Polish Integration with other Nationalities

That was my point too and my comment wasn't directed specifically to you.

The "multiracial is good" crowd tends to forget how some of those paradises for all ethnic groups became so racially "tolerant". Colonies and slave trade anybody?

But there are countries where non-native races abound, even though those countries had no colonies. A lot of people in those countries are taking a second look. Look at Sweden. It's a disaster. A few years ago Swedish police were looking for a murder suspect. They gave a detailed description of the suspect but failed to mention one small detail - the suspect was black. They couldn't because it would be deemed racially prejudicial.

Poland is fine the way it is and I have nothing to add here, other than reaffirm this suggestion - if you don't like it then get the fvck out of there. I say the same to Poles (and others) who complain about Canadian ways.

Well When I decided to move to Poland, everyone in New York as like "what?? why????" they all thought that it was cold, borderline third-world, and full of vodka drinking slavs, which is a bit like the prevailing opinion of Russia. And they all figured that it would be intolerably racist.

That wasn't my view of Poland, for if it was, I would never have moved here!


And there goes fascism. To complain is a right, and fun one too! That's usually how society progresses, one group complains until their condition is improved, your thinking just totally derailed on that one!

And while interracial communities are not paradises, (New York is no paradise,) neither are homogenous communities, where outsiders trying to experience or learn something new are persecuted, sometimes physically attacked. What kind of behavior is that? One that should be changed no matter who you are!

When Jews in New York complain that some punks sprayed swastikas on their homes, or when black teachers complain because some more punks hang nooses on their door-knobs, Z_Darius would say "well if you don't like it you can get the fvck out!"

I am in awe of your wisdom.

Interesting to know that your average American is quite ignorant (or maybe that's just your friends) as for the opinion of Russia, that funny actually it's really funny since Russia is the worlds largest country and has some of the worlds most wanted resources and has some of the worlds richest people, it would appear that the average Americans (your friends) opinion is worth jack sh!t!

Again why sould we force multi-culturalism on every country in Europe since I dont see many Europeans heading for Islamabad, Bombay or any of Africa..

We do however go to Aus, but the UK is full of Aussis and Kiwis so thats a fair trade!

Where does it stop? I am Irish, I live in Poland. Or do you take Europe as one ShlleyS

Yes Americans are quite ignorant but all stereotypes have a basis of truth.

But the thing you say about russia is hilarious! Tis actually calls for a retraction.

Russia has been ruled by a greedy Oligarchy that's been channelling the wealth of the nation into its pockets, that's why there are some very wealthy people in Russia. Meanwhile, the average population is not so well off. I'll take Wikipedia's diagnostic over yours any day:

"he average Russian life expectancy of 67.7 years at birth is 10.8 years shorter than the overall figure in the European Union.[152] The biggest factor contributing to this relatively low life expectancy for males is a high mortality rate among working-age males from preventable causes (e.g., alcohol poisoning, stress, smoking, traffic accidents, violent crimes)"

The average salary in Russia was $640 per month in early 2008, up from $80 in 2000.[111] Approximately 14% of Russians lived below the national poverty line in 2007,[112] significantly down from 40% in 1998 at the worst of the post-Soviet collapse.

So what the hell are you talking about?

Europeans have more in common with each other and assimilate and since we have a little thing called the European Union I would say we are one big happy family, it's free movement from one country who's economy is alike to another - the only reason so many Polish came here was because their economy wasnt up to the same standard as the West but that is changing and we are seeing less and less coming and more and more going home...

What tree did you fall out of?

So all black American men are crack addicts, murders and rapists then or a rap artist if they're lucky to get out the ghetto!


Have you ever been to Russia? Do you actually know any Russians? And if you look at my statement I said 'some of the worlds richest people' I didn't say that everyone in Russia was a billionaire! It also has one of the fastest growing economis, whilst America is slumping fast and bringing the rest of us down with it, Russia is flourishing..


Im not the one who's had the bang to the head, I can see what's going on around me!

Don't mention the cold war.

Russia are going forward it's a pitty more countires dont take that initiative, its more productive than looking back....I think their economy makes that point, dont you?

Shelley I conclusively refuted your statement which was meant to imply that Russia was some kind of paradise that didn't have to deal with poverty, alcoholism, bad health,etc, no I haven't been to russia and I am not tempted. While I'm sure there are some fine places, and that stereotypes are exagerrated, many Poles here corroborate the stories of low quality of life for workers in Russia, hence the violence, crime, mortality rates, and alcoholism. You're not very in tune to your surroundings.

And if I say that all stereotypes have some basis of truth, it doesn't follow that all african americans are crack-addicts etc. You need to work on your logic.

