Black people in Poland

Right on Arien.

Maati where are you from?

This is old news. Some Polish women in my family told me how in the 70's african and middle-eastern students would bring their polish girls back home promising they would be princesses. When they got there, they became one of a 20 female harem. Some made it home right away, some in a few years, and some never.

I don't believe how naive these girls are! The information is right in front of their faces. I was in Warsaw this summer, I saw many Black-African and Muslim men. Mostly students and businessemen I was told. I saw not one Black-African or muslim women. Why? Because they where back at home without the freedom to come to Poland. That should give anybody a good idea of how stuff works with these guys!

Anyway, thats not the point. I had an issue with what Ankaxx, who said she was worried about coming to Poland with her Black Husband and explained that a mixed couple in the US is no problem.

First, I think Anka's choice should be tolerated and that she should not be discriminated agaisnt. But I see no reason why her choice should be welcomed in Poland. As I said in the past few threads, Poland and white people have their own identity that I beleive is worth preserving. By turning her back on that, I see no reason why I should pat her on the back and tell her "good job." This goes accross the board for all races... I think all races' identitities should be preserved. The problem is that the Polish and white population is declining drastically across the globe.

See this article futurepundit.com/archives/001283.html.

I think we, as white people, should think about making a consious effort to preserve it.

Second, Anka says mixed couple in the US are no problem. Judging from her grammar and comments, she has not been in the US for too long. She has no clue what she is talking about. Either by language or actions Polish People what will let you know what they think of you. People in America will tell you one thing to be politically correct and think a complete different way in private. I experience this on a daily basis. Infact, people in America generally do have a problem with mixed couples. Time magazine wrote an article called "The Meaning of White." In it they cited a survey where "a stunning proportion of whites--77%--say their race has a distinct culture that should be preserved."

Here is the address:
time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1531296,00.html

How are we going to preserve this culture if we intermarry. I support tolerance, but I don't welcome the degenration of my culture and identity.

I hope Anka responds, maybe she can help me see the light as to why certain people are so willing to throw away their cultural identity.

I am not losing sleep over this, but it pisses me off when people call self preservation Rascism!!!

Who gives a damn about preservation? If a race is declining, all of us will be long dead and gone before anybody could start to notice this without looking at statistics. If you love a person, marry them. Who cares? Whether they be your race or not. If you are in love, get married and have kids.

I agree. Marriage should be for love, not for creating a race. I think it would be miserable to live with someone you don't love just to help a race. No one will care about your sacrifice.

Valid points, but selfish and short sighted as well.

All the more reason, we shouldn't care about global warming or starving in Africa. Screw the environment, we should not preserve that for other generations? Who cares, right, no one will care about our sacrafice. We will be long dead and gone. iT WON'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

Have you read the books 1984 and Brave New World. I would like my children to live in a diverse world. I globe with brown eyes, brown hair, and coffee colored skin and one culture seems like a pretty miserable place.

Global warming and Africa's problems have nothing to do with marriage. It doesn't seem possible that all light haired, blue eyed people fall in love with and marry dark haired, dark eyed people. And even if it were true, people don't really gain true happiness by looking at other peoples' hair and eye color. Not true happiness. If the world is going to be a miserable place in the future, it won't be because of brown hair, brown eyes.

I like logic and numbers. We are getting into a phylosophical discussion. I don't think we need to go here, but this is interesting and lets see where it goes!


This is an unsupported statement. You have not explained why this is so? Technically I don't even need to respond to this. Here is the premise: If you think that we should preserve the natural environment for future generations, then why should we not also think about preserving the world's cultures and genetic charachteristics? Are they any less important?


Your right, improbable in the near future. If you take the current trend to infinity, then there is no doubt what the result will be.


Are you sure? People have preferences, some brought on by genetics and other by nurture. In my opinion, people with less knowledge about their culture's history and background tend to be more willing to give it up. They devalue it.

For example, how about the Jews. Their knowledge and value of their culture has preserved them for thousands of years. Knowing that their way of life and culture is preserved is true happiness for them. Obviously there are exceptions.


How so? Again unsupported? It would be pretty miserable to have one culture and one identity. Thats whats going on across the world right now. People are getting sick of the American Mcdonalds and Starbucks culture. Its taking over the whole world! People hatre it! We are fighting a war of ideology with the Middle east as we speak. Our culture agaisnt theirs! Maybe we should try to respect and preserve each other cultures instead.

