Language / Should I learn both Polish and German [147]

Servus "Huegerl",

recht hast du in dem Fall! Tatsache aber bleibt, dass die Anzahl der englischkundigen Oesterreicher geringer ist, als die der englischkundigen Deutschen, Hollaender oder Skandinavier.

Demgegegenueber kaempfen die Polen immer noch mit der Sprache, ziehen sogar Deutsch als Englisch vor, da sie es halt besser koennen, geben trotzdem zu, Englisch sei "cooler"--::)!!!

Marek

Language / Should I learn both Polish and German [147]

Osiol,
The issue here is not whether speaking a language is impressive. The question becomes more one of maintaining standards for those languages, hereby designated "world languages", in this case making the claim for English, so that they remain at a commensurate level that facilitates, not merely approximates, communication on every plane, in the latter instance, due only to a lack of the necessary vocabulary.

Marek

Language / Should I learn both Polish and German [147]

Hueg!
Which do you find harder, Polish or German? Your German seems quite fluent.

Marek

Language / Pomagac, pomóc [6]

"Pomoc" is also the noun in Polish "help", e.g. "Dziekuje za pomoc." = Thank you for your help.
"Pomagac" is the imperfective verb form.

Marek

Language / Could anyone check my polish? What can i improve? [44]

Hej, Porta!

Naa, snakker du ogsaa norsk? Jeg laeser norsk, men snakker, skriver, forstaar dansk aa svensk.

Hvorfaar laer du dig polsk? Kan du tysk?

Marek

Czesc, Porta!

Od ilu lat uczysz sie jezyka polskiego?
Marek

Language / Could anyone check my polish? What can i improve? [44]

Hejsan, Polson!

Jaha, eet nordiskt spraak till? Det ar en utmaning, tror jag. Hur lange har du lart dig norska och svenska?

Lar du dig ocksaa polska?
Marek

Language / Could anyone check my polish? What can i improve? [44]

Polson,
I learned those languages because it's practical to know related languages, plus, contrary to popular belief, Scandinavians as a rule have a bit too much of the "look Ma, no hands!"-approach to English. They often, though not always, assume, "Hey, it looks easy, we hear enough (frequently low-level US-speakers in contemporary music and movies!!) English everyday, ergo, we can speak English perfectly!"

Far from the case, as I'm sure Porta can readily attest! I've no problem with e.g. Norwegians saying they like chatting in English with foreigners in order to improve or practice their own English skills. All too often though, they arrogantly feel they can speak English better than foreigners could speak Norwegian (hence resisting needed correction). Europeans are sometimes lazy about English particularly, since, unlike Americans, English is considered soooo important, it's often not cultivated. Americans usually have to search far and wide for someone to practice a foreign language with, making the US-language major more serious about improving their foreign-language knowledge.

Marek

Language / Could anyone check my polish? What can i improve? [44]

Hei, Porta!
Ja, det vil jeg gjerne. Hvorfra kommer du saa? Jeg var een gang i Oslo aa det var jo mange aar siden. Jeg ved, at jeg skriver "riksmaal"/"dansk"/ nu, aa ikkje rigtigt "norsk". Men jeg kan forstaa alting, som du har skrivit aa kan laese norske aviser uten problem. Har du ogsaa vaert i Polen? Jeg kenner Szczecin.

Vi snakker mere lite senere.
Ha' det godt!

Marek

Language / Pan/Pani/Panie name variation [9]

Your question in the example "Pani Mario!" concerns the use of the vocative feminine, whereby "Maria" becomes "Mario".

"Pan" is used in simple commands ("Chodz Pan!" = Come!) or indicative sentences ("Tujest Pan Kowalski."= This is Mr. Kowalski. or "Czy pan jest inzenyerem?" = Are you an engineer, sir?)

"Pani" is the female form for the above.
"Panie" is the vocative (seventh case!) masculine, e.g. "Serwus, Panie Witoldzie!" = Greetings, Witold!

The changes are numerous depending of course upon the respective case:

Dzien dobry, Panu Kowalskiemu! = (Dat. masc. "Good evening, Mr. Kowalski!"
Gdzie jest Pan Kowalski? = nom. masc. "Where is Mr. Kowalski?"
To jest ksziaska Pana Kowalskiego. = gen. masc. "Here is Mr. Kowalski's book.
Panie Kowalski, pozdrawiam! voc. masc. = Greetings to you, Mr. Kowalski!