BUT there is a basis of truth to that. A lot of blacks in New York are normal, well to do, middle class folks, but way too many are wannabee gangstas trying to be as thuggin as can be, selling drugs, engaging in a life of crime, while thinking that it will all be glorified on some multi-platinum LP with their wack rhymes on it. They feed the stereotypes that I and a lot of other young blacks try to break whether I'm in New York or Warsaw.

Where are you?

You can conclusively refute whatever you want, but what you just described can be attributed to any country in the world...alcohol abuse is prevalent in all countries, Russia is by no means the leader. As for my implying that Russia was some form of utopia, I don’t see that I did, I was merely pointing out that they had a very good economy and are at the moment doing very well when the West are suffering.

You say that Poles corroborate you stories regarding Russians, prey tell how many Poles did you pole to come to this conclusion? Would it be fair to say that you spoke to a few people and they said that Russians are poor? If that’s the truth, we in the UK could conclude that all of Poland is poor because so many come here but that would be really just too stupid for me to believe since I’ve actually visited Poland, you however have never visited Russia, so you don’t have an informed point of view.

I’m very in tuned to my surroundings thank you very much, I’ve also taken time to do some research about Russia, you however didn’t do much research about Poland apart from get the opinions of a few ignoramuses!

Stereotypes are often outdated and somewhat like caricatures, they have a resemblance but are merely there for amusement.

I think, that multiculturality is a better way to integrity with another nations. Poland is a country,in which lives Gypsies and Jews. Muslims lives mainly in Podlasie region (Kruszyniany). Refugees and emigrants migrate to Poland from Czeczenia, Ukraine, Romania.In Poland lives too a black peoples and Chinese people. In Poland is a very different mentality. Poles likes Muslims but don't likes a Gypsies. Antisemitism mainly exist in the skins subculture and at some nationalistic organization, which are not open for other cultures. Majority of people likes Jews. Life of the national minorities in Poland (Gypsies,Czeczenia refugees and Ukrainians) are very difficult. Refugees often will must wait very long for a refugee status. Poles organize many forms of help for this people. Mainly organization which are called : Caritas, Polish Humanitary Action (PAH), Polish Red Cross and very other organizations.

Don't tempt him.

another thing seems that you don't understand the word stereotype. I clearly stated that back where I'm from there were a lot of bad stereotypes about places like Poland and Russia - and you got offended. Why? And what do you mean I didn't do much research about poland besided get the opinions of a few ignoramuses? Do you know how to read and follow a line of thought? I clearly mentioned that those stereotypes were held by people I knew who knew nothing about Poland except for their own personal stereotypes, and therefore would never venture around here.

I clearly stated that I didn't share such views and that that explained why I decided to come here and even live here for a while. So where are you haveing trouble? Are you denying that peoplle have stereotypes? Then you are not very well-rounded my friend, and while the stereotypes may not be true, they do contain a certain basis of truth. Poland WAS pretty bad not that long ago. It's amazing that it has turned around so much. Same with Russia, although I think Russia is still experienceing a lot of problems. Statistically it is worse off then Poland and the rest of Europe. While many Western states may have economic problems, those relate mostly to markets and such, while the general population still enjoys standards that are far beyond what the average russian can expect. The average income is less than $700 a month! So what are you talking about it being better off?

So you are complaining and therefore you are a fascists?


So far you have been complaining about booze stores being open too long for your tatste. You have been also complaining that Poland is not multicultural enough, which is funny, considering the fact that the in many aspects of its societal composition US became multicultural because people were kidnapped in far away countries and brought to the US as slaves. Poland had no colonies so Poles did not bring slaves to the country.


You have the right to learn, but you are a visitor so behave as such. If you come to a home you should be treated with utmost respect. But when you start moving the furniture around and start inviting others without your host's permission then you are an intruder, and you deserve a kick in the as.s as you are forced out through the door (a window is fine too).


Nope. I would say: keep that mess at home and don't try to bless Poles with the "benefits" of your multicultural city. Poles don't need interracial riots like those in Brooklyn or Queens. They can riot perfectly well. Just go to almost any soccer game.

As I wrote before, change is the only inevitable thing, and so Poland will likely change in years/decates to come. For now it is what it is and I'm glad.

And again, if you don't like the way Poland is then the solution is simple. Just start walking in any direction. Eventually you will cross the border and relieve yourself of the duty nobody in Poland asked you to burden yourself with. That may also bring you closer to home where you have the full right to work towards the changes it needs.

You can cross the border and get into Russia as well.There you will be really relieved from burdens.

Yep many Western countries are having problems with their markets which in tern is causing job losses, house repossession and a whole host of problems, but it's nice you simplify if so easily!

