How do you Poles feel about the fact that so many Poles work abroad?

- In other words: it's those damn foreigners (the Poles perhaps?) who are guilty that Britain's educational standards have dropped down? Is that what you mean, VanFuk?

:)


- Rude insults from a primitive, cowardly, xenophobic and megalomaniac wimp who can't even write correctly in his native tongue. What educational standards was he raised on?

:)

No. It's the ones who are coming en masse solely as students (mostly from places like southeast Asia). It brings money into the universities, but how suited they are to being accomodated in the British education system is debatable. A few Polish students is not the same subject.

Educational standards dropping - if this is the case, there are too many factors at play here, ranging from shift in mass culture towards a kind of dumbed-down "stupid is good" attitude, less parents either willing or able to instil a sense of enthusiasm in learning within their children, to a world that moves faster and leaves behind some of the old stuff we used to be taught, and neglects the things that are actually happening in the world around us. Add to that things like too many exams, not enough learning, too many targets and too many tight budgets.

No Puzzy. You are succumbing to the Polish steroetypical belief that the world blames Poland for all wrong doings.

The drop of British educational standards can only be blamed on the British government.

The substandard students now studying at a tertiary level in British universities are by in large British fukwits who should never have been allowed anywhere near a third level educational institue. It has nothing to do with Poland or the Polish

Correct,but,seriously,tell someone who has found their wages frozen for the past 5 years or who cannot get a job because there is now a steady supply of dirt cheap labour coming into the area that there is a difference between legal and ilegal....


let me clarify,I didnt mean to imply "abusing" health care( as a liberal/leftie/big ole softie I say free health care for all) I just mean all these services that are set up as saftey nets payed by a lifetime of taxes are open to people whether they have 15 generations of history in this country or are working for the summer on a spud farm . Tends to rankle some people when the health service is at the point of collapse and old folks who have paid since 1947 are finding no beds in the local hospital.


Yes,but,frankly,totaly meaningless in this context. I for one certainly never colonised anywhere,my family never benifited from any colony(unless you go back to the 1750s and lets not open that can o worms ;) ),certainly the factory workers that were forced out to make way for those willing to work for minimum wage didnt gain from an empire that has been dead for 70 odd years.


hey,its my fookin language,i'll use it how i frikkin want,n 'kay :)


And here is the nub; Of course there is nothing wrong with this,but,should it be to the detriment of the local,indigenous population? What really grabs my clunker is everyone has sympathy for those "poor downtrodden Poles with few job prospects or low wages" while at the same time quite happily saying a big F88K you to all the poor people of the UK who havnt got the option of going off to some euro cash cow (being as the uk IS the euro cash cow..)to make a better living and maybe come back and buy a house.Im no econamist but it seems perfectly obvious to me that this whole freedom to work anywhere has been totaly one sided. Sure,there are plenty of Britons working in Poland,but not over one million of them,and to be honest,the Brits that do move to Poland are not competing with the hardest done by Poles for jobs are they,they are moving into proffesions.

- Do you mean the Poles believe the world blames Poland for all wrongdoings? Can you prove the Poles think so?

By the way, VanFuk, your spelling is really bad at times. It's the British government who should be blamed for this, of course?
:)

why the smile at the end? I think your a complete arse,mentaly unstable to boot,dont bother trying to lighten the tone.

- It's not the Poles, not even mostly the Poles, who toil in your beloved land. You've got folks from all over the world, mostly from the Third World. And yet you're picking on the Poles only. See what xenophobic and racist dirt you are? See how the media psychopaths have easily put $hit into your conk? Could the British economy survive without the guest workers' labour? I wonder.

wtf? how stereotypical is that very statement?

- And still more empty insults from a stupid coward?
:)

15 thousand Poles in my town mate,and about 2 thousand asians,who,incidently have lived here for generations and plan to stay here for future generations...anyway,whats with all the hate for non whites puzzy? Your the definition of hypocrite,screeming "rascism rascism" then dishing it out like some bovver boot wearing skin head....


Bollox,Im talking about the Poles because this is Polish forums not indian sub continent forums you muppet.


Thing is mate,your the one brought up in a represive propaganda infested sociaty,I was brought up to think for myself....

