Language / Bezele and Ciapaci [30]


LOL. Perfect urban underclass.

Life / Teens in Poland, their typical life, schooling, influences, etc. [32]

On the other hand you can argue that the lack of smoking ban also restricts civil liberty of non-smoker (as it makes people be poisoned against their will).

I would agree, that US is in fact non-democratic: they torture prisoners of war, ban Darwin at schools in certain states and persecute Muslims. But Western Europe isn't as bad.

Anyway, in the UK, when you say gay people are all sick and Amnesty International should not be allowed to organize anything at schools, you are considered an idiot, an in Poland, you're considered the defender of traditional values and become the minister of education.

I do not claim that Polish law in general is non-democratic (apart from the concordate), but there is a high pressure from certain groups of people to restrict the others' liberties, even against the law (as in the example of a 14-year-old girl who could not get a legal abortion, because a priest and some pro-life organization followed her to the hospital). And those people are the traditional values defenders.

In fact there is no comparison between the slight liberties restrictions in the UK and restrictions posed by the so-called traditional values. In UK, so far, you can be any sexual orientation you like, dress whatever you like, believe in whatever you like and decide what you want to do in your life.

According to the Polish traditional values, whoever is not Polish straight Roman Catholic living in a nuclear family (with, non-working woman, of course) and who never uses contraception (because it's a sin) and who does not vote for right-wing parties, is evil and should be fought with.

And such views are not popular among well-educated, trendy teens. (And the majority of well-educated people). That groups of the teens who go to good schools, read books, and appear in places such as threatres and cinemas (so, let's say the well-educated teens) consider such views as outdated and inappropriate for a young, intelligent person.

Life / Feminism in Poland:Pro and against [14]

You know, I've read about some 30 branches of feminism... Usually, these ideologies contradict one another, so, could you be more precise?

So far, I can say that feminist interpretation is quite popular in literary criticism in Poland but I guess it is not what you were asking for.

Language / Use of ze and z [25]

"Ze" goes before words, that begin with:
z, s, sz, ż, and ź followed by a consonant:
e.g. ze zbożem, ze skóry, ze szczegółami, ze żbikiem, ze źrebięciem

The rest goes with "z", even if it begins with "z" or "s" (followed by a vowel):
z zamkiem, z samochodem, z chrząszczem
So, it should be "z serem".

And one remark: if "z" precedes a voceless consonant, you should pronounce it as "s", otherwise, you get hypercorrect. Anyway, it's easier. So "z serem" is in fact pronounced as "s serem" or "z krzesłem" sounds "s krzesłem".

Grammatically, "Witam" is in the first person singular (sth. like "I welcome you") and "Witaj" is in second person singular imperative (Welcome).

You can say "witam" to anyone, but "witaj" can be said only to one person and informally. Plural form of "witaj" is "witajcie". If you want the formal version, I'd recommand "Witam Pana(1 male)/Panią (1 female)/ Państwa(>1, both male and female)/ Panie (>1 female)/ Panów (>1 male)".

Yeah, Polish is difficult.... ;)

Language / I know "się" is the only reflexive personal pronoun..but "jak się masz?" [34]

Mr Bubbles:
The constructions without the obvious agent can be made from any verb. This constructions are usually translated into English as either passive, 'should' sentences or 'one does something' sentences and describe things that are usually done or should be done. So, here you go:

- Nie mówi się z pełnymi ustami: One does not speak with one's mouth full (or you shouldn't speak with your mouth full).

- W tym kraju je się psy: Dogs are eaten in this country
- Nie prowadzi się samochodu po pijanemu: One does not drive a car drunk.
-W tym sezonie nosi się jaskrawe kolory: Bright colours are worn this season.
-Naleśniki smaży się z dwóch stron: Pancakes are fried on both sides
So, anyway, "się" hasn't got the meaning of a reflexive pronoun in all of these sentences.

Agent=patient, (or logical reflexive verbs):
czesać się (to comb one's hair), myć się (to wash oneself), zamknąć się (in the meaning: to lock oneself), podrapać się (to scratch oneself), wykąpać się (to have a bath), zanurzyć się (immerse into water), zarazić się (catch up a disease).

