Language / Why Polish people use so many words to describe a situation? [122]


Hear, hear. :-)
What I would have said, or what I hope I would have been able to say, had I the mental discipline to sit down and think for a while instead of just blabbing away randomly :-)

Language / Why Polish people use so many words to describe a situation? [122]


Andrea Gilroy, Gerry McNeilly - are these names of "native speakers"? Probably yes. They are also the names of the authors of the book I quoted earlier - and the perpetrators of the terrible grammatical mistake also earlier discussed.

Which brings us to an interesting question: can a native speaker be wrong when they choose to use a particular, grammatically "unorthodox" structure? - and, if not, why is a non-native speaker wrong if they make exactly the same choice? I don't know about the current approach to native usage of a language, but some years ago I was taught that "the native speaker can do nothing wrong", i.e. whatever utterance they choose to come up with, it will be correct by default. Now let's assume that my - or anyone's - command of English is so good that it reaches this level of "native (in)competence" - what then? Just askin'. And just so you know, I never liked the idea of default native language competence, and so my question belongs to the devil's advocate scenario. ;-)

Seanus: I wonder if you are still too tired for this type of a (sic) discussion, LOL

You scoff at Google as a source of lexical corpus. But it does seem that quite a few native speakers of English are beginning to turn to the dark side of "type of *a". Makes you think - or at least should.

Language / Why Polish people use so many words to describe a situation? [122]


I'll get back to you with this. I have to rush now, because I basically procrastinated all morning and now it's payback time ;-(


Deception / deceit are, AFAIK, both uncountable nouns, maybe that's why the indefinite article sits uncomfortably there. On the other hand, Google gives over 2000 links to UK websites with "a deceit" used in them. Somehow, I don't like the look of it, but there it is.

The internet is awash with phrases like "this type of *a screen / discussion / problem / configuration" though. As said above, I'll research this more in depth later, time is NOT on my side right now.

Language / Why Polish people use so many words to describe a situation? [122]


I think we are talking at cross purposes here. I understand - and know - exactly what you're driving at. On the other hand, there are people out there who seem to be taking up the "this type of *a whatnot" form, because, most probably, they seem to feel that "this type of whatnot" is not exactly the same - for whatever reason. Or they are getting confused with "a type of whatnot". Who knows. But they're native speakers of English

Whatever the reason, it's not just me - the non-native - it's them (the natives) as well, which brings us nicely back to the question of default competence - or lack of it.

Language / Why Polish people use so many words to describe a situation? [122]


Well, I don't think it will replace the "correct" form; but it's out there, and has to be taken into account. Quite frankly, I wouldn't have used it yesterday, because I generally don't use it at all, but I thought "why not?" - because it is in the air, somehow. It kinda grows on you ;-)

I tend to read a lot, including tabloids, you see. I also spend a lot of time googling phrases and stuff to check for context / existence / non-existence of same. Some of the findings are really surprising (to me) - like the "a deceit" I mentioned earlier. Would you have said "this is a deceit"? It sounds really weird to me.

Language / Why Polish people use so many words to describe a situation? [122]


Actually, I'd agree with that one. English IS changing very rapidly, not because it's such a special language per se, but because it has spread into so many different channels. I think a Victorian reader of Dickens would have a dickens of a problem reading Hemingway - and that's mid-20th century. Don't get me started on anything more modern! ;-)

Language / Why Polish people use so many words to describe a situation? [122]


That is why I chose Hemingway as my "modern" writer. His prose is actually quite lucid and clear - to us. Think more along the lines of Konopnicka reading Nałkowska or Wańkowicz.


My point was - nobody seems to be actually using this word. If this is does not point at a word's demise, then I don't know what does.


To me, a person speaking this way would sound more pretentious than anything else.


Sure. Words like love, bread, home, mother, sky, sun have not changed for centuries and centuries. Because we use them, and they are meaningful to us. On the other hand, if we no longer find a word useful, it slowly drops out of use, and then dies. That's what those little crosses in the dictionary stand for = archaic / obsolete. I don't claim "blandish" is archaic, I just couldn't find a single example of it being in real, everyday use. Therefore, to me at this point it is technically dead.

Language / Why Polish people use so many words to describe a situation? [122]

But people still use wonderful, splendid, marvellous etc. It's not a question of replacing all words with one modern, popular synonym.

It's just that certain words are not used any more. Period. And if you do use them, you either immediately give away your age (in case of obsolete slang, for example), or you risk being seen as a woolly rhinoceros of the vocabulary ;-)

And some words are just old, and have aged beautifully, and everyone still uses them. And that's the absolute majority of words we use today :-)

Language / Why Polish people use so many words to describe a situation? [122]


courage; mercy; passion / compassion; amorous; honour; guard; cavalry; damsel; isle; mortal; regret; orange; Eskimo; page (a knight's young assistant); valour; coast; distress; martial; cream...

and that's just the tip of the tip of the iceberg...

Language / Why Polish people use so many words to describe a situation? [122]


Direct Latin influence + Latin filtered through French - sometimes it's hard to decide which route a borrowing took. But most "big" polysyllabic English words are Latin / Greek.

