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Damn proud of being (half) Polish


Seanus 15 | 19,706  
4 Apr 2009 /  #61
You raised the issue of acceptance in the last part. What if I was a Jew born in Iran? Not accepted by mainstream Muslims from Iran. I was raised in Iran but see myself as Jewish. Wouldn't I be an Iranian Jew?
HatefulBunch397 - | 658  
4 Apr 2009 /  #62
Yeah, You would still be an Iranian because of the nationalism factor. Because of Nationalism most have to accept the identity of that nation. You can reject it but it doesn't really matter because you are in the middle of it and it's all around you. So, you are going to make yourself stand out more that way. I think you can be christian or jewish and still live in an Islamic country if you don't try to convert. Christians like to convert by offering charity as a lure and this makes them more mistrusted by the status quo.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
4 Apr 2009 /  #63
And if both my parents were Israelis?
Guest  
4 Apr 2009 /  #64
am proud that my dad fought in WWII

my aunt is mad that my granpa didnt fight in ww1, he wasnt forced to because he was an olny child & she always complains about that & it so annyoying, but my other granpa taught people how to fly the planes in the war & thats good enough
HatefulBunch397 - | 658  
4 Apr 2009 /  #65
Israel's a country made of people from other places, kind of like America. There isn't so much a cohesive identity. Chances are your parents would be immigrants and naturalized Israelis.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
4 Apr 2009 /  #66
People from other places, like where? Yehudi doesn't have a cohesive identity? Let's say they were born in the State of Israel, what then? Immigrants from where?
HatefulBunch397 - | 658  
4 Apr 2009 /  #67
What I mean is, a cohesive identity like a Scot would have because Scottish have been in Scotland for a while but an Israeli might have Iraqi parents, or Russian, or American. They have that influence on their national identity. They think of themselves as Israeli but there's more of a connection to the place their parents lived.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
4 Apr 2009 /  #68
Yes but they still have their own State and that's the point. That's their nationality which is the factor you were mentioning. Since 1948 is a while btw.

If you look deeply enough, almost everyone is a descendant or a mixture of sth or other. The Scots were Picts. People from Newcastle have Danish roots etc etc.

Are you saying that there is no such thing as a pure Israeli with their own well-defined values and systems? That's who my parents would be in the hypothetical example given.

More of a connection to Russia, right? So why do the Jews call Jerusalem their Holy Land with an INEXTRICABLE connection to that territory? Jerusalem was around long before many other modern nations.
HatefulBunch397 - | 658  
4 Apr 2009 /  #69
Well, yeah, and it will be more obvious in a few generations. It makes you question nationalism, what it means and why it's important. It's hard to imagine anything more than temporary states, even though "temporary" can mean hundreds of years. Has anything lasted forever in the history of mankind?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
4 Apr 2009 /  #70
Exactly, HB, exactly!! Well, change that to nationality. Nationalism is the dislike of other nations whereas patriotism is pride in one's own.

Jerusalem was well before biblical times if that's what you mean.

You are right to mention temporary. Add modern and contemporary to that. They are confusing words in English, not easy to unequivocally and unambiguously define.

Your thinking is quite sharp here, HB. I majored in this and you are asking good questions. Let's keep it up. I'm off for a shower, brb.
Nathan 18 | 1,363  
4 Apr 2009 /  #71
Has anything lasted forever in the history of mankind?

Stupidity, laziness and curiosity - three driving forces of our civilization existed from the beginning.
Beza  
5 Apr 2009 /  #72
noimmigration: All the polish talk about their contribution in ww2 was a handful of polish pilots.

"Probably up to 2 millions Poles served since September 1st, 1939 to May 8th, 1945 in all the Polish military formations – regular armies, partisan troops and underground forces. In the final stage of war the Polish troops on all the European fronts amounted to some 600 000 soldiers (infantry, armored troops, aircraft and navy). In the summer of 1944, while commencing regular military struggle against the retreating Germans, the armed underground numbered more than 300 thousands sworn soldiers. It can be concluded that Poland put in the field the fourth greatest Allied army."

Many people seems to don't know about that or don't want to know.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,768  
5 Apr 2009 /  #73
Nationalism is the dislike of other nations whereas patriotism is pride in one's own.

now where did you get that from i wonder? i'm not sure that's the best way to express the difference either. don't get me wrong, i don't know the best way but somehow i think there's more to it than that.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
5 Apr 2009 /  #74
Well, I knew it well before my Callan days. It's something you should know by the time you reach secondary school or not far into it. There is more to it than that but we are not dealing with scholars here if you catch my drift ;)
George8600 10 | 636  
8 Jul 2009 /  #75
A half Pole can be indeed considered an all out Pole. Do we deny Chopin or Copernicus of being Poles? Or other Poles such as Marie Curie for declaring herself a French and moving to France (not that she denounced her Polish heritage and citizenship).
Matowy - | 295  
8 Jul 2009 /  #76
congratulations on such a fine achievement as having at least one parent who was polish. For this you certainly put in a lot of effort, and that effort paid off.
You should also receive an ovation for all the sacrifices you made in 44 and deserve to be proud of that.
:)

Haha, I love this reply. There's nothing more amusing than seeing idiot nationalists brought down a notch by reality.

You cannot be half german or half polish, you are either polish or not.

I'd like to further expand upon this by pointing out that Caucasian officially refers to all or most ethnic groups within Europe, North Africa, Middle-East, South Asia, Central Asia, and North Asia. Yes, who'd have thunk it? Skin colour actually means very little when it comes to ethnic classifications.

