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Will Poland become like the UK ?


truhlei 10 | 332  
20 Jul 2007 /  #31
Why are you frightened of them ? Do they cause you physical harm ? How do the illegal immigrants affect you ?

1. Some of them are living in communities that are not transparent and that helps them to commit crimes, in many cases against their compatriots here.

2. there are season criminals among them. They come to steal and return after making a crime. Police fiunds it uneasy to catch them.
3. Although there is a great corruption besides ilegals they manage to corrupt public servants even more. Local authorities and businessmen seem to be interested in foreigners more because they can't use their Human Rights.

But pay attention: I'm not against immigration. I am immigration widening in Russia. The point is that we should use good metodics of immigrants admission.
Lady in red  
20 Jul 2007 /  #32
I would be unable to debate this with you. i am tolerant of all races, creeds, rich or poor.

I always think, there but for the grace of God go I. Which means that I was lucky not to be born in poverty nor in a third world country. Who are we to be judging whether someone is a beggar or not. What would you do if you were starving ?

We're all members of the Human Race. we should remember that sometimes, I think !
OP away guy 10 | 343  
20 Jul 2007 /  #33
Who are we to be judging whether someone is a beggar

OMG , cant u see when someone is a begger ?
Lady in red  
20 Jul 2007 /  #34
You missed the whole point ? Anyway, someone begs, so what ? They must be illegal then, musn't they ?
truhlei 10 | 332  
20 Jul 2007 /  #35
May I ask something further ? How free is the press and media in Russia ?

Internet is absolutely free.
Newspapers are free but most of them require money and now they are going to loose battle with internet mass-media.
TV is more free than in Communist epoch and on the same level it was in 90. In 90 TV was owned be some oligarchs and now it came to different state supervisors. The same liberty as well as its lack.

I noticed some reasons TV freedom is not improved yet but don't pay attention only to the first one:
1. State interfirence.
2. The unexistence of bipartisan political system as in UK. It is only in creation.
3. TV is for millions and it depends upon their ideas. Nobody will be glad to watch marginal dissidents groups and listen to their ideas (Kasianov and Kasparov etc. are smth like British communist party for British people in the 70-80). As to pluralism in general it is still represented on TV (soft nationalists vs. great nationalists). The deficiencies of today TV may appear later, in some 2-3 years when public will feel itself insatisfied.
OP away guy 10 | 343  
20 Jul 2007 /  #36
You missed the whole point ? Anyway, someone begs, so what ? They must be illegal then, musn't they ?

I never said all beggers are ilegal ! I said the ones iv heard talking and some iv seen are ilegals , plz read my posts before u comment .
zion  
20 Jul 2007 /  #37
yeah kick the ilegals africans out of Poland
Lady in red  
20 Jul 2007 /  #38
Thanks trutheil. That's interesting. The internet has certainly opened up the World to everyone. Especially in China and probably the same in Russia. I've always thought it important to be able to read as many people's views as you can before I decide my own viewpoint on a particular subject. The internet is great for things such as this.

Although the newspapers here are not particularly hindered, you do find people's views can to a large extent depend on which newspaper they read. Not so much television anymore, as it cannot be as biased with the internet freely available.

Our views are also largely based on how we and where we were educated. I would imagine being educated in a communist country would have a direct bearing on some peoples views ?

Not sure how you would view this ? I was educated in Catholic schools and I was affected by that until I started work and eventually started questioning some things I had been indoctrinated with.

those people that were begging from me couldnt speak correct Polish.

I never said all beggers are ilegal

I did read your posts........and I felt you inferred they were.

away guy.......I'd like an answer to my question about those stats you mentioned ages ago.
Puzzler 9 | 1,089  
20 Jul 2007 /  #39
re: i think if people from poland go to uk and other places . in a few years poland will look like what is england now......full of asians ,africans ....and more ,more more more .....then dont complain if you are doing this now

- Well, but you are -at least you allege so - a foreigner yourself, living in the UK. There are scores of folks from your country living there too. I would think there are more of them in the UK than Poles. Isnt it, therefore, well, a bit bigoted on your part to complain about Poles coming to the UK? Who do you think YOU are, espana?