You went to Poland for one reason, your girlfriend!

you keep referrring to the $ and average income, but each economy is different, equivalent to $700 would just about cover my rent in the UK but would be a years salary for a field worker in India - it's about cost of living, something I dont think you are getting the gist of here.

Im not sure if you are aware but a large proportion of construction within Czech Rep is Russian and in the UK the property market is dominated in the capital by Russians, so please dont tell me that Russians are some poor down trodden

Im not sure if you are aware about economics but the first thing to go is when consumer spending minimises its spending on the high street, you will note from the link there is an upturn in retail spending...

kommersant.com/p847117/r_1/Statistics_2007_Salary/people

Polish Integration with other Nationalities
I sincerely hope Polish have integrated with my nation Ireland as well as possible and the majority of the feed back I get from home is that Polish are hard working and are well behaved.

In the not so distant future I will not be surprised to see the first real generation of Irish/Polish kids.

The guy said, he would not date a WHITE woman simpley because of the colour of her skin, so if not racist, then prejudice against white women! It's not a one way street honey!


Polish and Irish and English and Irish it's all good, and weather you like it or not there are a large proportion of English with Irish surnames and some probably more Irish than yours!

Wow I guess you just aren't capable of thinking straight. You were saying that people who complain should just leave the country - that's fascist. I'm saying that to complain is a right, and when people come here they cant help but form opinions about the place, that's human nature if you know anything at all. So why should I leave Poland if I think it's too homogenous? Again, you fail using common sense. I SHOULD STAY! So should other foreigners, and this will help break the trend a bit.


Well that's just not how most of America's diversity came about.
you seem to forget that the greatest influx of foreigners came through Ellis Island during the twentieth century, all the jews, italians, asians, hispanics and caribbean blacks...they weren't forcibly brought there, they migrated there. But as concerns Poland, you can't force diversity, but we get into these debates when guys like you start spewing that whole redneck "love it or leave it" crap whenever people like me make passing comments on the situation here, which is only normal.


I wouldn't follow my girlfriend to Afghanistan, or any other intensely undesirable place, but done a bit of travelling in my life, I know that most stereotypes are just that- stereotypes, and I learned what Poland was like from my girfriend, from what I knew fromm history books and the news, fromm doing research online etc. I'm here now and it's fine, except for a few particulars which I like complaining about. Which is only normal. Nobody likes to be stared at like he's some kind of circus freak, or taunted because he's holding hands with a white girl - and it's only reasonable that I hope for such behavior to change over time.

Why are you so angry?
Yes of course there are many English people of Irish descent, England was for a lot of Irish people a place were they could work. You do not seem to know what you are talking about and you are making false assumptions.

You must be English

You are complaining about a country where the indiginous population is white and why should you break the trend....what trend is that, should we send hords of European Catholics to Islamabad to break the trend there?

England:

Brixton - Black rioting
Oldham - Asiams rioting

yeah thats multi cuturism at its best LEAVE POLAND ALONE!

Ah, so you're saying that 700$ covers the cost of living in Russia. I don't know about that, news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7263081.stm.

"Alexei earns 17,000 roubles ($600) a month, but a day's worth of supplies from the supermarket costs him $30. "My wife and I both have to work to make ends meet," Alexei says."

So while I may not know much about economics, I still see that an average salary of $700 a month does not suggest a healthy middle class!


Western Allies left Poland alone (when they shouldn't have,) during WWII and that really backfired. I think some international presence in cities like Warsaw will help make Poland more imposing on the international scene, and vest more international iinterests here. I don't see why youo feel so concerned to keep Poland racially pure. What's it to you that some foreigners come through here? Why shouldn't they be treated with respect? Why should thye be persecuted?

No, that's a doze of reality for you. The country won't change overnight, and certainly not because you went there. If life in Poland is unbearable for you then what other advice would you like? It would be cruel of me to suggest that you become active in the area of changing Poland's ethnic composition. In a country where 99.3% are ethinic Poles, and only a tiny fraction of the remaining small minority are non-white people, you would indeed get slaughtered if you went full blast with your social engineering.


How is the trend you are suggesting better? The so called multicuturalism in EU, and in some other countries, has been a disaster.


First, you are mixing a few things here. I saw no reports of persecution of Brits or French, or Swedes in Poland. so the fact that so many came through Ellis Island means squat. Most of those were white people. The Hispanics either stayed after the US chopped off some land from Mexico, got to the US illegally (ever watch news from your own country? About 20 million by the last count), and only a small number of non-whites came through Ellis. As for the caribbean blacks... how did they get to the caribbeans?