All of them are intransitive and with the removal of "się", they become transitive verbs:
czesać klienta (to comb a client's hair), myć samochód (to wash a car), zamknąć złodzieja (to lock up a thef), podrapać kota(to scratch a cat ), wykąpać dziecko (to bathe a baby), zanurzyć wiadro w wodzie (immerse a bucket in water), zarazić kolegę grypą (to make your mate catch up a flue from you).

Language / Cases, Genders, Nominative, Instrumental...WHY? [40]

Why?
Becuase we had no Norman invasion!

Language / I know "się" is the only reflexive personal pronoun..but "jak się masz?" [34]

Oh, yes... I had my mouse broken and couldn't look it up in my dictionary (electronic version). I think I'll never learn those goddamn phrasal verbs ;(

Life / Feminism in Poland:Pro and against [14]

Which channel? I haven't seen her for ages. And her party didn't even enter the parliament.

Life / Cyganski Music [10]

Cygan = Gypsy
Góral = highlander

These are guys wearing traditional highlander clothes singing a Gypsy song in Polish with a bit highlander-style fiddles, '80-sheavy-metal-style guitar solo and Russian-style male choir. Quite a mix-up. And I really don't know why they're wearing those clothes.

Here you've got some typical highlander folk, for comparison:

Life / Teens in Poland, their typical life, schooling, influences, etc. [32]

Actually, I can see the society is getting more and more conservative. I can hear many people noticing the same thing. I don't have to deal with people like that personally (maybe apart from my grandpa), but it's enough to hear the so-called 'average' people talking on the bus, in the queue, or on the TV or watch the political changes in Poland.

Or maybe it's not about the change in people themselves. Some 10 years ago it was appropriate to be modern, open, and tolerant and those benighted ones were kept quiet, on the margins, and didn't have too much influence on anything. Now, I can observe that xenophobic, homophobic and orthodox ones start being taken seriously in the public discourse and those, who used to be just a bunch of cranks, dominate the political and social life.

Unfortunately, what is so-called traditional Polish values (God-Honour-Fatherland, family, religion etc.) is not what it seems. For example the Polish religiousness is usually limited to going to church and crying after the Pope's funeral. An average Polish Catholic doesn't even know what is written in the Bible and does not show too much Christian charity. I knew only one person who was a conscious believer, and, apart from going to church, followed Christian ethics and did not treat her faith superficially (she was a religion teacher BTW)

The claims to let Poles follow their tradition are in fact driven by obscurantism and intolerance. Sorry to write this, but what usually is behind all the claims to defend the tradition and national identity is looking for an excuse to find scapegoats in the society and have a reason to hate.

Polish conservatives are in fact very similar to American Puritan-rooted movements like those who want to teach creationism at school.

Life / WIELORYB AND FEMINISM? [7]

Polonius3, why don't you acquaint yourself with the subject you're writing about?

Life / Teens in Poland, their typical life, schooling, influences, etc. [32]

What else can I think about it hearing arguments such as: "We don't want no EU, 'cause EU will try to invade our Polish culture and heritage and force Poland to introduce gay marriages"

Life / Teens in Poland, their typical life, schooling, influences, etc. [32]


Yeah, right, ten years ago I was sh*tting into nappies and had no TV at home. And I cannot check for what kind of changes this society allowed in Polish law and education.

When I was at primary school, we were going to have sexual education lessons. But, later, the idea was given up, we didn't have it, and sexual education was never introduced to schools.

In 2001 the process of Nieznalska aroused strong controversies and protests against limiting the freedom of speech.
In 2006 people cared less about the idea that homosexuality cannot be discussed at school (Giertych's one) than about uniforms.

When I was a kid, I read about some old grannies and priests who wanted to ban some bands from performing because they were "satanist", and I treated it as absurd humour. But for a few years an MP (Ryszard Nowak) has actually managed to cancel several concerts that he thought "satanist" and made up a list of bands that were supposed to be banned and sent it around to local authorities. The absurd became reality and nobody reacted but a few musicians and listeners. No protests against limiting freedom of speech.