;)
Amathyst 19 | 2,702  
20 Jul 2007 /  #40
We are just stating the fact that we hope Poland doesnt become a shittt hole like the UK

I thought you were not trying to insult my country, but I think you have a couple of times, maybe think about your own country, where ever that maybe before you start attacking other countries.
espana 17 | 910  
20 Jul 2007 /  #41
a foreigner yourself, living in the UK

yes i know but i work hard , for pay my mortgage here , pay my tax etc,,,also i have a house in spain, i dont come here for live in a consul house and cheat like this african and asians who want everything for free. you have to remember that my wife is english and at the moment if she is happy here, (this is the only thing i do care)

then becouse i have to work hard for pay my mortgage , bills ,tax etc, etc is very difficult have kids in this country and what they do this people........have five six seven and more becouse the state of england give some money for each kid ,..(patetic)

There are scores of folks from your country living there too.

for one spanish here you have five english living in spain and i dont care that they are welcome for me like others nationalities..
. have a look why this cheat fuc*(asians and africans) dont go to spain ...just becouse the spanish government are going to give to this people fuc* all

if you want a house ...work for that
if you have a kid ....work for that
so spain is not good to this people.......alelulla!!!!!!

on your part to complain about Poles coming to the UK?

i didnt complain i only say (and we speak about this before) that poland will be like england in five or ten years so i hope you welcome this africans , asians , spanish etc etc ,

i dont say england is a bad place i only hope poland welcome only people who work hard and not cheat like they do here

Who do you think YOU are, espana?

a bigot!!!!
Amathyst 19 | 2,702  
20 Jul 2007 /  #42
a bigot!!!!

I dont think you are, you just have your own point of view.
espana 17 | 910  
20 Jul 2007 /  #43
and i m sorry for that !!!!
truhlei 10 | 332  
20 Jul 2007 /  #44
I think EU acts in a right way if it creates a special Immigration bank and every man outside EU deposits some amount of money. If he violates rules this money will cover his deportation and law-enforcement bodies activities connected with that. If no, he can visit EU mare and more without any visa. Fingerprints internet base is also required.

It is uneasy to understand EU oficials logic. They ignore all new technologies and progressive methods. Only hard works of Consulates abroad and powerless police activities.

hope poland welcome only people who work hard and not cheat like they do here

The point is that foreigners from out of EU you describe suffer from those who came only to consume social assistance.
The are treeted as if they are like that lumpens. Because public doesn't often try to distinguish immigrants.
It was quite humoristic to listen about Paris immigrant children who put cars into fire. Frenchmen discussed the lack of sympathy towars imigrants the lack of attention that made them criminals. French society is guilty...

But there are many imigrants from the same arab countries who worked hard, achieved middle class status, live away from social residence and have good friends among respectable native Frenchmen. Their children study hard and respect French values and order in the society.

They had the same start. They are the example for the others. And also the accusation.
But nobody in France seemed to mention them. Everybody seemed to discuss victims of social injustice i.e. criminals.

By the way, are there many unconvenient foreigners, lumpens and criminals among those who receivet citizenship following military service in French Foreign Legion or Spanish army or any other EU army. It seems to me that people who payed for his new citizenship by yard military service wille never return to any ethnical community in his new motherland and he is more patriotic and aimed to enter a middle class and marry a native woman.

Do you know anything about that?
Puzzler 9 | 1,089  
21 Jul 2007 /  #45
re: i dont come here for live in a consul house and cheat like this african and asians who want everything for free

- Wow, espana, I have always thought you are for their coming to and settling in Europe, especially Spain. I remember that when I expressed my compasson for the Spanish, including the Spanish immigration authorites, who must put up with the tremendous arrogance of some of the sneakers-in, especially Arabs, you had an outburst at me and slammed my country - Poland - as an alleged 'mess.' And now you seem not to apprecate those Asiatics and Africans.... What made you change your attitude?

re: a bigot!!!!