Are you saying we should marry someone based on hair color and eye color or based on culture and ancestry? There's a difference between the two. Even people who marry someone of the same race and culture don't care about their heritage as much as the Jews care about theirs. What about two people of the same race who have different hair and eye color?

There's huge diversity among the Jews. Some are light haired, light eyed, while others have dark hair, dark eyes and dark skin. Should the lighter Jews refrain from marrying the darker ones to preserve light hair, light eyes for the future?

There’s also a great diversity amongst Muslims and Christians

Culture and ancestry first, but the two go hand in hand. Don't they? When you think of a dude in lederhosen, do you think of a typical Japanease guy or typical German.


and


No the lighter people should not refrain from marrying the darker people of similar cultures. The problem is the extremes. The complete dilution of a groups culture and identity.

Its not the end of the world if 2% of foreigner's mix in Poland. What I do care about is if 10 million foreigners show up and the original Polish population drops to 20 million. There is no way that won't have an effect on Poland's culture and national identity. Poland is still mostly Polish, I think the Poles should think about whether they need to follow the model of other Western Countries. Lets not get crazy with inviting in the entire world. The Swiss have a better model.

These aren't new concepts. 1 in 10 swedes are now muslim. The rest of the country is asking itself what it means to be a Swede. In London there are more people registered as muslims, then in the church of england. English are asking themselves why the goverment is allowing such immigration. Read these blogs and the news!

Shouldn't we preserve our culture and identity? I guess this comes down to values. It seems like you all think happiness and complete social freedom are the most important.

I think we have a duty to the past and to the future. How many Poles died fending off the Teutonic Knights? How many died fending off the Bolsheviks? How many defending Poland from Germany and Russia and Turkey and Sweden!

These wars were not only over culture, but over national identity as well. The German's wanted to erradicate the slavs.

Have all these people died so that we, as Poles, can throw our national identity and culture as slavs into the melting pot of the races?

I don't think so, it makes no sense to me. Its like putting out an arson's fire in your house, so you can set it on fire yourself later.

Your point of view makes sense. Many of us are already a mix of ancestries because of everything that's happened throughout history. One country conquers the other and the men bear children with the women. The idea of a pure race seems ancient. But if it does still exist, then, yes, it should be preserved. If not, people will definitely wish to have it back. It reminds me of the Native Americans who are trying to recapture the ways of their ancestors. The problem is that they are now part European and they can't get rid of that. The same thing will happen to Europeans.

Thank you for understanding my pont of view. By no means are the Poles pure, there has been an influence from the Swedes, Germans, Mongols, and Tartars. But our identity and culture has remained pretty consistent for the last 1000 years. A small influence is ok its the huge one that is a threat.

Mixing won't happen to all Europeans. Like I said, it will be a cold day in hell when it happens to the Swiss.

And it does not have to happen to the Polish!

Most of my family, even those in America, have been taught about what it means to be Polish and they know what our ancestors died for. I was raised in America and speak polish fluently. My sibling was born here and speaks fluently as well. I am proud to be American, but at the same time Polish. And even if I marry an American, I marry her on the basis that I will get a 50% share in teaching the child polish culture.

I know many more Poles like this here for their MBA and college. Althought they mess around, they know their place is in Poland. My friend always said "My grandfather fought with the AK during the Warsaw uprising, when the Russians came they pulled out all his teeth torturing him. How could I turn my back on being a Pole. I am from there and I am returning."

My problem is with understanding people like Ankaxx, who show up for what appears a very short period of time, and throw away this national identity in record time. Did it ever occur to her how many people have fought to preserve it. When she accuses the Poles of rascism, did it ever occur to her that people who's ancestors fough to preserve the Polish culture and identity may take offense to her decision to throw it away.

Maybe I am completely off track? I have talked to Poles about this before. It appears as if young poles are so pissed about the goverment that they forget about the beauty of their own culture. All these Poles bang on about the Indian culture and how wonderful it is. No doubt, it is a great culture and should be preserved. But it has some very bad aspects as well. Men paying dowry for wifes, the caste system, the fact that girls are being aborted in record numbers since child limitation was set. Many new Poles are completely ignorant to this fact or prefer not to talk about it. Cause, surely, their culture is by far the worst!

Polish women, right off the boat, complain about Poland for 20 min and then two minutes later go on about the muslim cultures and how great they are. THAT IS A PERSONAL INSULT TO ME. Listen the only reason you are here in America, England, or anywhere else is because you came from a culture where there are more women graduates from college than male graduates. If the Poles were like the muslim culture you would be at home making babies.