In general, people accept more and more limitations on civil liberties if they follow the conservative values and I am able to perceive it during my lifetime. What would have shocked me five years ago, now happens.

Anyway, I can draw interesting conclusions from comparing TV series made before my birth to the contemporary ones. Soaps are made to cater to wide audiences tastes and the values that positive character follow, mirror the audiences values. Analysing soaps one can see the ideology they actually transfer, which is something the viewers mostly agree with. And when I think about it deeply, I can see either no change or increase in conservativeness of mass-media heroes. I wonder where this came from - I don't remember what people were like in the '80s but their TV series were less conservative.

Life / Teens in Poland, their typical life, schooling, influences, etc. [32]


That's what I'm talking about. About a girl who got a sentence for showing some crap in a gallery.


Alright. An example from yesterday.

I just came back from a concert that did not take place. The reason for it was that a group of devotees didn't like it. The local parish priest made up a petition to the local authorities to cancel the concert and somebody called some electricians to ask them to cut off the electricity to the place where the concert was supposed be (Twierdza Kłodzka).

In effect, people came from all over Poland and from abroad, the bands arrived but... somebody CUT A CABLE (the loss is estimated for 2500 zł). The damage was repaired but the electricity went down again and the whole thing was cancelled.

And here's the proof that I haven't made this story up:
forum.klodzko.net.pl/viewtopic.php?t=756

No, there's no problem. PiS government is gone, so everything came back to normal.

One little question: seeing that you speak at least two languages and are able to use Internet, I assume you belong to the more educated part of Polish society. So my question is: do you have to deal a lot with people such as manual workers, uneducated-unemployed, housewives after primary schools, farmers etc.?

I found the link to the English article about that concert:
reflectionsofdarkness.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3465&Itemid=42

Life / Teens in Poland, their typical life, schooling, influences, etc. [32]

I think that the impression that Polish youth is turning to religion was caused by the mass panic after the death of Karol Wojtyła. But in fact, in was an ephemeral phenomenon. Most teens try to be as trendy and western as possible and being a pious, traditional Catholic is not exactly so cool.

Life / Antisemitism in Poland; is it safe for a Jew to live in Poland? [193]

Adam,
I'd say there's a lot of anti-Semites in Polish society but Polish institutions are very afraid of being accused of anti-Semitism. So, e.g. if you want to organize something connected with Jewish culture and you ask local authorities for help, they will help you lest somebody says they discriminate Jews :)

OK, to be more serious:
Polish Jewish communities have been developing quite well for some time and receive a lot of support from Joint Distribution Commitee. Although so far they are all Orthodox (but somebody wants to set up a Reformed community), most of them seem very supportive to all Jews, regardless of their religious views. They even support non-Jewish people who have something to do with Jews (e.g. they promote Jewish culture). Also, Chabad has been very active for some time and they even founded a yeshiva in Warsaw. Anyway, I think it would be good to contact local Jewish community for support or advice.

Still, there are many anti-Semites in Poland. Last year I learnt about the cases of two Jews I know personally, being beaten up in my city. On the other hand, a few months ago I walked through the £ódź city centre accompanied by four Jewish girls and a rabbi with a beard, sidelocks, kippah, tzitzit etc, it was past 1 a.m., a lot of drunk people going home from parties and the rabbi, to my surprise, didn't even get verbally abused.

I think nobody would pay attention to your necklace, but if you wore a kippah, I'd recommend you to wear some other headgear over it in public. It really depends on who you come across: you may encounter anti-Semites but you may also have to deal with normal people. But you should be careful all the time.

Life / Cyganski Music [10]

Some people are fascinated by Romani culture and there are some Romani music festivals in Poland, but I wouldn't say there are a lot of influences of Romani music on Polish music. Sometimes you can hear some gypsy-inspired folk songs or sung poetry, some stuff of a gypsy girls in love etc. but this appears in the form of a stylization. Even if Romani elements are incorporated into Polish music, they remain an alien element.

Food / Polish Milk, Just not the same [54]

I get fresh milk from a farmer when I'm at my grandma's działka. I just take a bottle, go to the cottage and the farmer pours me some fresh milk into my bottle. Then I boil it, wait for it to cool down and it's delicious.