- Do you really regard yourself as one? How Socratic of ye.
;)
PS. I'm just kidding. How are you? Always nice to talk to you.
espana 17 | 910  
21 Jul 2007 /  #46
Puzzler

i m fine puzzler thank you!!!
some asian and africans for me are welcome in europe ,but only a few if they are going to work hard and be in pace with the communities.

dont come here and try to change the communities mr asia , and mr africa.
truhlei 10 | 332  
21 Jul 2007 /  #47
What is your opinion on workers from Ucrania and Belarus now widely involved into housing construction in Spain. Do you consider restrictions of this community should be more or less? Visite a Espana dos veces como turista pero ya hace mucho tiempo. Que pais bonito pero en verano no pude acostumarme al abuso del aire acondicionado y siempre andaba resfriado.
espana 17 | 910  
21 Jul 2007 /  #48
What is your opinion on workers from Ucrania and Belarus now widely involved into housing construction in Spain

for me is fine , if they are hard workers and good people

Goverment must act now and stop foreigners living in Poland because it will become like the UK.

ok so is ok for you have 1 millon polish in GB it s not fair what you are saying
truhlei 10 | 332  
21 Jul 2007 /  #49
some asian and africans for me are welcome in europe ,but only a few if they are going to work hard and be in pace with the communities.

I'm sure there are many people of the sort for example in the West Ukraine. They are good workers and their culture is more similar to Spanish one than some from other continents.

But Spain doesn't have such approach to immigration that can permit a separation between those who can work hard and those who come only for parasitism. They all are quolified as illegals, those who work hard are victims os underground business without taxes for Spain and security and human rights for foreigners.

There are still no responsable recruiting companies that can select workers abroad and have registration in colsulates ans supervised by diplomates. There are no strong recruiting bodies that can give quality garantees to Spain and to the foreigners if they are convenient.

Many businessman in Spain are interested in ilegal workers without rights and in their tax free work. And the fact that different supervising state bodies don't notice such violations signify first the corruption on local authorities level and second the fact that Spanish society have many rights but for business and prosperity rightless people are still required.

for me is fine , if they are hard workers and good people

What is your opinion on mechanism that can make such separation possible?
Cual es en tu opinion el mecanismo que permita elegir precisamente este tipo de mano de obra?
Amathyst 19 | 2,702  
21 Jul 2007 /  #50
and i m sorry for that !!!!

Dont be :) I prefer someone who is open than someone who doesnt speak their mind though thinking these things.
espana 17 | 910  
21 Jul 2007 /  #51
But Spain doesn't have such approach to immigration that can permit a separation between those who can work hard and those who come only for parasitism.

you talking about other country for me this is not spain
many businessman are intersted in ilegals workers!!!........may be criminals but not businessman
truhlei 10 | 332  
21 Jul 2007 /  #52
Espana look,

Hard workers and in foture good members of society from East European countries can arrive only if the are admitted to work in respectable companies that pay taxes, give money to pension and medical fund and also have obligations according to labour legislation. Such people are ready to receive much less than Spanish citizens but they want their work is secure.

For now only prostitutes and some people looking for adventures can leave for Spain. In Russia for example hunger threat doesn't exist now and a respectable worker won't look for adventures abroad.

That's the reason why Espana has an image of smth like Latin America in 16 century, i.e. place for adventures.

