaper....:)

But some of the more recent bicycles are quite accommodating...:)

SELLING.. Camoflage gear, and fallout shelters cheap, plus bomb shelters and protective armour.

Apply wolfie..

men are good fathers too - my father was:)

Yes...Miranda.....men can be good parents...............but was making a clear distinction between their roles/abilities in this area.

oops - I was referring to motherhood:)

...not so sure......its a genetic insitinctive thing........

Frank, you raised a number of good points:


I'm not sure what you mean by different values for men and for women. Could you expand on this please? For me, the issue is access to the market economy, if it is desired, and to the financial resources that will facilitate self-determination and even more importantly basic survival in some cases. Money does not equal self-worth. It might equal power and influence in the eyes of others, but not self-worth.


Again, I'd like to clarify. Are you saying that motherhood is a genetic instinctive behaviour? I would agree that, physiologically, women are better equipped to help with the survival of the offsprings. In many women, there is also a 'mothering' behaviour that translates into nurturing, loving and protecting but I would disagree that this behaviour is universally present in women. Which portion of it is genetically-derived or learned is difficult to determine. But it is not, in my view, a universal genetic instinctive behaviour trait.

I am not saying that male originated systems are to be rejected. What discourages me is that so many people, men and women, have tried so hard for so long to make this world a better place over the years, and it seems as if hardly a dent has been made.

can you prove it?
all thise roles are developed through socializing, not genetics

I'm feminist .... like i will fight for women's rights if a guys comes up to me and says i have a nice ass i tell him off and stuff... i'm so feminist...

:)ha:)ha:)ha:)ha:)ha:)

Thats 3 for 3 all ready to jump in their fox holes. lol


ones which we are taught.


Agree - but some women do take these jobs to prove their worth against men.

Not for me.


In general as in ? What about all those men who are supposed to be the provider
of a family and leave this so called family to go on to better things, leaving the
woman to fend with her children for herself? she is now the mother and father both
to the children, she has to provide food, make this food, work her butt off to keep
her head above water, with no support from the "male" gender.

Why do you think women did this? not just for the right to vote, the workload alone
on women is much heavier then any man, her work continues day and night.
especially those who are single mothers.

Me ,my husband and his friend got into this discussion so many times, it ended up
the same every time, they are taught to respect women and say that a womans place
is in the home, but bringing up the subject again, when the man leaves, who is the
Man of the house?

The Woman!

quote=Patrycja19, Post #20 ]to respect women and say that a womans place
is in the home,[/quote]

course when they bring up the respect part, then say that, it becomes heated.

they both get out their steel lined hats! lol

I disagree, Frank had some interesting points and was not afraid to voice them. I would like to hear teh opinion of anybody here:)


Could you be more specific Frank? I am really interested what you mean by that.


I am sorry Syrena that I have started the tread first - Matyjasz seem to be very excited about contributing and I allowed myself to create it, hoping to hear his opinion.


I don't agree with that - I think that we are able to discuss anything on this forum, since most people here have a lot to say on other subjects. Why not on feminism? As I mentioned before, feminism effects the male-female realtionships in personal, as well as in public life.

I think that an honest exchange of opinions could help both sexes to understand each other better.
So please -think about it:)

"I'm feminist .... like i will fight for women's rights if a guys comes up to me and says i have a nice ass i tell him off and stuff... i'm so feminist..."

I would tell him - Your ass is not bad too...Can you show me more?

I am a feminist activist . I love men- intelligent,sensitive and non-chauvinists guys.
Age, race and material status do not matter :)

These are areas that sometimes define maleness...the pack/harem effect...who a man can persuade to be part of his group........alpha male.....most listened too, sought after. other males ergo females acknowledge as being the ONE!

Well...its a can of worms in the sense that people will disagree just because they can!!

Mainly because here are all sorts of conflicting theories out there as to whether its nuture or nature determines how a person "turns out"......either a criminal or psychopath or responsible,mature doing the right thing.

There are recognisable differences, some one mentioned physical strength etc - there is mental toughness, resilience...a lot of generalisations too as regards those areas.

So its ok to congratulate a person on their intelligence but not their physical attributes?

Simply put where did the intelligence come from...the drive...the ability...pretty much from genetic inheritance.........mixed in with application and hard work...again......perhaps built in?

The compliment depends on the circumstances..who pays it and when...and was he a guy/girl that you fancy in the first place?!

More thoughts......?

Remember....there is only one thing in life worse than being looked over.......................................and that is being overlooked!

it doesn't apply to every man? also, I know there are single dads too. but I do agree it happens to women more often.


alright, you deserve a medal for that. :) I don't have kids, but I work 13 hours a day, have only one 10 minute break - do smuggle sometimes! - and still I can barely pay my rent. I do everything alone. and I'm not talking office jobs, really have to do heavy construction work, and there are days I get home and I can just barely get my shirt off.

but I'm a loyal guy, but losers don't really count do they? my point? I guess I'm as disappointed as you are. :) but that's not really a reason to generalise men or women is it?

anyway, I took feminism to a new level, I don't care if my future wife makes more money than I do, or if she's smarter. just don't expect me to wear a pink sweater and act like a metrosexual guy from one of those magazines. :)

just saying, let a man be a man, - yeah I'm a bit of a macho sometimes, but I don't really bite! - and a woman be a woman. - and in that context I mean a woman should be able to be whatever she wants to be.

that's my vieuw on it. I don't see much of a problem with women wanting a career, just think they overdo it sometimes when they list all of the expectations they seem to have of a man.

I think it's priceless Arien:)

when I say all those men, I am talking about the ones who have these values of
being the providers, telling the woman you stay home, I will make the money in
this house then up and leave emm stranded. Yes there are good men out there.
few and far between.

and women do leave their children too, so I do stand corrected on that.
Men can be good fathers, Women good mothers.

its the comments like, you belong in the kitchen, or go get me a beer, or
are my clothes washed yet?

that is treating a woman like she is more a servant then a partener.
if she was treated equal, there would be no need for women to fight back.

we do these things out of love, commitment.
far as I am concerned, if a man expects that from a woman, then he isnt
committed.

share the burdens. thats all some ask for. we work hard too.

:) I wasnt going to post on this topic, so now I said it. dont mean to offend
just views.

Easy does it Frank...........

Ok here is the Wolfie version....

We all live in the 21 Century and not back in the 1040's, i feel since the Emily Pankhurst thing on the racecoarse where she threw herself in front of a horse which killed her, just to make a bid for womens lib, well women today are as good as men. They can hold high class jobs and get more respect than any man, and ive had the privilage of working with women.Men and woman today are equals in the house and outside as well, women are more better at coping with stress then most men.

You find today a woman can earn more money in a job than her partner, and leave the husband to pick the kids up and do housework. Its a case of share and share alike and split 50/50 straight down the middle.

Women today are alot stronger then what they were, they can take control of situations better, and can juggle there lives around, very much like busy bees.

That all im sayin..Wolfie

Wolfie...have you been neutered...or are you a wannabee neutee?

Ok hang me at noon from a tree, i cant win

Are you wearing a blouse tonite Wolfie.....?

LOL....

Why Frank - you took yours off ????????????????

I thought it was your turn with the communal blouse tonight mate? It's mine every other wednesday. :)

Hey...hey M...this is a man to man thingy.....or is it man to wolfie...........none of my blouses fit me anymore...passed them onto wolfie.....lol