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Being remarried in the catholic church poland after being divorced


MCA 4 | 14  
15 Feb 2009 /  #1
I have a feeling that this is going to be a controversial post...

I am a divorced man from a civil marriage (outside of the Catholic Church). I was divorced 3 years ago. I was brought up catholic but would be considered a "lapsed" catholic since I stopped practicing my faith.

Last year I met my now fiancee who is polish. She reintroduced me to my faith again. We are engaged to be married. We would like to be married in Poland but we are not sure whether we will have problems being married in a church setting due to the fact that I am divorced. After talking to my parish priest where I live (not Poland) that because I was not married within the Catholic Church there is a path to be married again with the approval of the Church - after the relevant documentation has been submitted and verified and after spiritual and emotional counselling within the Church.

My priest says that from his experience it will be very difficult to find a priest to marry us in a polish church despite the rules that have been defined by the Church. (By the way, his negative view of the polish clergy stems from experiences that he had in the 1960s so maybe things have changed since then). If we were to get married in the UK for example it wouldn't be a problem provided we follow the correct procedures which may take some time (not a problem) - my parish priest has already offered to do this. But we really would like to be married in Poland - my fiancee is from Poland and we are planning to live together as husband and wife in Poland so for us to be married in Poland makes sense to us.

Has anyone been in the same position? What were your experiences of trying to be re-married in Poland? Outcomes?

Thanks.

Polite note - I realise that some people may consider that it's morally wrong to be getting re-married at all, which is a perfectly valid theological argument, but could we save those discussions for another thread if possible. (i'll be quite happy to start a seperate thread if someone wants to discuss other aspects of the question). Thanks.
Mikey4777 2 | 11  
15 Feb 2009 /  #2
My friend is divorced, met a lovely Polish girl, they are engaged to be married which they will do in Poland as they both wish for a Catholic wedding. Quite simply to cut the hyprocratic red tape they're not telling anyone about his previous as it's legally over and that's that! The legal side of things amounts to the paperwork which a clerk will do and the actual words etc will be carried out the minister of that faith. I know when another friend , divorced, went to remarry in England, one Priest said "No way" because HE didn't believe in it and another said " not a problem". You may be getting married under the "faith" but it's still in the eyes of God and I'm sure He dosen't condone religious persecution just because it didn't work out for someone before- your girl deserves the best so give her the wedding she wants and please God this chapter will be better for you both than the last...Remember, we are a long long time dead and only here but for a very short time. Good Luck to you both.
OP MCA 4 | 14  
15 Feb 2009 /  #3
Hi Mikey,

Thanks for your reply. The problem - if you can call it such - is that my fiancee takes a very rigid view of her duties as a catholic, doing it the way your friend did it is not an option for her. I have the feeling that we'll have to find a sympathetic priest who is more pragmatic/forward thinking in his interpretation of the scriptures and life as a christian.

Thanks also for your kind wishes - they're much appreciated.

Best Wishes,
Martin
lesser 4 | 1,311  
15 Feb 2009 /  #4
I don't know what is the stance of the Vatican in such situation. However even if you would find such priest as you wish then your marriage would not be valid anyway. Priest must abide to the rules.

Anyway, what is the sense of joining to the CC only to cheat? :)
OP MCA 4 | 14  
15 Feb 2009 /  #5
Lesser,

On your first point - I've taken guidance from my parish priest and he, with a certain authority - being a priest - tells me that any such remarriage, if all the correct procedural steps are taken - would be valid. So validity isn't the issue. I realise of course that divorce and remarriage is an extremely contentious issue within the Catholic Church which is why even if certain precedents have been set regarding remarriage within the Church that it can come down to the conscience of individual clergy as to whether they would be comfortable to remarry someone who was married before outside of the church.

On your second point I agree - we don't want to cheat - that's why we're trying to do things the right way.

Best Wishes,
Martin
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
15 Feb 2009 /  #6
I don't know what is the stance of the Vatican in such situation. However even if you would find such priest as you wish then your marriage would not be valid anyway. Priest must abide to the rules.

Anyway, what is the sense of joining to the CC only to cheat? :)

Rubbish lesser, the marriage was not blessed by catholic church, civil marriage is not seen as binding they can marry and it will be valid, also priesthood will be very helpfull and acomodating in a big city, sure he might have to bribe some old fart but thats our priests for you, full of shit and pictures of naked little boys.

MCA you will have absolutely no problem marrying in a large city, there might be some issues on deep province but otherwise your priest stuffed you with rubbish.
OP MCA 4 | 14  
15 Feb 2009 /  #7
Hi socrates, thanks for your very frank response to Lesser...

I don't really want to get drawn into the rights and wrongs of the catholic faith, because for sure there are many wrongs, but I think you're right...it's about a pragmatic approach to faith...i certainly hope so anyway.

Best Wishes,
Martin
lesser 4 | 1,311  
15 Feb 2009 /  #8
On your first point - I've taken guidance from my parish priest and he, with a certain authority - being a priest - tells me that any such remarriage, if all the correct procedural steps are taken - would be valid. So validity isn't the issue.