Not everyone knows that many European languages, incl. Polish and Czech, absorbed cliches of meaning rather than the actual Latin words, hence e.g.:

wpływ = influx = influence
(something which literally "flows" onto something else, engulfing it like water)
podwładny = subordinatus = subordinate
stolica = sedes = seat / position of authority
(the Old Polish stolica meant a seat, as in chair or throne)
podpisywać = subscribere = sign
(write underneath)
Rzeczpospolita = Res Publica = republic
(the common / public thing)

etc. etc.

Law / Paypal, moneybrokers etc. - payment options for online Poland's store? [10]

My father is already retired (and so - presumably - old-fashioned) yet he's got at least several debit cards and one credit card and uses them all the time, also online. Paypal exists in PL as well, I often send money that way.

Life / POLES' ENGLISH COMPARED TO EUROPE AS A WHOLE? [39]


I used to teach English at university. I really worked my *ss off to make a contribution there, but most of the students had this really idiotic attitude that they were signed up for costly English courses outside uni, so would not bother to work during my class, because my class was free, and therefore crap by definition. They actually told me that. And they absolutely HATED any practical activities such as listening comprehension / talking in pairs / discussion as a group. They would be happiest when I relented and reviewed grammar with them for the zillionth time, or wrote long lists of vocabulary on the board.

News / Poland will take half a century to catch up with the West [240]


How about UK banks, where only this year instant bank transfers were introduced as a wonder of wonders? (Something I had been used to in Poland since at least 1998). How about UK post offices, which are basically glorified corner shops (most of them)? I also see nothing wrong with the Polish health care system. Heck, ever since coming the UK I have apologised to all Polish institutions that I had thought badly of in the past! Speaking of health care - my father had unexplained pains in his lower abdomen, and within a MONTH he has had several ultrasound scans, two consultant appointments (one neurologist and one cardiovascular specialist), an x-ray, at least 5 GP check-ups, and ongoing rehabilitation (all under regular Polish health care - he is retired). I am well and truly impressed. In the UK, he would maybe have gotten past the "take a paracetamol and come back in a week" phase with his GP by this time.

Life / Are Polish People Hypochondriacs? [50]


I think that the British have been brainwashed by the government into thinking that they don't really need medical attention for most ailments, as this attitude saves the NHS massive amounts of money. I hate going to the doctor myself, but I KNOW when I am really ill, and in my job as community interpreter have seen many genuinely ill people sent home with some paracetamol. By ignoring the early stages of a serious illness, the NHS may initially save some money and a bit of the doctors' time, but then complications often set in and the patient needs a lot more treatment in the long run.

And as far as antibiotics are concerned - I am surprised to learn that things like pneumonia, bronchitis, tonsilitis or inner ear infections are viral and will go away untreated. Are these illnesses unknown in the UK? Antibiotics have been invented for a reason, they should not be prescribed without good cause, but they serve a purpose! Nobody prescribes antibiotics for the common cold, not even in Poland for chrissakes.

The same goes for stuff such as smear tests, which are performed once in 3 years in the UK, while the Polish recommendation is once a year. I would rather have two tests too many than one too few.

Life / Are Polish People Hypochondriacs? [50]


Believe you me, I am working very hard on this. Hopefully this is my last year in the UK. I do not regret coming here, as I have learnt a lot. But my home is elsewhere.


Never ever bribed anyone in Poland, including the medical profession.


Yeah, for example a high fever, wheezy cough, severe pain around the ribcage, dizziness... Sure, a paracetamol or two will fix that right up.


This is the flip side of the coin. Some people get so annoyed with being ignored by their GP, or not being able to get an appointment when they need it, that they prefer to turn up at A&E instead. Shouldn't the triage nurse be able to get rid of those?

There are many things I like and appreciate about the UK but the NHS is definitely not one of them.

Life / Are Polish People Hypochondriacs? [50]


You pay them - they come to expect it. Simple as that. Don't pay. I never did.


Never said that. But I don't like being called a hypochondriac just because I happen to have had direct experience with several serious illnesses, and just might know the symptoms. I don't like being called a hypochondriac just because I think it's normal that if I do feel very unwell, the doctor should take me seriously. From my personal experience, Polish doctors as a group tend to be more interested in the patient and much more ready to examine them. A typical British GP will not touch you, look in your ears/throat, or listen to your chest unless strongly requested to. But of course, there are some lousy Polish doctors out there (personally met them), and hopefully some wonderful British ones (though I haven't had the pleasure).

Life / Are Polish People Hypochondriacs? [50]


I thought we were comparing Polish and British? But to make you happy, let's see... I was treated in the Czech Republic, in India (private health care, very high quality BTW), Poland, and the UK. That's about it.

I think I can generalise about PL vs UK national health care, at least to some extent, because obviously I have seen quite a number of Polish doctors in my lifetime, and I doubt there are more than several surgeries I haven't repeatedly visited as interpreter in a certain borough of east London ;-)

So, naturally, patterns tend to emerge.
Oh, and one exception: hospital doctors in the UK are typically quite the opposite of GPs. All due respect to them.