Love / Getting Engaged to Polish girl, asking permission from her dad? [19]


LMAO. That killed me! ROTFL!!!

OK, not to make fun of Ajb, I give my opinion, i.e. a Polish girl's opinion:
If a Polish guy asked my father for permission to marry me, I'd feel rather offended. As an adult person, it is I and only I who decides about such things. Why would a grown-up women need to ask daddy for permission, even a symbolic one?

If a foreigner did it, I'd forgive him (you must make allowances for foreigners getting strange ideas about our culture...)

For me, the acceptable scenario is: a guy proposes to me, I accept and then, we officially inform our parents about our decision, together. A party, during which the parents of the young couple would meet, would be a very good idea. Of course, I'd rather my parents knew him before they learn we get married.

We have 21st century and nowadays women decide who they marry themselves. They are no longer a property that goes from a father to a husband.

Life / Antisemitism in Poland; is it safe for a Jew to live in Poland? [193]

In fact, I don't know what the motives were. They were attacked by some hooligans in the street (separate cases). It could be coincidence but as well it could be based on racial prejudice - Polish skinheads are quite well-informed.

Life / Antisemitism in Poland; is it safe for a Jew to live in Poland? [193]


It is not sure but it's very probable. I've heard enough anti-Semitic talk from people of various age and background, including my own grandfather. I also got into conflicts by simply stating that I know a lot of Jews and even make some business with them. Also, there have been several cases when young men were beaten up in streets because of having long hair (and thus, betraying our race), so I think ethnic/religious motive is the most probable one if hair can be enough.


That's what Lodz community is like - getting more and more stiff and Orthodox. They can't have proper fun even at Purim. Anyway, I wonder who's gonna use that mikvah (bath)...

Life / Antisemitism in Poland; is it safe for a Jew to live in Poland? [193]


WTF? Always wanted?
Man, read some stuff before you write about problematic and difficult issues. Zionism started in 19th century and has always been controversial among Jews. There are still many Jews who disagree with Zionism and do not accept the state of Israel.

What they always wanted is for the Messiah to come and get their land WITH Messiah, not by secular political actions.
Some Jews got an idea to create a Jewish state, and many Jews went there because they had nowhere to go (like Polish Jews in '68) or they could expect better life there (like Ethiopian Jews). But that doesn't mean that all the Jews in the world support Zionism and the State of Israel.


Maybe they want live more like the Jews lived in Europe before the war? It's much easier in the US than in Israel, you know...


Reading your post I get the impression you don't know too much of the Jewish history.

[quotw]Does nobody ever ask why?[/quote]
Why Jews were often persecuted? I can give you several simple reasons.

1. They were always different.

People usually persecute anyone who is different. Jews didn't have their own land, so wherever they went, they were in the minority.

2. They lived in communities that were isolated from the rest of the society.

The laws of Judaism forces Jews to keep together. If you want to observe the law, you have to live close to a ritual butcher, you have to live close to a mikvah, you can never expect when you need to ask a rabbi about something and if you are a guy, you need at least 9 other guys to pray with every week or every day if you're in mourning. That forced Jews to live together.

And when they lived together, they became isolated from the outside world and gentiles didn't know about them. So, each time someone needed a scapegoat for some reason, Jews were the easiest target. Someone made up a fairy tale about using Christian blood for matzos and people bought it because they didn't know a s.hit about Jews. If something bad happened, Jews were the easiest to blame.

3. They were successful, so they were a dangerous competition.

Keeping together and supporting each other is something deeply rooted in Jewish culture and religion. Instead of wasting time for stupid conflicts (like Poles, for example), they supported each other so, as a group, they were usually more effective. What is more, the emphasis on intellect in Jewish culture is much stronger than in Christian culture, so Jews in effect were more educated. In the Middle Ages, when only the highest classes in Christian society could write and read, the poorly educated Jews (mainly women), were the ones who could read only Yiddish, not Hebrew. The standard was different.

In effect, Jews as a group were smarter and better organized thanks to their culture - so they were envied and hated.

Of course some other reason can be found as well.

