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Condoms and the Catholic church in Poland


ukpolska  
26 Sep 2007 /  #1
Last night I had a lesson with a group of Matura students and we were discussing illnesses around the world, and the subject focused on Africa and the problem of AIDS there. One student said that maybe if they were allowed to use condoms then this problem would be reduced, another student said that condoms do not stop sexual diseases and was quickly rebuffed and asked them to proof it.

She replied that she had been told that condoms were no use at all by her priest, because sperm and sexual diseases can penetrate through the pours of the condom. Another student said that she had seen a film that was shown to her by her priest that showed sperm and sexual diseases penetrating through the pours of the condom.

Not willing to expand the subject mainly because these were a group of 17 to 18 year old students, I quickly changed the conversation. However, it left me thinking is the Catholic church spreading lies that condoms do not help in the prevention of STD’s and birth control. I know there are religious moral grounds here, but surly spreading lies is against everything the church stands for.

I just wondered if any other Polish people have had the same teachings at school; I asked my wife and she said she remembers when she was at school there was some film promoting the idea that condoms do not work and are useless.

Anyone else had the same experiences?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
26 Sep 2007 /  #2
In Africa they f. each other like rabbits, so nothing would help and condoms don't always protect against HIV.
inkrakow  
26 Sep 2007 /  #3
I think the above is the answer to your question...
OP ukpolska  
26 Sep 2007 /  #4
and condoms don't always protect against HIV

No they don't always protect you from HIV, but that’s not the point; the point is should the Catholic church be saying that they don't do anything to protect you from STD’s? Because if they do this then they committing thousands of people to a death that COULD be prevented.
Oh Its Me :)  
26 Sep 2007 /  #5
In Africa they f. each other like rabbits, so nothing would help and condoms don't always protect against HIV

and the deadliest of all is ignorance!!!! Geez G, you really can be a sillly puppy at times! Let put this another way: "why bother wearing a seat belt in a car, if I get hit I'll probably die anyway"
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
26 Sep 2007 /  #6
the point is should the Catholic church be saying that they don't do anything to protect you from STD’s?

They don't do this.

and the deadliest of all is ignorance!!!!

Show which part of my post is not true or STFU.
Oh Its Me :)  
26 Sep 2007 /  #7
Show which part of my post is not true or STFU

so nothing would help and condoms don't always protect against HIV

Nothing is 100% but if we all took precautions there would be less death and disease! you seem to think no matter what condoms will not help or that is how you came across!!! so why dont you think first or STFU before posting the drivel that you do!
OP ukpolska  
26 Sep 2007 /  #8
They don't do this.

So my wife and my students are lieing???

*quote*
The Church, powerful already in the socialist period, has grown to enormous proportions since 1989. Today, virtually no important government decision is taken without its consent. At the church's demand, religious instruction was introduced into school curricula and it soon became compulsory. Officially, students of other faiths or non-believers, may attend ethics classes, but lack of funding prevents most schools from employing teachers of ethics. The syllabi of other subjects, including history and biology, have also been prepared in consultation with bishops. Sex education was replaced in school curricula by unambiguously catholic ‘education for family life’. Dangerous misinformation, such as the idea that condoms let through the hiv virus, is rife.

concordatwatch.eu/showtopic.php?org_id=931&kb_header_id=1341

You can also check the info from the world health organisation (who)
search.who.int/search?q=Condoms+and+the+Catholic+church+poland&btnG=Se arch&entqr=0&output=xml_no_dtd&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&Search=Search&ie =utf8&client=WHO&ud=1&site=default_collection&oe=utf8&proxystylesheet= WHO
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
26 Sep 2007 /  #9
Dude, get a damn brain. People, who change partners very often won't listen to what church says anyway.

*quote*

F. out with this commie propaganda.
OP ukpolska  
26 Sep 2007 /  #10
F. out with this commie propaganda.

What are refering to Grzegorz? Or is it anything that you cannot understand or disagree with "commie propaganda"?

People, who change partners very often won't listen to what church says anyway.

So it's ok then!!! I am so glad you cleared that up with your logic :O)
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
26 Sep 2007 /  #11
Condoms don't always protect against HIV. Correct ? Yes. So should church says that they do and make people forget about any responsibility ? Should priests provide free condoms to Africans ? Give me a break.

The whole issue is made up by anti-Catholic psychos, who claims that somehow Pope is responsibel for HIV. Like he could shout "condoms OK !" and HIV would dissappear.
OP ukpolska  
26 Sep 2007 /  #12
Condoms don't always protect against HIV.

Never said that but some priests are saying that they they have no protection
anyway.

So should church says that they do and make people forget about any responsibility ?

The church should never forget its responsibility to human life and not spreading lies, where they could be saving life's.

Should priests provide free condoms to Africans ? Give me a break.

Never said this; however, they shouldn't lie either!

Like he could shout "condoms OK !" and HIV would dissappear.

childish!!!!