Life / Are Polish People Hypochondriacs? [50]


I kept saying British here, because I frankly do not know who they are exactly. It's less of an ethnic thing, more of a mindset, I'd say. The English, or British, patient, has this "grin and bear it / stiff upper lip" attitude, which means they don't complain enough, I think (even when they're really poorly) - and the GPs take advantage of that and tell them that "it's just a virus, absolutely normal at this time of year", and rarely stop to think about other, more sinister possibilities. And a good time is had by all. ;->

Overall, this attitude to illness and health care seems quite alien to us eastern-central-whatever Continent-dwellers.

Life / Are Polish People Hypochondriacs? [50]


Overall, where your health is concerned, I guess it's better to whine than suffer in silence ;-)

News / Poland will take half a century to catch up with the West [240]


Up until summer this year a bank transfer from one British bank to another took up to 4 working days to clear. Now it finally only takes several hours. You can read more about it on the internet.

guardian.co.uk/money/2008/may/27/banks.currentaccounts


It took me much longer than 15 minutes to open my account at Lloyds TSB - about 2-3 hours. And it took me under an hour to open my bank account at PKO SA.


WTF is that?! ;-)


I spend at least 30 to 45 minutes waiting in a long line snaking outside my local post office / corner shop to post my letters. Every day. In London. I think it's damn crap!!!!!! ;-p

News / Poland will take half a century to catch up with the West [240]


I hope you realize I was winding "away guy" up with this one. And no, I cannot just buy stamps and drop my letters in the letterbox because I use Special Delivery.

BTW, why do you assume I had a terrible life in PL and ran off to the UK? I had a good life in PL, but was curious about the UK - 2004 was my first chance to visit the country whose culture and literature I studied all those years ago.

News / Poland..wake up to a multicultural world [1059]


THIS.

Imagine anyone saying that every country MUST have white people. GASP! :->

Language / WHO AND WHEN COINED THE TERM DUPEK? [13]

It's much older than that, probably way pre-WW2, and has nothing to do with półdupek. Most European languages have this sort of ass-associated term for a nasty, stupid, arrogant person.

Life / School holidays in Poland - do 'half term hols' exist? [10]

[quote=Seanus]
It comes at a time when many students are preparing for mock MATURA tests.

I don't think ferie have anything to do with it, esp. that university students have ferie as well, at approx. the same time. It's simply a winter break between the two semesters of the school / academic year.

When I was little, everyone had ferie at exactly the same time, the current approach is quite recent - introduced maybe in the last 10 years or so.

Life / School holidays in Poland - do 'half term hols' exist? [10]

As far as I remember mock matura examinations used to be conducted sometime in April... At least mine was (1986).
Of course, the run up to the ferie is a stressful time, as you have to wrap up a whole semester of school work, so there's loads of tests and stuff to endure, while the students still haven't quite realised the Christmas break is over ;-) On the other hand, once the ferie start you're good. I can still remember the exhilarating feeling of freedom.

Food / Why do Poles just not "understand" healthy eating ?? [82]


...who does? I almost never use the stuff, and neither do my relatives, friends, other people I know... Little old ladies probably do, but little old ladies the world over have weird cooking habits, don't you agree? ;-)

Life / Top 3 Most Important Things about which polish dentists will LIE to you bigtime [46]

...have never had that experience. On the other hand, when I show up with a very bad tooth and beg for it to be saved (treated, not extracted) the dentist bends over backwards to save it. I am a lousy patient and my teeth are forever acting up, but the only root canals I have had were fully justified and I still have those teeth, actually no extractions yet :-)

If your teeth are so wonderfully healthy, why do you spend so much time visiting dentists, BTW? The five small cavities could all be filled in one go, that's what I usually have done if there are only minor problems.

Life / City heating system, any ideas on how it works? [15]

Get over it. It's summer. :-)

Life / Top 3 Most Important Things about which polish dentists will LIE to you bigtime [46]


OR maybe your were simply unlucky? I have not had a bad dentist related experience in Poland for the last 30 years or so... And believe you me, I am one of those unfortunates who simply must have work done all the time ;-(

Life / Why do a lot of Polish people stare and why is good personal hygeine shunned? [108]


??? In the LATE nineties? And we're not talking about farmers coming home from the fields, or suchlike? I must have lived on a different planet then.

BTW, this has really made me wonder for some time now - how come most expats are so hoity-toity about Polish hygiene or alleged filth on Polish streets, but never seem to mind (or realise) that where they come from is not all that great either?

For example, to put things bluntly - London public transport smells horrible. Not all the time, not all places, but I'm thinking the Central Line in rush hour or a typical crowded bus. Sweat, vomit, little old ladies unwashed for months, unkempt hair extensions smelling of old hair oil and God knows what else - why are then some of you so surprised to catch a little whiff of BO on Polish public transport? I haven't been to the US, but I can't imagine the NY underground, for example, smelling of roses and violets in rush hour.

Is it the "foreign factor" of these admittedly rather noxious smells that offends some of you so much?
Also, showering twice a day, unless you do manual labour, is not necessary and actually strips your skin of important stuff like friendly bacteria. ;-p