OK, if he say so. If this is what Vatican say then every priest in Poland must abide. This is hierarchic institution and they are not allowed to have different opinion. However you never know, some might be quite ignorant, especially in rural areas. If I would meet a priest who would refuse then I would complain to bishop about his behaviour.

Rubbish lesser, the marriage was not blessed by catholic church, civil marriage is not seen as binding they can marry and it will be valid, also priesthood will be very helpfull and acomodating in a big city, sure he might have to bribe some old fart but thats our priests for you, full of shit and pictures of naked little boys.

You quote me, saying that I don't know. If I don't know then I don't know. So how on earth my stance is rubbish?

I doubt that you have authority to comment about such issues. However I noticed that you have no problems to make claims about energetics knowing nothing about the subject.

I see that you have nice opinion about our church. This is indeed very "Catholic" to bribe a priest. As I wrote earlier, priest that don't abide to the rules should be reported to his bishop.

I don't really want to get drawn into the rights and wrongs of the catholic faith, because for sure there are many wrongs, but I think you're right...it's about a pragmatic approach to faith...i certainly hope so anyway.

You have strange approach. There is nothing wrong about Catholic faith, just individuals have problems to stick to it.
OP MCA 4 | 14  
15 Feb 2009 /  #9
Hi Lesser,

As I said at the start of this thread I don't really want to discuss the rights or wrongs of the catholic dogma on this thread, although I must admit my own views have strayed me into that path a little bit for which I hope I can be forgiven, but feel free to discuss by PM or on another thread if you like, i'd be happy to discuss with you.

God Bless,
Martin
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
16 Feb 2009 /  #10
I doubt that you have authority to comment about such issues. However I noticed that you have no problems to make claims about energetics knowing nothing about the subject.

Lesser my brother married a girl with a civil divorce so yes i have authority to comment about such issues, from the church law view its not a problem at all, some running around is or is not required because there are places where you will get married without any questions asked and there are places where there's paperwork.

I see that you have nice opinion about our church. This is indeed very "Catholic" to bribe a priest. As I wrote earlier, priest that don't abide to the rules should be reported to his bishop.

I have a very negative approach to our catholic church but the fellow came asking is it OK to be married to a girl that has a civil divorce and thats the issue, the bribing is a reality since our clergy can take their sweet time otherwise.

You have strange approach. There is nothing wrong about Catholic faith, just individuals have problems to stick to it

A religion is like taking a crap, a very private matter, unless its Jews of course then we should critisize them :)
g60edition 6 | 175  
16 Feb 2009 /  #11
Morning
Im in the same boat.Im getting married in Poland in August and have been married before(civil not church) I have had to dig all the past up in a Marriage Tribunal to get my old marriage annuled.This has been one hell of a ball ache as they can not put a time scale on how long it will take (so far 14 months) so dont plan anything!We have decided to do a civil wedding in Poland and IF we get permission we will have a church ceremony later.The thing I finnd funny that I get judged about my past marriage by people of the Church who cant get married,work that out! If you have to go down this route please be aware that you will have to give two names of witnesses to you previous marriage and they will be interviewd which takes about 2/3hrs.They will also want a statement from you ex wife,not an easy task I might add.We are at the stage that its with what they call a Defender of the bond.If they contest it it then goes to the Higher Church.There is also no promise that they will ever give you an anulment.We are off to the Register office later today to obtain a certificate of non inpederment which is needed to get married outside the Uk and its to prove you are not married.Then this has to be sent to Poland for translation.It would have been easier to swap teams and become a Catholic.

Any way hang in there MCA its like anything in Poland it takes forever and involes a mountain of paper work and red tape.Mca if you need to know more drop me a line im happy to help you .
OP MCA 4 | 14  
16 Feb 2009 /  #12
Hello g60edition,

I'm going to drop you a private mail.

Thanks,
Martin
Mikey4777 2 | 11  
23 Feb 2009 /  #14
And I thought we were in the 21st Cent !!!!! Rest of the world moves on and The Church digs it's heals in biblical times and refuses to budge-what a load of crap-you're right about the sexual abuse and little boys theme-and The Church expects everyone else to undergo the Spanish inquisition at the drop of a hat- Jesus forgives, it's in the Bible and we're taught that in Church, so the Church is so powerfull and above God that it cannot adopt the same stance-wake up you religious hypocrites!!!! if I was in MCA position I'd lie through my back teeth to give my Girl the day she wants why should she suffer for something that didn't work out in the past and why should everyone else be interrogated for a failed marriage...phew! feel better already!
Tamara 9 | 202  
23 Feb 2009 /  #15
Many years ago we were in a similar predicament. I have an annulment from my previous marriage but was told that in Poland, you must be married BOTH in both a civil ceremony and then in a church ceremony - the problem came with the Civil ceremony as the Polish government wanted a statement from someone in government here that I "was allowed" to remarry but in the US - they don't provide such statements as it is not their business to "allow" someone to remarry! So we just got married here in the states.
OP MCA 4 | 14  
23 Feb 2009 /  #16
Hi Tamara,

Well I'm glad you had a happy outcome in the end.

I will post up what the outcome is of our journey, because I think it is so helpful when you have the real-life experience of someone who's been through this because there seems to be so much confusion out there in terms of what can and cannot be done.

Best Wishes,
Martin

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