Use of ze and z

I know generally when you use ze and z just based on whether it sounds right to me but is there any rule?

(Tell me if I get any of these are wrong)
For example:
ze serem (with cheese)
ze mną (with me)
z masłem (with butter)
z pomidorem (with tomato)

Is there some connection between z and od / ze and ode?
For example to say (from Barbara) you'd say 'od Barbary'.
But for yourself (from me) you'd say 'ode mnie'.
(with Barbara) z Barbarą
(with me) ze mną

Also I remember finding out the difference between Witam and Witaj.
I recall one was to a group of people and the other to one person.
Could you also explain which was which.

Dzięki :)

"Ze" goes before words, that begin with:
z, s, sz, ż, and ź followed by a consonant:
e.g. ze zbożem, ze skóry, ze szczegółami, ze żbikiem, ze źrebięciem

The rest goes with "z", even if it begins with "z" or "s" (followed by a vowel):
z zamkiem, z samochodem, z chrząszczem
So, it should be "z serem".

And one remark: if "z" precedes a voceless consonant, you should pronounce it as "s", otherwise, you get hypercorrect. Anyway, it's easier. So "z serem" is in fact pronounced as "s serem" or "z krzesłem" sounds "s krzesłem".

Grammatically, "Witam" is in the first person singular (sth. like "I welcome you") and "Witaj" is in second person singular imperative (Welcome).

You can say "witam" to anyone, but "witaj" can be said only to one person and informally. Plural form of "witaj" is "witajcie". If you want the formal version, I'd recommand "Witam Pana(1 male)/Panią (1 female)/ Państwa(>1, both male and female)/ Panie (>1 female)/ Panów (>1 male)".

Yeah, Polish is difficult.... ;)

In a sentence like 'Zabrałem twoją książkę z tobie.', I guess the translation with 'z' (or perhaps 'od' + 'ciebie??) would be 'I took your book (from you.)-:)

Assistance here, proszę!!

Zabrałem twoją książkę.

Dobrze. Dziękuję -:)

....figure then that '.....książkę od ciebie' would mean '.....the book by you, i.e. 'your book' meaning 'the book you wrote', correct?

book from you


twoja (i.e. napisana przez ciebie) książka

thanx -:)

In English though, a book 'from' you doesn't mean the same thing as 'by' you. Also, Polish may not distinguish between 'of ', 'by' and 'from' as we do in English. But then again, perhaps it does, hey, I'm only a foreigner-:). In German, it's similar, leading to errors when, for example, Germans ask, 'Please, this book is of you?', even, 'This book is from Goethe.' instead of the correct 'by' in both sentences in English, whereas German uses only 'von' to indicate both meanings.

Confusing sometimes. LOL

Merged: Differneces between Polish z and ze

I have some doubts, I don't know when i should use z in sentence, and when ze. Can somebody explain me that. Thanks:)

No idea but there was similar topic...

Edit: https://polishforums.com/archives/2005-2009/language/use-25116/

It has something to do with vowel harmony. Ja jestem z Warszawy-I am from Warsaw but jestem ze Szczecina-I am from Stettin.

Again ja jestem z tobą-I am with you but Ty jesteś ze mną-you are with me.

I am not sure if these are good examples but you should get the general drift. Ze is used wherever you get an uncomfortable build up of consonants together.

many cluster of consonants.

Yes, this is what I meant in effect.

Ze is used when a Pole gets an uncomfortable build up of consonants.

ze zboża
ze mną
ze Szczecina
the above are the uncomforable cluster of consonats
but
z mąki
z tobą
z Warszawy
the above are the comforable clusters if consonats;)
ze makes it easier to pronounce as it is done in other languages eg. an egg, an apple - although here the cosnonant n in an separates the vowels for easier pronunciation

guys guys guys... you'll know how to use 'z' and 'ze' when you start to 'feel' the language and 'think' in that language.... ;)

Or:
z psem
z kmiotem
z rzeką
Just to make things more interesting..hehehe

so I am wrong then.

Maybe somebody else will have the explanation: Osiol?

I still don't entirely get it: polishforums.com/donkey_diary-41_22972_2.html#msg455272

that means I actually have to look this up in the book. It really bugs me now:)

ze szkoły
ze stadionu

ze szkła
ze srebra
ze złota
ze stali

I am thinking that only applies to certain consonats or rather 'sounds"

Why would it be ze psem and not just z psem, the way it is? I have never heard anybody saying ze psem. Again, like gips u nogi, it is simply strange usage of Polish.

it is 'z psem'... where did you see 'ze psem'??


because you don't say it like that.... you say 'kula u nogi'....

Lost your glasses?


You say "noga w gipsie" or "gips na nodze".
You say "palec u nogi"

we still don't have the answer to the main question.

Any takers?

You do not, you say gips u nogi-I read it somewhere in one of your translations.

From the examples provided above, I suggest the following rule:

Use "ze" before heavy consonant clusters (two or three consonants) where the first consonant sounds similar to s or z, i.e. s, ś, sz, z, ź, ż

That will take care of most cases. As to the exceptions, not covered by this rule, such as "ze mną" (with me) you have a choice: learn them by heart or use "z". Above all, don't get discouraged! (there are much worse things in the lingo than the z/ze dilema :P)