Aha. When you understand better the subtle nuances of that very statement you will perhaps appreciate the irony of it

Hi,

I totally see your point on the senior citizens argument. It's like this in many countries and it is undeniably unfair. But how do you think the government should solve this situation?

Nobody should "feel bad" for the Poles. Such sentiments are uncalled for. In fact, they don't mean a thing. I don't feel bad for the Poles and I am one. I think that the economy is a mess and everything that goes with it, too. But I don't feel "bad". I approach this matter with a clear mind, logic and reason. I FEEL BAD for the people from 3rd world countries. I'm lucky not to be in their shoes.

I am a little unclear on your point about legals vs. illegals in the States. I certainly don't compete with them when it comes to jobs. And vice versa, they don't compete with me, either. Like I want to make minimum wages and cut the lawns, wash cars or clean houses or work at some dirty warehouse or whatever. I would take a job like that if the circumstances forced me to. They have no choice, I do. They will take literally any job that will allow them to support their families and live somewhat decently. I actually give them a lot of credit for doing that.

As far as education, I don't know about the United Kingdom, but I know about Poland and the US. And in the USA the government has financial aid programs for everybody, illegal aliens included. I think it is unfair, well, they are illegal, but at the same time I don't think anybody should be denied the access to obtain education. And that's a dilemma.

I will skip responding to your comment about your language. Freedom of speech. LOL

lol,origionaly I had a pithy response highlighting the 1st amendmant and all that,then thought,nah,stuff it,go with the flow :)


What Im saying is,plenty of "native" people in the UK have to do these jobs for one reason or another,they had no choice but to do these jobs as for one reason or another they couldnt improve their lot ( or these are the predominent jobs in certain areas). So,to then find that even these low status jobs were being lost to people from another country who didnt have mortgages to pay /families to take care of it left a bitter taste. It is a plain fact that Poles and others from the poorer EU states were being hired over locals,not down to any work ethic but purely down to the fact that immigrents seldom complain about wages or conditions,ie,are willing to be paid peanuts ,which is fine if your some student over here for the summer looking for some pocket money,but,when overall wages in an area have been forced down by this,the population who doesnt have another country to go home to is left with what exactly?

Hello again,

That's a good question. I don't really know. Maybe they can come to the US? Just kidding :)

I'm sure you know far more about your country then I do, but I've been reading about unemployment benefits and some social benefits per kid in a family and my impression was that some people do not seem to mind accepting them for whatever reason, convenience maybe? And I'm not talking a few months, I'm talking a long time. I've seen it happen in the States, too. Especially amongst minorities, you know, welfare checks.

So, you're saying locals can't obtain work at all? Or in some sectors only? Big cities or in suburban areas?

I completely see your point on many aspects of immigration. But you have to admit that there has been almost a campaign targeting the Polish. It's like there is a campaign against Mexicans in the USA. The issues are a little different, but there is a resemblance in the approach to that.

We all agreed to be a part of the EU, for better or for worse. LOL Now we have to bear the consequences of this union, contractually I mean. The problems will always be there. It's a complex matter.

G.

- Did you count all those Poles yourself, or psychopaths from Daily Mail did it for you? Or did you make up the number? How about the number of Third World people in the whole of Britain? These are unaccountable millions, aren't they? But it's all right with you when those millions are there, whereas a relatively small number of Poles - and just Poles, and not immigrants at that, but tremporary workers - is a big problem for you, eh?


- Oh yes, of all the foreigners working in UK, you're picking on the Poles, lying hypocritical Polonophobic wimp. There are, for example,incomparably more Indians and Pakistanis in UK and theoretically you should slam them for taking British jobs too, but you don't - you've been slamming the Poles only.


- Ah, so Asians (and Africans, etc.) staying for good in UK are okay with the racist wimp, they don't take British jobs, only the Polish temporary workers are those who take British jobs and are generally undesirable, eh? Here isthatu's racism comes to the fore fully. In order to turn attention from it he calls me a racist and even a skinhead. It's called projection in psychology, isn't it?


- Even if I were brought up in such a society, what about it? The intellectual difference between you and me is clear. And your susceptibilty to brainwashing is incomparably bigger than mine.