The rest is rather extensive. This is just an intro.
Powodzenia!

Marek

Language / I know Russian language - will it help me learn Polish? [105]

Hi!

Learning a Slavic language such as Russian after having thoroughly learned a related Slavic language, i.e. Polish. makes sense. The question though as to whether it will "help" you to learn the latter, may or may not be the case.

I did the opposite, having learned to read Russian after having already become fluent in Polish. Problems arise if you started to learn Polish as a beginner while not yet being conversant with Russian. Here, the question of false friend vocabulary, differences in pronunciation and even some grammatical variations, enter into the picture. The result then might be that you never actually learn either language completely and from that point continue to be plagued by confusion because both languages were never learned thoroughly enough from the outset.

Marek

Language / Pan/Pani/Panie name variation [9]

Me-thinks!

As to your question about "Dzien dobra!" for a woman as opposed to a man, this NEVER would happen in Polish (save as some sarcastic linguistic joke). The male/female thing in gender changes, occurs solely in the past tenses of verbs, e.g. "Ja spalem" (I was sleeping - masculine) vs. "Ja spalam" for the feminine.

Language / Pan/Pani/Panie name variation [9]

Nothing to add here to what Krzysztof just posted.

Marek

Language / I know Russian language - will it help me learn Polish? [105]

Polson,

Poles can understand spoken Ukrainian (not really so the other way round!) more easily than Russian because of the accent, some grammatical differences and, of course, numerous "false friends" e.g. "pismo/pismo" etc. Ukrainian has many more vocabulary similarities with Polish than with Russian. However, Ukrainian pronunciation is sounds much closer to Russian than to Polish.

Educated Poles can probably READ a Czech newspaper, but are clueless when listening to the same news reported by an announcer on TV. This is not to say, they can understand written Czech fluently by any means, at least what a journalist acquaintance from Prague once told me.

Russians on the other hand can understand both written and spoken Bulgarian as well as Serbian, owing to the simple fact, among others, that the former are also written in the Cyrillic alphabet.

Finally, Poles can understand Russian to a degree with greater facility than in the reverse, certainly in my experience.

Marek

Language / I know Russian language - will it help me learn Polish? [105]

Polson,

Again it's similar to a Portuguese (Brazilian or European!) and a Spanish speaker, a Dutchman and a German, a Dane and a Norwegian etc.

I don't really know Ukrainian. As a modestly "fluent", yet with my disclaimer of not always accurate, Polish speaker, I can recognize plenty of written Ukrainian.

There are though, those ever so tricky false friends.

They abound in some languages. A humorous example between Dutch and German:

UITVAART/Dutch = funeral ("pogrzeb" in Polish, by the way)
vs.
AUSFAHRT/German = highway exit

In Scandinavian languages, namely Swedish, Danish and Norwegian, the differences can lead to erotic jokes!

Marek

Language / I know Russian language - will it help me learn Polish? [105]

....."knulla" in Swedish and "knulle" in Danish DON'T mean the same thing--::):)!!!
For that matter, "knappa" (with a-umlaut) in Swedish vs. "knaebe" in Danish can also get you into hot water.......

Marek

Language / I know Russian language - will it help me learn Polish? [105]

I "speak", i.e. accurately communicate, roughly in half a dozen. I've learned though in total at the very least ten.

Marek

Language / I know Russian language - will it help me learn Polish? [105]

Je puis lire francais, malheureurement je ne parle/"chatte" pas francais tres bien, parceque il y'a beaucoupe des anes passes depuis j'ete en France.

Od czasu do czasu czytam gazete po francusku, ale trwa duzy czas i musze uzywac slownik, bo BRAK MI SLOW!!

Tyvaar drojar det, innan jag kommer att kunna prata med andra manniskor paa franska.

Tja, aber kommt Zeit, kommt Rat!

Marek

Language / I know Russian language - will it help me learn Polish? [105]

Polson,

Yes, I love languages being as I'm a translator as well as a foreign language instructor by vocation.

Marek

Language / I know Russian language - will it help me learn Polish? [105]

Czesc, Panie!