This can be a very touchy subject, I have never talked to a Polish person who has chosen to marry another race. I hope Ankaxx responds and sheds some light for me.

Who knows? Maybe in a year I will meet a muslim girl and my world will turn upside down and I will think: how could I have been so ignorant? Something tells me not likely. I won't want to wonder whether I will be able to serve alcohol at my wedding.

Which Poles ? I bet that 99% of people in my area can't say even a few words about the Indian culture.
And If you say that "Polish Americans" are so cool then tell me what they actually did for Poland ? Look how Jews in America lobby for Israel and "Polish Americans" can't even put pressure on the government to change the visa rules.

You should definitely inisist on teaching your children the Polish language and culture because many parents don't do that and their kids regret it when they become adults. They feel like they are missing an important part of themselves.

agree. same happened in our family. MY parents knew Polish, and would only
talk it when they had a secret going on. but both learned it growing up in
catholic schools, and parents, when my siblings and I went to public schools
and this is not taught there. nor did they teach us.

Especially the raped concubines :)

And that's just in this country! (GB) lol

My family was completely quiet about their Polish heritage and they seemed okay with it but I'm the one who regrets it. I think there was once a lot of prejudice against the Polish so they kept it quiet instead of standing up for who they were.

I had heard from other family members that when they came, because of all
the war, fighting that they just wanted new lives, and to forget what happened
and I can understand that to a point (forgetting the bad) but not what your
culture stands for. I guess it all goes hand in hand.

One of our Uncles came here, to avoid getting drafted , but they caught up with
him through his father and was going to jail him ( his father) if he didnt return.
He had to write a letter to the govt stating that he had stole money from him
in order for them to not jail him. And the truth was he just left Poland on a whim
with his friends to come here, they all boarded a boat and that was it. None of his
friends or him wanted to be a part of any war. this was in 1905.

The Polish people suffered greatly because one man wanted to maintain racial purity. He invaded a country which had no qualms with them. The ideals and policies of this man considered Poles as inferior and subhuman. This man wanted to create a permanent genetic and racial apartheid. One of his plans was to totally exterminate the slavs and poles. He backed off this plan yet still believed poles were inferior. He systematically killed millions of jews in the interim in Poland. This man was Adolf Hitler.

Anytime I hear of a desire to maintain any culture via approbation of miscegenation, it frightens me. So thoughts of so called cultural, racial, ethnic purity are nonsense. Let people freely intermix and enjoy the cornucopia of human diversity. It's our genetic diversity that has maintained the species alive. Differences make life more interesting and divisions kill us all.

The preservation of a race should not be forced through antiquated laws like the nazis put into place. That's ridiculous. I am puertorican. Puertoricans marry every race on the planet. No PR cares about that. There is still puertorican pride and parades. My father tells me that when the first martians land on Earth, puertoricans will be there to greet them with banners asking for marriage, LOL.

josecitomadera,

If you marry a Polish woman, will you teach your children Spanish and also your Puerto Rican customs or will you allow it to become forgotten?

You can teach them both customs. Heck, I'll learn Polish right alongside them. I feel that all races, ethnicities, cultures should embrace our common humanity. Afterall we are the only "homo" genus left on Earth, correct?

Yes, but evolutionary change towards asexual reproduction means an increasing number of "homo"sexuals :)

*Standing ovation applause*

Josecitomadera:

You don't know your Polish history very well. Also, you are Purto Rican and so I don't see why you would care about preserving Polish culture. Some people actually do. Many intelligent well educated Poles think it is a dsigrace that Poles turn on their heritage so quickly as soon as they see the first 50 cent video.


Thats Puerto Ricans... I don't know your culture. I know my culture has been fighting to preserve itself for the last 1000 years. Now once we have thrown off the communists and we have no more enemies form the outside, ignorant poles seem to devalue the importance of their culture. Right now Polish people are their own worst enemey. They are failing to preserve the culture they have fought for all along. Why fight for it if you are just gonna give it up in the end?

Hitler tried to erradicate people. I am not suggesting that the poles erradicate all other cultures. I am just saying we should try to preserve the polish culture.

You get "scared" because you are ignorant and don't understand the difference between Hitler's racil superiority plan and a people's cultural preservation.


Have you taken Biology 101? If we let all people intermix there will be no more cornucopia to enjoy!!! Blonde hair, slanted eyes, blue eyes, for example, are all recessive. These traits can dissappear.