Waidda minute! Isn't "redneck" an American term? A term from a country blessed with the wonderful diversity where all Americans love one another and show utmost respect to all races? Is that what you wish for Poland?


Happened to me all the time I found myself in predominantly black neighborhoods in the US. I sure was watched like a freak would have been watched. I remember once (by mistake) I went too many stops and found myself in a subway in The Bronx, so I do understand how you feel. Only that I didn't think I could change the Bronx so I left. I left NYC too. You want to tinker with social engineering, and in Poland that may be an unwelcome game - whether you're black, pink or translucent.

Polish Integration with other Nationalities
I think you are all off topic, it is not other Nationalities you are talking about, it is non whites.
Just making an observation.

Well I am in Warsaw which is as all major cities compared to smaller places the exception concerning diversity. I welcome diversity and dont necessarily see how the multiculturism in the rest of Europe has failed. Of course there will be problems. Welcome to the new world. As far as America let us not forget that the largest immigration to the states was involuntary slavery. As far as Poland I feel it is important to remember the extreme isolation imposed on the society by the Russian rule. 15 years is a very short period of freedom and 5 years in the EU is as well. Most of the younger people seem pretty open minded and friendly. You get racism everywhere in the world. I think people will become more tolerant and openminded as time goes on. Comparing the US and Poland is really inaccurate as they have completely different situations. The US is based on a history of immigration while Poland has had a history of emmigration which (in Poland) may change in the next 5 to 10 years as the economy improves.

Reasonable post overall, but this needs a hint or two.

Check historic data for crime rates in Sweden in the last 20 to 40 years. Check how Denmark has been doing with their muslims. How about Holland?

People in Autria had spoken too, but their democratic election results a few years back were deemed unacceptable by EU standards. How is the German love for Turks doing? Even far away from the old world, is the US really such a good example of how multiculturalism works? I see racially motivated tensions in the US on a daily basis. heck, even the current presidential elections should give you a hint or two.

Same in Canada. Most Americans I know complained that Toronto changed for the worse. Their parents used to take them there for weekends. I dunno how it was say 30 years ago but I just don't like the city and go there only when I have to. My American pals tell me that it was much safer, cleaner and a pleasure to visit. It's not anymore, they say, but it's multicultural now. Toronto was used in urban studies as an example of a great success story. Now it's being used (in the same universities) as an example of an urban failure.

Large parts of Europe have also become a melting pot indeed, but the heat is too high - changes are taking place too fast and the well wishers tend to forget that in many cases immigrants bring with them values the existing population is not ready to accept, sometimes unable to tollerate. Not yet at least. Let things simmer for a while. don't bring them to a sudden boil.

I never said the country should or would change overnight, in fact you later quote me as saying the exact opposite.


Immigration brings its own set of problems, but I don't see any disaster in Sweden. That's where my mother lives, things look good in Stockholm. The only country where I can see a problem with multiculturalism is France, where they have issues with their Muslim population, but I'm not knowedgeable in these areas by any means, so please school me if you like.


Well that so many came through Ellis Island is what we usually mean by melting Pot, not just that there are black people. There were problems and for a while Italian, jewish, Russian and Polish immigrants were looked down upon in New York, they all had their day. What does it matter how hispanics got there, they got their and faced the same issues.

And it doesn't matter how blacks in the caribbean got there, the point was that wherever they came from blacks also emigrated to the US during the twentieth century, and that the melting pot status of the US wasn't forced, it just happened.


I never hinted that US was a place of "wonderful diversity where all Americans love one another and show utmost respect to all races" I worked at a civil rights office in New York where I had to deal with cases of police brutality against blacks, Jews being targetd for hate crimes, etc. I know the realities of immigration, but this mostly happens in over-crowded places (like us cities,) I lived in Switzerland for ten years which is pretty diverse, but a lot more harmonious, I don't think there's much overcrowding there. So yeah we have '"rednecks" but you have the equivalent here in Poland too. What's strange is that even though Poland is so homogenous, you still have redneck types, there are racist skinheads, racist hooligans, etc, as if immigration was a problem here - it isn't close to being one.


Well I guess you CAN change the Bronx, many white Students have moved to Harlem, Brooklyn and the Bronx because of sky-high rents, while I'm sure some get robbed everynow and then, no newsworthy problems there. There's a greater risk of black-on-black violence actually, that's why harlem would actually be safer for you than for me. So by moving in and staying is how these neighborhoods become more diverse.

But regardless when did you hear me advocate social engineering? You're just making stuff up, putting words in my mouth, I'm just complaining about racist attitudes here, which is normal, for these should be confronted and resolved somehow. I do it by living here, and being nice and polite to everyone I meet. That works. But I never suggested some forced way to deal with it.