Stary Polak przed kilkoma latami opowiedzial mi 'Kazdy Polak rozumie jezyk rosyjski, ale NIKT nie to mowi.' = ('......chetnie mowi,')

Moze byc tak samo jak w Hollandii i jezyk niemiecki w zwiazku z Druga Wojna Swiatowa, nieprawda?

Co Pan mysli?
Marek

Lady in Red,

By your logic, "we", i.e. Brits and Yanks, should all be learning Russian, Polish, German, Chinese, what have you, like mad so that those groups needn't bother to learn English ---:):)!!

Or have we simply become too lazy as well as smug?

I seem to recall somwhere, that around fifty to sixty odd years ago, Brits were all learning French with a vengeance. In fact, it was common, some say, that at Oxford and other schools, it was common for those who "read law" together to inquire if a fellow classmate spoke French. The common query was "French IS your language, isn't it, old man?"

Than again, just perhaps I'm mistaken.
Marek

Vincent,

"Confused"? Hardly, being as these languages are all so different from one another, despite numerous surface similarities.

Danish may look a lot like Norwegian, but that's where it ends....cold! I practically grew up with German at home, although I never spoke it until I was just a teenager and then pursued it seriously from beginning college onward, right on into grad school. You might even say, I've had total as many years of German as large numbers of university-trained Europeans have had of English.

Marek

Language / I know Russian language - will it help me learn Polish? [105]

Michal,

That's partly my point. The Poles you encountered, mixed ages probably, might have merely pretended not to understand/speak/ Russian as a kind of "knee-jerk" reaction or resentment that may still persist.

I'm only guessing though, since I probably wasn't there when or where you were.
Marek

Language / I know Russian language - will it help me learn Polish? [105]

Osiol,

You're right when you mention getting words mixed up. As I posted several weeks ago, language interference is a major reason for not learning two related languages both at the same time!

Marek

Language / I know Russian language - will it help me learn Polish? [105]

Michal,

Quote: "You can buy all the great books and masterpieces written in English anyway."

Italian proverb - TRADUTORE, TRADITORE (translator, traitor)

Marek

*At very best, a translation is a mere approximation of the given text, something of which non-speakers of the author's native tongue are usually only painfully aware!! It's always a double-edged sword. I say this too as a translator myself.

Language / Accusative and Genitive Case in Polish [6]

If you want to have, see, know etc. a NON-LIVING, i.e INANIMATE masculine male noun, then the accusative endings are used, e.g. "Widze nowy czarny stól." = I see the new black table vs. "Widze mojego nowego madrego psa." = I see my clever new dog, (ANIMATE LIVING masculine noun) whereby in the latter instance, the genitive case endings are used, since a dog of course is living, a table isn't!

Make sense?
Marek

Language / Accusative and Genitive Case in Polish [6]

In English too, a "corpse" was once living, yet is still considered an organism, by definition, having at one time been animate, i.e. having an "anima" or "soul". The Germans term the Polish concept of "animate" vs. "inanimate" BESEELT and UNBESEELT nouns, from "Seele", the German word for "soul"!

Marek

Language / The word KOLEGA [11]

"Kolega" is a masculine animate noun in Polish with a feminine "a" ending, which takes irregular article declensional endings; feminine noun endings, masculine adjective endings, e.g. "Widze tego innego kolegi." = I see that other colleague/co-worker/friend from work etc. It can be a little complicated in the beginning, so I'll spare you the whole dog and pony show here.

"Kolezanka" is female colleague, declined as all feminine nouns of that class, e.g. ksiazka, matka, siatka etc..

Marek

Language / The word KOLEGA [11]

Dzieki, Glowo!!
Marek

News / What sort of fellow is this Donald Tusk anyway? [34]

Odd name his, "Donald Tusk". Is he all Polish, or did his presumably modish parents want him to have a non-Polish first name? "Tusk" sounds almost Cashubian!

Language / I know Russian language - will it help me learn Polish? [105]

Moonmustang,

Gender confusions are only half the problem. The real difficulty comes when actual words have completely different or even slightly different meanings from one language to the other, e.g. "pismo" in Russian = letter, in Polish "pismo" = a written work or opus. The everyday Polish word for "letter" is of course "list", which is not used in Russian! In addition, the accent or stress is not the same, cf. Russian "pisMO" vs. Polish "PISmo".

Just one of numerous examples!!