- Where did Gaby get the news that the Polish economy is 'mess'? Actually, Polish economy is getting better and better. Oh, so Gaby doesn't feel bad for the Poles only for the Third World people? And he says he's Polish? I wonder.

Gaby and isthatu - two Polonophobes cacling amicably.
:)
Isn't isthatu himself of Third World origin? Isn't he by slamming the Poles and defending the Asiatics and others of this ilk trying to save his own miserable a$$? What a slavish lowlife with a wretchedly low self-esteem. :)

DUUUUHHHH, DUUUHHHHHH . I am sic of hearing this pathetic excuse for an argument. 1. the vast majority of asians in britain were BORN HERE.


have you eve heard of census forms.


go clean the toilet like all your other countrymen

It didn't start off that way though. Somewhere along the line, in the 20th century at some point, their families moved here from wherever they came from in Asia. In the next 100 years your great-great grandkid will be on here saying "The vast majority of Poles were born here!", because, of course, the Poles who are settling here now will be their great-great-great (roughly) grandparents.

BTW, the toilet thing, it's grown old.

Will you stop going on about these people you describe as "Third World". If they live in Britain, they are not third world people. From where I'm sitting, there is no difference between using derogatory language against Polish, Asian, African, Caribbean people or just British people who may have some or all of their heritage from some other part of the world.

Puzzy,

It's Gab, not Gaby. And Gab is a "she", not a "he".

Now, let's clarify another thing: Polish economy is getting better, but it is still a mess. If somebody refuses to see it, it's a whole different issue. I'm not going to embellish Poland's economical situations. I'm talking details, my friend. It's actually funny you should say Polish economy is so great. Last time I checked, it wasn't.

No, I don't feel bad for the Poles. I might feel angry, but I don't feel bad. Things upset me, that's all. Do you think sentiments are going to change anything? Hell no. I changed my attitude and became proactive. And I suggest that other people do the same. If they continue to feel bad for themselves, if they wait for the government to do something for them, oh well, I wish them luck. But it won't get them anywhere. That's actually my advice.

And one last thing. I love Poland and I love my family. Poland will always be my home. No matter how screwed up things might be over there. I wish I didn't have to leave. I am proud of my heritage, so please don't try to call me a sellout or whatever it is that you called me. And I respect people's decisions. Some decided to stay, some decided to leave. I know both sides of the story, my friend. I' living it every day of my life! Being a Pole I have all the rights to point things out about my own country, whether they are good or bad. And I'm not afraid to do so. Neither am I ashamed.

How do British people feel about other British people moving to countries like Canada or Australia for better work opportunities? When my brother was studying, I got to know a few of his mates. Two of them moved to Canada, one to Australia, another to the US, and even one to China, taking their skills and spending power elsewhere. My brother even went to Ireland for a while for a better job. Good luck to them.

Exactly Osioł, it's central to the discussion. Countless numbers of Brits have emigrated in search of a better life, away from the drudgery of Blighty. They have found it in Australia, Canada etc as u say.

1. a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.
2. a population so related.
3. Anthropology.
a. any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by supposedly distinctive and universal physical characteristics: no longer in technical use.

b. an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, esp. formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.

c. a human population partially isolated reproductively from other populations, whose members share a greater degree of physical and genetic similarity with one another than with other humans.

4. a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic stock: the Slavic race.
5. any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: the Dutch race.
6. the human race or family; humankind: Nuclear weapons pose a threat to the race.
7. Zoology. a variety; subspecies.
8. a natural kind of living creature: the race of fishes.
9. any group, class, or kind, esp. of persons: Journalists are an interesting race.
10. the characteristic taste or flavor of wine.
-adjective
11. of or pertaining to the races of humankind.

RACE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN NATIONALITY U GOD DAMN UNEDUCATED MORON! MY MOTHER'S RACE IS ASIAN! HER NATIONALITY IS AMERICAN! A white pole and a white german would both be from the Caucasian race. However the German's nationality would be German and the Poles nationality would be polish!