Grzegorz, I respect you and you're quite a decent person that I have seen from your posts, but are your arguments and responses a bit tainted because I am british, would you be saying the same things if I was Polish? :O)
sapphire 22 | 1,241  
26 Sep 2007 /  #13
Should priests provide free condoms to Africans

why not? and not just for Africans. In my opinion, all religious denominations in all countries need to move with the times and wake up to the fact that if worn correctly, condoms do protect against HIV in most cases and actively promote the use of them. One of the biggest obstacles towards promotion of safe sex in Africa is fundamentalist religous leaders. In South Africa, all Methodist Ministers, including Bishops were encouraged to take HIV tests and declare their status in an attempt to encourage more people to go for testing. Catholic churches mostly promote abstinence, but they know that the reality is different for many people.. so yes, I think that all Ministers should promote condom use.
Ranj 21 | 948  
26 Sep 2007 /  #14
I think the whole point, G., is the church uses scare tactics to keep it's followers in line. I was raised Catholic, and I for one, do not believe a lot of what is taught in Catholicism. According to the Church, all forms of birth control are a sin.....sexual intercourse is only to be performed by married couples for the sole purpose of procreation. Given this fact, I would say the majority of Catholics have sinned.....even if a couple is married, are you going to tell me the only time they ever have sex is to try to create a baby?

Do condoms prevent HIV and Aids 100 %.....no. The only thing that prevents the disease 100% is abstinence from sex, use of Intravenous needles, and blood transfusions with tainted blood.....Condoms do help with the prevention of STDs and although not 100%, it's dangerous and irresponsible to say they don't help at all.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
26 Sep 2007 /  #15
Condoms used in Europe don't always protect against HIV and I really doubt that they have better quality condoms in Africa, rather worse. It's simply impossible to say what would happen If the church supported condoms. So why should they do that ? Becase some psychos say so ?

would you be saying the same things if I was Polish? :O)

O yeah... now play a victim card...
sapphire 22 | 1,241  
26 Sep 2007 /  #16
They may not protect 100%, but it is a lot safer to use a condom than not, not just for HIV, but other STDs too. Anyone who advocates otherwise is simply ignorant or has other motives (as in the case of the Catholic Church) All condoms have to be tested to a certain safety level so if they are used correctly they are effective. In Africa all hotels provide free condoms, they are placed on the bedside table or in the drawer and always on top of the bible...guess there is a kind of irony there.

I feel equipped to discuss this issue as I work on HIV projects with various churches.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
26 Sep 2007 /  #17
They may not protect 100%, but it is a lot safer to use a condom than not

That's quite obvious.
Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
26 Sep 2007 /  #18
I change my post (sory) I havent read whole discussion ...
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
26 Sep 2007 /  #19
I apologize for telling you to F. out but I don't change my mind.
plk123 8 | 4,149  
26 Sep 2007 /  #20
Show which part of my post is not true or STFU.

so nothing would help

there you go
Michal - | 1,865  
26 Sep 2007 /  #21
n Africa they f. each other like rabbits, so nothing would help and condoms don't always protect against HIV.

There is truth in this. In Africa they will use the condoms if offered but nothing stops them having sex. As for the catholic Church, as far as I know, it is a sin in stopping any form of procreation so maybe it is the condom itself which is a vice? It is also sad to say that wherever the people are poor the Catholic Church is at its zenith in power over the populace.
Polson 5 | 1,770  
26 Sep 2007 /  #22
In Catholic religion, having sex relation is bad (except for procreation), it's as simple as that, so how could the Church recommend condoms for something that's forbidden...
osiol 55 | 3,922  
26 Sep 2007 /  #23
having sex relation is bad

If someone tells you sex is bad, they need sympathy and help.
Polson 5 | 1,770  
26 Sep 2007 /  #24
LOL i think so ;) I'm just telling what the Church supports ;)
Truth 1 | 9  
26 Sep 2007 /  #25
Surprising that 'African folk' are accussed of promiscuity when most of the continent has been overpowered by Christianity. An Abrahamic tradition that has pretty much surpassed its cult beginngs (established by female followers after Christ passed over) to become the male dominated establishment it now is. Its grip on people has been very much down to the tools of fear, guilt, and shame about sex, sexuality, and the inherent entwinement of both with spirituality, and the subjugation of the feminine principle of deity, and women. All stemming from the writings of woman hating St Paul.

But look through the Bible, and read Genesis. Yaweh/Jehovah was one of many Gods of an ancient pantheon. Did Eve die from eating the apple of 'forbidden knowledge'? Who really lied to Eve? The serpent or the male 'God'? Strange it is how the serpent is symbolic of the Goddess from ancient matriarchal civilisation. And how she and Eve are demonised.

Much of this mentality still exists, especially in countries where the Catholic Chruch has enjoyed a rather affable relationship with the govenment.

Science Fact: Condoms are 99.9% effective at preventing the transmission of HIV. Not having them puts you at risk.

Whatever peoples social or cultural conditioning, promiscuous or not, they are entitled to sex education and provision of condoms and contraceptives.

Prevention of procreation is a sin? Well, does Ratzinger want on his conscience the fact that children are born with HIV every day? He has a comfortable life surrounded by gold and marble hidden away from the suffering he condones.

Fact: To withhold sex education and contraception is to put uninformed people at great danger. Hardly a 'Christian' approach to the situation by those who are supposedly morally and spiritually enlightened.

Keep it real folks. Let the scales fall from your eyes too!
Polson 5 | 1,770  
26 Sep 2007 /  #26
I think you're right Truth ;)
On this subject, is there a difference in Protestantism ?...i'm going to look for it ;
plk123 8 | 4,149  
26 Sep 2007 /  #27
yes, they tell you to use a condom but just don't have sex. :D
Polson 5 | 1,770  
26 Sep 2007 /  #28
Logical... :p
Michal - | 1,865  
26 Sep 2007 /  #29
f someone tells you sex is bad, they need sympathy and help.

Yes, but at what price?
Polson 5 | 1,770  
26 Sep 2007 /  #30
Good question...hehe

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