It's well known that one cannot make a secret he has underground workers from local public servants. Why don't they notice? Why such businessmen aren't punished? Because first the corruption and second Spain doesn't still has an approach to immigration policy. On the one hand people are frightened by ilegals. On the other economy requires a rightless worker. Why There are so many ilegals from abroad EU while many people from Romania and Bulgaria a looking for job? Because these people have rights and can work legally and ilegals are more profitable

may be criminals but not businessman

It seems to be the same thing. Sometimes.
Well give another explanation of challenges mentioned above
Amathyst 19 | 2,702  
21 Jul 2007 /  #53
truhlei

Espana, is talking about the masses of Africans, Somalis and asians in the UK, they have upwards of 4 children because they claim bennefits whilst people like espana don't feel he can aford to have a family just yet, because he is busy paying his mortgage and tax and NI and pension and god knows what else - life in the UK isnt cheap if you work hard, so you will have to excuse him if he is a little bit angry at the fact some people come here - do fek all and manage to find the money to cloth and feed 4 / 5 kids!
truhlei 10 | 332  
21 Jul 2007 /  #54
if you work hard, so you will have to excuse him if he is a little bit angry at the fact some people come here - do fek all and manage to find the money to cloth and feed 4 / 5 kids!

I understand these emotions. I could be also indignated. Although it seemd to me that such standarts for foreigners are sometimes quite ilogocal also for native people. I don't think anybody should be payed for children, and as to social policy in EU in general, its provisions concerning the native residents also don't contribute to those who work more and more active.

The point is that methods how to separate a util part of imigrants are required. Not only desires.

Espana, is talking about the masses of Africans, Somalis and asians in the UK, they have upwards of 4 children because they claim bennefits whilst people like espana don't feel he can aford to have a family just yet,

But I'm trying to explain him that immigration system and its deficiencies are favourable only for such kind of imigrants
OP away guy 10 | 343  
21 Jul 2007 /  #55
k so is ok for you have 1 millon polish in GB it s not fair what you are saying

Espana my friend , imean the goverments must all fight to keep their countries clean from ilegals even if that means to move Poles from UK back to Poland only if they are not giving something back to the UK, i dont mind people living legally and working hard but all the bumms and scum must be sent home ASAP.
espana 17 | 910  
21 Jul 2007 /  #56
But I'm trying to explain him that immigration system and its deficiencies are favourable only for such kind of imigrants

not always i m an imigrant too but i feel very sorry for the english sometimes ,one thing is be generous but not an idiot
Amathyst 19 | 2,702  
21 Jul 2007 /  #57
The Polish have no choice but to work, they are not allowed to claim anything for 16 months (not that the vast majority would want to), so I dont really see your above comments being related to what espana has said, his problem is not with Poles but with people from 3rd world countries coming and screwing the system in the UK. But with all the bleeding heart libberals out there the man on the street doesnt stand a chance.
espana 17 | 910  
21 Jul 2007 /  #58
and the english should be very proud of england
OP away guy 10 | 343  
21 Jul 2007 /  #59
Well the fact is that now that Poland and so many EU countries are in th EU , they can live in the UK and where ever they like so they nomore ilegal. All im against is ilegals living in many countries for example warsaw and its poor ugly bus station made ugly by the foreigners.
truhlei 10 | 332  
21 Jul 2007 /  #60
Espana my friend , imean the goverments must all fight to keep their countries clean from ilegals even if that means to move Poles from UK back to Poland only if they are not giving something back to the UK, i dont mind people living legally and working hard but all the bumms and scum must be sent home ASAP.

The same thing:
You are talking of what but nothing about HOW
Well, some facts - you are offered to oppose:
1. Ilegal doesn't mean underground and secret. Local public servants if they know nothing about him that only means the don't want to know that. Sometimes thay say it is difficult and expensive to depart ilegals but no proposals of admitting in EU only people who have deposited money for their possible departure and who presented their fingerprints. No ideas of the sort despite its evident efficency. But the EU supports hard and expensive work with visas.

2. Ilegal imigration should be a crime. If anybody penetrates ilegally he should be sentenced to prison. If he tells his name and his relatives collect money for departure, well he becomes free earlier.

Why it is not so?

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