"Probably up to 2 millions Poles served since September 1st, 1939 to May 8th, 1945 in all the Polish military formations - regular armies, partisan troops and underground forces. In the final stage of war the Polish troops on all the European fronts amounted to some 600 000 soldiers (infantry, armored troops, aircraft and navy). In the summer of 1944, while commencing regular military struggle against the retreating Germans, the armed underground numbered more than 300 thousands sworn soldiers. It can be concluded that Poland put in the field the fourth greatest Allied army."
Many people seems to don't know about that or don't want to know.

Before anyone swells with pride upon reading anything that their country/ethnic group contributed to WWII, let's all take a step back and try and realise the scope of WWII, and why it's utterly pointless to be proud of a war that killed hundreds of millions of people worldwide:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participants_in_World_War_II article lists 103 participating countries, so pretty much anyone can give themselves an ego boost by saying that their country/ethnic group contributed to WWII. Newsflash: A LOT of countries were involved in WWII. Yours is no special snowflake among them. Also, pretty much anyone, if they can be bothered to trace their family tree, can find someone in their family who participated in the war. "Wow, my grandpappy was one of the millions upon millions of people who fought in the war, how unique!!!" - do you see now how stupid this sounds?

In the off-chance that you're still mentally deficient enough to still want to have some feelings of pride directed in or around WWII, or your national/ethnic heritage in general, let's take a look at some selectively good points that various countries have attributed to them during the war:

Germany - built itself from the ground up into the most powerful, respected and feared country on Earth. Plunged the entire world into the most brutal and unforgettable war in the history of mankind, and managed to wage war on too many countries to even count, all by itself. Most interesting, though, is that despite being defeated and plunged back into it's pitiful penniless state, it recovered in a "miracle-like" fashion. Even today it remains a largely important country with envious influences and economic success. It even recovered faster then the United Kingdom, which actually won the war and had histories largest Empire at its disposal. OR... ololooloolllol I'm damn proud of being German, durrr.

Canada - "About one million Canadians served in uniform during WW II." I don't know Canada's population back then, but by today's standards 1 million people is a huge 1/20'th of their population. OR... ololooloolllol I'm damn proud of being Canadian, durrr.

India - I thought this one would be extremely fun to mention, seeing as how its contributions are often 100% overlooked in the history books, and that this forum has a striking disdain for Indians. "Over 6.8 million Indian citizens fought with the Indian Army, Royal Indian Air Force, and Royal Indian Navy, forming the largest army raised by voluntary enlistment. Part of India was occupied by Japanese forces during the war, and India suffered 1.5 million civilian casualties, as well as up to 4 million dead from famine in the Bengal region, which was created by both the Japanese military actions and the British administration[citation needed]. Over 96,000 Indian members of the armed forces were killed or went missing in action, and 74,354 were wounded during the war. Indian personnel received 2,000 awards for gallantry, including 31 Victoria Crosses." OR... ololooloolllol I'm damn proud of being Indian, durrr.

Iran - "Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi, who was willing to fight the Axis powers. Within months Iran entered the war on the side of the Allies and became known as "The Bridge of Victory"." OR... ololooloolllol I'm damn proud of being Persian, durrr.

Ireland - For being neutral, they sure contributed a lot. OR... ololooloolllol I'm damn proud of being Irish, durrr.

Saudi Arabia - "Saudi Arabia did sever diplomatic contacts with Germany on September 11, 1939, and with Japan in October 1941. Although officially neutral, the Saudis did provide the Allies with large supplies of oil. Diplomatic relations with the United States were established in 1943. King Abdul Aziz Al-Saud was a personal friend of Franklin D. Roosevelt. The Americans were then allowed to build an air force base near Dhahran. On February 28, 1945, Saudi Arabia declared war on Germany and Japan." OR... ololooloolllol I'm damn proud of being Saudi Arabian, durrr.

South Africa - "Union of South Africa declared war on Germany shortly after the United Kingdom, on September 6, 1939. Three South African infantry divisions and one armoured division fought under Allied commands in Europe and elsewhere, most notably in the North African campaign and the Italian campaign. Most of the South African 2nd Division was taken prisoner with the fall of Tobruk on June 21, 1942. Under the Joint Air Training Scheme, part of the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan, South Africa trained 33 347 aircrews for the RAF, SAAF and other Allied air forces. Only Canada trained more." OR... ololooloolllol I'm damn proud of being South African, durrr.

Turkey - During the War, Turkey helped the Jewish Community by protecting those who made it to Turkey. OR... ololooloolllol I'm damn proud of being Turkish, durrr.

United Kingdom - The United Kingdom was one of the original Allies, entering the war in 1939 to honour its guarantees to Poland. After the fall of France, the United Kingdom was the only Allied nation left in Europe until the invasion of Greece. It remained the only one of the Big Three in the war until 1941 when the Soviet Union was invaded. The United Kingdom was heavily engaged in the Western European, Atlantic, Mediterranean, African and South East Asian theatres, and was considered one of the Big Three during Allied conferences in the second half of the war. The United Kingdom maintained close ties with the nations of the British Empire, and the forces of those countries were often incorporated into British military operations. OR... ololooloolllol I'm damn proud of being British, durrr.

Hopefully you'll see what I'm saying.
Jihozapad  
8 Jul 2009 /  #77
You do not have polish blood.

Race, ethnicity and nationality aren't the same thing though. I'm not going to start explaining haplogroups, but you may want to look it up somewhere. ;)

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