Life / "Gdzie jest barszcz?" How do I get talking Polish with real Poles? [16]

"Looking for a Polish native speaker for conversations and language learning on the beginner level. Price under negotiation."

Life / Antisemitism in Poland; is it safe for a Jew to live in Poland? [193]


Yes, with Polish surname, speak Polish and I don't have to emulate being Polish or integrate into Polish society, because I am pure Polish (as far as I know). Just a bit better educated than usual because I have some notion of cultures of other nations.


That's what I'm talking about when mentioning Polish tradition of stupid conflicts. OK, so we had to fight Russian and Prussian and Austria. But was it because bad bad Russians and Teutons kept plotting to get our land? No, before Poland lost its independence, it was weakened by being governed by a bunch of idiots who got into quarrels during sejmiki szlacheckie instead of thinking of their COMMON interest. It were the Poles who weakened Poland and when we realised we should get together and do something about it - it was too late. So our neighbours only took advantage of the mess Polish nobility made. I've been witnessing similiar behaviour in modern Polish society: people concentrate on political conflicts, continue endless rows about the past, teczki a lot of other crap instead of concentrating on moving on with our economy. Czechs, for example, moved much further in economy than Poles, but we started from the same point.

But when I learn about Jewish history, I see they always keep together, not only in a crisis situation (yeah, Jews were NOT in a crisis throughout all their history, contrary to popular opinion)- that's the difference.

And that stuff about Jews supporting only each other and letting no goyim get into their busines... well, from my experience I can tell that if you are Jewish-friendly, Jews suddenly come out to be very goyim-friendly. I have seen many interesting places (e.g. a trip to Germany that I wouldn't have afforded), been to a lot of wonderful parties and events, eaten a lot of delicious food and even earned some money just because I'm a Jewish-friendly gentile. Without those nasty Jews, I wouldn't have it all. And I never had to pretend that I'm Jewish to get it. I just sang their songs.

Life / Antisemitism in Poland; is it safe for a Jew to live in Poland? [193]

LOL. I get free food and accomodation.

Work / Mexican looking for a chance to work as a musician in Poland...... [7]

Salsa is very fashionable now, so I think there's no problem. I wish you good luck!
BTW, what instruments do you play?

Language / The sound of the Polish 'R' [33]

Learning, what's your native language? (If English, than which dialect).

Most foreigners think that Polish r is a trill, just like the Scottish one, but in fact it's a tap. I mean, you can say it like a Scottish 'r' but it would sound strangely emphasized.

It is just identical with the 't' in 'getting' with standard American pronunciation.

Life / Antisemitism in Poland; is it safe for a Jew to live in Poland? [193]

Del boy - you can find it in any school book. Eg. from 1736 - 1763 no single bill was passed in Polish Sejm, because all the sessions were interrupted by liberum veto principle. Do you really think that's good for the state? That we cannot blame such political system for Poland's collapse? It's rather obvious it was a very important factor.

What's 'peasant mentality'? Being friendly to the 'different ones', respecting their culture and accepting their hospitality in return? Then, OK, I can have a peasant mentality. Not going to resign: I'll keep singing Jewish songs, having fun with it, visiting new places and meeting nice people. I like to see very old Jews laughing or crying at hearing songs from their childhood, or from the uprising in the Warsaw ghetto, and I like them to come and thank me and the others I sing with for what we're doing. A handshake with a grateful ghetto survivor means more to me than all the xenophobic bullsh*t I hear about myself.

Travel / Manufaktura Center in Lodz [3]

I hate shopping centres but I must admit Manufaktura is quite OK. It has some kind of atmosphere and interersting architecture. It doesn't feel like a shopping centre, more like a square in some old city.

I go there only when I want to buy something or see a 3d film but when I'm already there, I'm not as disgusted as usually in such places. And as far as shopping is concerned - I think it's the best place for clothes in £ódź (at least it has such reputation), but if you want to buy books or records, it's hopeless. You can get only the easy available stuff.

News / End of voice-over on foreign films in Poland? [19]

I wish they put those subtitles. Translations in Polish TV are usually crappy and I'd rather be able to hear what the dialogues really are.