So please spare me the lecture on enjoying the cornocopia. There will be no corcnocopia if we decide to intermix.

Also, Mr. Josecitomadero, Spanish-Americans are not declining steadily like the white race. Infact, in the next 50 years Spanish-Americans in America may be the majority.

I'd liek to see if you would be singing the same tune if your culture was on the decline.

Pardon the spelling it is late here...

You're a reasonable human, guest3. I'll agree with you on the point that cultural preservation is a good thing. My point being that though Puertoricans mix freely for centuries there are still many blonde hair blue eyed puertoricans. If you need proof I'll post pictures here of my own family. I don't know of anyone that doesn't find that pretty.

Black and brown puertoricans always say that the white, blonde, green or blue eyed puertoricans " son muy lindo". That they are so good looking. You know if you had more Poles who where mestizo, mulatto and black they would actually look up to the lighter fairer ones as special. At least that's what happens with latinos.

If everyone is blonde and blue eyed where is the mystique of it? It's just another one of the whole. With the mix you get the interest perked up.


Like I said earlier I'll agree with you on the cultural preservation thing. If I gave the impression otherwise, I make a full retraction. Guest3, is the situation that dire? You are 40 million strong. Are all 40 million negating their Polish heritage for baggy jeans, malt liquor, and P Diddy, 50 cent and Usher?


I agree. I never was defending murderers, rapists and psychos. Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iraq and many Eastern countries have alot of work to do before they can enter the civilized world. But not all citizens of these ccountries agree to these ways. Let's not blanket judge an entire race of people for the lunacy of a few.

Keep these psychos out of Poland, Europe and any civilized country.


ThanX, can a culture save itself without intervention?

Black soldiers in Polish army :): poloniatoday.com/blacksons0404.htm

People, having just excitedly ushered in the New Year with great cheer and delight, this forum has depressed the hell out of me. While I love Krysia and Maati's spirit, the truth is probably closer to what 'Guest3' has been posting. Nationalism, Conservatism, Racism, call it whatever. The fact is, most Polish think the way Guest3 does. I'd say the majority are even worse. I'm black and adore Poland. I ADORE POLAND. I've never had a racist experience here in Poland, Warsaw, Krakow, Wroclaw, Gdansk - anywhere. But I am very receptive to opinion and body language and I'd say black folk are considered to be an inferior, but tolerable race. You see it in their eyes and hear it in what they say almost every social situation. I have been lucky, but that's because I speak fluent Polish. But watching fellow black men here who don't, struggling with prejudice and extreme intolerance leads me to conclude that no matter how many blacks there currently are in Poland, the Poles will always be intolerant of a black face. The funny thing, they also don't even have to be in Poland to do it. In West London, there are many Polish cafes and bars where I can stop business dead into an erry unnerving silence by simply walking in and speaking. No it's not just innocent curiousity or even nervous embarrassment, it's a lot more foreboding and unsettling. This is in happy, clappy, cosmopolitan London!!!! Nothing will ever stop me loving Poland, but attitudes like Guest3's may stop me from going anymore if it gets worse. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, but life's too short to take the risk of possible attack. Maybe best to construct a new era of Black/Polish relations here in London. Anybody want to help me build this....?

go for it :)

Having grown up in the depths of souf london in an area famed for its diverse mix of ethnic vibrancy i now live in a south coast city devoid in many respects of the *black influence* i grew up with... mores the pity...

if you feel that you can construct a new era of Black/Polish relations in London then great... i am behind you 100%... but sadly i feel that in many parts of the uk where poles have settled they are going to encounter attitudes displayed by locals towards blacks that are not far off from what you have described above...

correct me if i am wrong... please...

Please, D tell us more about your experience. How are u fluent in polish ? Well in fact I have so many things to ask you ... how did u get to Polska ? Why? When? How much time have u been there?

I am planning to live there for a little while (szczecin, gdansk, krakow, wroclaw, warszaw, itd). Do u know those regions ? How is the life of a black man there? Do we have to live inside dark-only communities ? How is the life out of these communities ? The process of making native polish friends ? Acceptance for work ?

Well let me stop here ... I just crazy about everything :-)

thanks!

No! Of course not! You're allowed to walk down the streets and ride the tramwaj.
Many Poles know there are students from different countries studying in Poland and they don't have a problem. They know you are a foreighner and probably don't speak Polish and they respect that. Some are proud that other countries are interested in Poland, but some might not be.

Try not to meet any Polish Skinheads, they will crack your head open.