POLANDS ECONOMY IS WORSE THAN THAT OF THE STATE I LIVE IN! THEY ARE 2ND WORLD STATUS!

cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/pl.html

Religious government u say? Did u not read the post where the Roman catholic church argued against the laws in place and gained ground? This is absolutely unacceptable!!! Churches have no say in government affairs!(WELL I GUESS IN POOLAND THEY DO!!)

https://polishforums.com/archives/2005-2009/news/year-old-rape-victim-warsaw-denied-23909/

Your words,not mine buddy. To enlighten you as to my view,Im happy for anyone to come here to make a life for themselves,whether they decide to stay for life is irelevent .As it happens,most Asians or Afro Caribabeans that came here at the end of(or in a lot of cases ,during) the 2nd world war and over the next few years were,believe it or not,coming to a land they considered "the motherland" (yep,the old Empire might have had its share of injustices but,overall ,with the exception of Zimbabwe,all our former dominions and teritories still have very close and friendly ties with the UK,ie,The Commenwealth.). Their homelands may have been thousands of miles away but in most eyes,and you can talk to old folks about this,but they considered Britain their new home. They came over a number of years,in very small numbers at first and tended to head for a few of the biggest cities where there were 5 jobs for every worker . Over the years these people had families,leading to another posters claim that most of the ethnic minorities in Britain today were born here being correct.

On the other hand,compare a trickle of,at first hundreds then no more than a few thousand immigrants,over a period of about 25 years,in a period of genuine full employment and to begin with only living where jobs were plentifull. Then look at,over a million and a half people,coming from somewhere with no real ties to the UK,with no interest on the whole of becoming British and moving no only to the big cities in huge numbers,but also moving in large numbers to relitivly small towns all over the UK........

actually,puzzy,Im bored of you now.....


Hi again Gab, yep,some people can go to the US,or Canada or anywhere else to seak "better oppertunities" ,but,on the whole these are not the people affected by mass immigration,ie,these are well qualified people (or these countries wouldnt let em in :) ) that are moving abroad,its the ones who,maybe through lack of qualifications/oppertunities dont have the option to just up sticks.


Its not as clear cut as that im afraid Gab,undoubtedly there are areas of the UK where many locals are struggling to find work due to employment agencies having a strangle hold on many sectors ,and many of these are going for the cheap opption of hiring people for wages that locals can barely live on. In many areas wages have gone down a silly amount ,as a student in the 90s I worked in a warehouse,I earned about £9.00 per hour,those same jobs are now paying about £6.00 per hour.Fine if your over here staying in a shared bedsit and happy to eat bake beans every day(ie students,under 25s ;) ) but if this is your livelyhood,with a familiy to bring up and a house to pay for this is a misery.

The biggest areas for these problems Gab,to answer the second part of your Q' is,IMO, the more "suburban" areas,or small towns,rural areas.

Small towns,where suddenly there is a very visable influx of thousands of new comers in areas where,in many cases ,economicaly speaking,things had only just started to recover after the decimation of the 1980s are finding it hard to cope,where previously there was a trickle of new comers there was for a while a flood,this impacted highly on many local facilities such as schools and hospitals as well as housing which were all in a streched position prior to 04.

Rural areas,well,thats a double edge sword,farmers /landowners are happy ,they have a full supply of manual labour during the summer( yep,many locals dont like this work,but they would take it,there just wernt enough locals for the farmers to expand buisness.) . Trouble is,many thousnads are now staying full time in those rural areas,the few "winter" jobs available just dont strech roun this vastly expanded population.Yet again,many of those winter jobs the local labourers used to take were,you guessed it,semi skilled warehouse type work !!Guess what,wages down,percieved cheap labour favoured over pesky locals,yet again..


Yep,I agree,in certain sectors there can,at times,appear to have been a "campaign" against the Polish,but,this is confined to right wing tabliods,and,if you read those front to back you will realise tht,frankly,the Poles are not the only people regularly attacked by these nasty little rags.

What I will say though is,on the whole,people are not talking about any " Polish situation" they have read about in a distant city,but directly about their local area and how they personally may have been affected. The thing to remember though, these attitudes dont come down to the fact that "you" are Polish,there had been bubbling discontent regarding succesive governments immigration policies for years prior to 2004,if you like,the million and a half people who came here could have been from any other country,they would still have been seen by some as the Straws that broke the camals back.


Im a big supporter of close ties in Europe,Europes had enough wars and death over the last few hundred years ,anything that helps do away with the madness is fine by me. But,the EU is going to be a rocky road,mistakes were made and ,as usual,it was the people at the bottom of lifes heap who got dumped on.


Good on em.


Nice one,sounds like my address book too :)


AAhh,bu**er,there where it all goes pear shape....SKILLS, not everyone is lucky enough(or indead,skilled enough) to have skills,a trade,or qualifications(or confidence) that are a ticket to a work permit in any of these countries...woops,they are the people mostly affected by the recent mass immigration, " whats that,

did I hear someone calling Major Major and captain Yossarrian?"

nice one.. catch as catch can.

Isthatu,

Thank you for such an elaborate answer :) Like you said, it all comes down to one thing: regular people face the repercussions of this. How can we find a happy medium? Can we?

I knew we would be friends again :) LOL

I will be gone for a little over than a month, but when I get back, I'll catch up on things here.

So long :)

i doubt it. I am half Irish half Polish. I've worked abroad for years when Ireland was on it's knees economically. If your subtle nuances are meant to highlight your personal omniscient panoramic insight well kindly enlighten me as to what is beyond my wherewithal to grasp vis a vis said subtle nuances. You can rest assured this will be a positive step forward for you because logically, if there is indeed hidden depth and layers to your abraisive parole and it it's gist is beyond my English speaking remit, what hope if any you will speak to those who may read your posts literally?

Well that's a mix to be proud of for sure begorrah begorrah

Unfortunately, the money they paid in 1947 were spent a long, long time ago and now their health care is financed inter alia by those bloody immigrants.

Besides, isn't the british health service at the point of collapese since erm... always? :)

- Ah, so this racist psychopathic Polonophobic creep is an Asian himself?


- What sort of associations can you expect from one whose mother is a $hit worm?
:)


- What do you mean by 'going on'? And no, I won't stop talking about those folks, because, at least in my experience, scores of them here, in Europe, have been aggressive and hostile towards us Poles. Also my own worst experience in Britain, regarding Polonophobia, was not with a true-blue local, but an immigrant from a most respectable place - Bangla Desh. I have also seen - and recorded - tons of examples of other Third World folks being racist towards the Poles.


- Facts show that in numerous cases the mentality remains and is passed on the progeny. I'd like to make something clear: in my view, Europe, including Britain, is a political and cultural mess due to the huge numbers of non-Europeans. Therefore their immigration should be completely stopped, at least for the time being, and Europe should be put in order, by carrying out and completing properly the process of unification; the essental part of this unification is the absorption of the former Soviet-block countries, including Poland, and not millions of newcomers from the Third World, masses of whom don't want to assimilate, demand privileges over the local population, special religious etc. 'rights,' and so on. Fortunately, the EU authorities seem to share my view. Otherwise, I don't want Poland to be in a EU where Poles are second-or even third-class citizens in relation to non-European aliens, or to any one for that matter.

You astonish me Osiol; I have thought you a smart guy. Don't you really see why Britain - and the rest of Europe - is in the state of decay?

You can't fight racism with racism.


With the small political influence these so-called "Third World" people have, how can they be responsible for problems in European politics?
Culture is what you do, not something imposed on you by other people. If I want to eat full English fried breakfasts (have of which is made out of pig-derived products), no-one is there to stop me. If I want to eat curry, that's because I happen to like it. If I want to listen to English folk music, no-one is going to stop me. If I want to listen to reggae music, it's not because some Jamaicans have forced me to, it's because I want to listen to it.

Amongst the people I call friends, some are black, some are Asian. As I have said before, I have not heard any hostility towards Polish people from anyone I count as a friend.


But you're not just blaming individuals, you are saying that anyone from not just Bangladesh, but the entire third world and their relatives in the first world are somehow guilty.


... and you were right.


Some aspects of this country are in trouble. Other things seem to be going quite well, thankyou very much. Where things are going wrong, I'm not going to take the easy, cowardly option of blaming it on some ethnic minority.