News / Poland embraces new effort to fight anti-Semitism [138]

It's just that a number of people make sweeping generalisations about 'the Jews', and I always wonder who they are incorporating...

My great-gandfather was a Polish Jew (father's, fathers, father). I therefore have a "Jewish name" and "Jewish blood", but I don't consider myself Jewish in the slightest, just English/British.

One of my best friends is half-Polish Jewish (Mother's side, both his grand-parents survived Aushwitz), half Irish, but he is considers himself a Brit. He has indulged in some Jewish tradition (as much as Irish tradition), but he is not religious.

Essentially is it religious/ethnic/cultural/political?

Life / Homosexuals in Poland / Hands off (PETITION) [797]


Yes. If people have a natural inclination to do this (i.e. they find men as opposed to women attractive) then it is perfectly natural. Humans have been doing this since... well forever... so why is it unatural?


I'm actually a black, disabled lesbian.


As opposed to telling stories about how a man sticks his penis in womens vagina? It's simple sex education.


It's just a fundamental lack of understanding. I genuinely think people are scared of what they don't know/understand.


The Romans and the Greeks loved it a bit of it.


People who find their own sex attractive? Whether this is manifested through homesexual behaviour is a another thing. I know gay people who are married with children... they are gay, they just don't want to admit it to society.

Why give a sh1t?

News / Poland embraces new effort to fight anti-Semitism [138]


How do you define a Jew?

History / Any apologies about Sikorski's 'murder'? [95]


Once again, I fail to see what leverage Churchill and Roosevelt had against Stalin. The Red Army had all but defeated the Nazis in Europe before The Western Allies even landed at Normandy. Stalin had Eastern Europe in his possession. Even if Eastern Poland hadn't been promised to Stalin at Tehran, it would have taken nothing short of a war with the USSR to wrestle it from him. Stalin held the cards.


True. David Irving is a joke. Nothing he says should be taken seriously as it almost totally agenda driven. Indeed, he should not even be considered a historian.

History / Any apologies about Sikorski's 'murder'? [95]


True, the fact that Churchill and Roosevelt didn't present a united front didn't help matters. Roosevelt (quite incorrectly) assumed that he could use his people skills to 'handle' Stalin. Part of this tactic involved the incessant belittling Churchill, which achieved little.


There fear of a negotiated peace was real. Granted it was unlikely, but few people saw the Nazi-Soviet pact coming. Roosevelt desperately wanted Soviet support in the war with Japan which was the main reason that Stalin was appeased. Stalin was furious about the Allied delay in opening a second front. When it was finally agreed, it didn't represent the kind of leverage required. Stalin played the better hand, but he definitely held the cards.


Maybe, but it's I don't see what Churchill and Roosevelt could have practically done. In reality, the Allies could do nothing to impose their will on Stalin, short of declaring war on the USSR. Operation unthinkable was just that...

News / Poland..wake up to a multicultural world [1059]

My god you are stupid.

For the record, I have got more in common with the Pakistanis at my local cricket club than I will ever have with you.

Love / Love my polish girlfriend alot but under pressure from family [166]

What would you then say to English citizens who don't want Poles in their country because they opnly want to see and talk to Englishmen? Maybe there are American restaurants in Poland, because there are Polish people who enjoy the odd Big Mac or two?

Talk about having your cake and eating it!

Love / Love my polish girlfriend alot but under pressure from family [166]


Spot on. Some of the replies on this thread are a disgrace.

News / Polish engineer beheaded in Pakistan. [347]


Nelson Mandela was a known terrorist.


Known by who? Please tell.

I was making the point that the notion of a terrorist is totally subjective. But you would have understood that if you weren't such a simpleton.

As you were.

News / Polish engineer beheaded in Pakistan. [347]


I'll tell Nelson Mandela to watch his back then.

History / Any apologies about Sikorski's 'murder'? [95]


Amen.


Absolute rubbish.

It's funny how Britain's 'betrayal' seems to rank higher on the list of Polish grievances than Nazi and Soviet occupation.

History / Any apologies about Sikorski's 'murder'? [95]


I didn't say you did, just refer to the definitions I provided you:

1. the control or governing influence of a nation over a dependent country, territory, or people.
2. the system or policy by which a nation maintains or advocates such control or influence.

I think that pretty much applies.

History / Any apologies about Sikorski's 'murder'? [95]


Firstly, you can stop licking the windows of your fish tank, visit dictionary.com and check out the definition of colonialism. Then you can do some reading on the US motives in Vietnam and admit you are complete tool.

Thank me later.

Colonialism:

1. the control or governing influence of a nation over a dependent country, territory, or people.
2. the system or policy by which a nation maintains or advocates such control or influence.
3. the state or condition of being colonial.
4. an idea, custom, or practice peculiar to a colony.

History / Any apologies about Sikorski's 'murder'? [95]


He was elected to represent US citizens. Why would/should he have faced up to Stalin, and risked American lives for Polish independence?

History / Any apologies about Sikorski's 'murder'? [95]


My favourite president. I got to vote in the Smithsonian :)


People in glass houses.... or should I say fish tanks?

UK, Ireland / Here comes the Anti-Immigration marches.... [114]


Well put. Some people seem to think they have the right to this way of life. How can people who have enjoyed the trappings of cheap consumer goods now moan that their jobs are being taken for foreigners, who are better qualified than them? You can't have it both ways!

Surely people can see the irony of someone enjoying the benefits of employing a foreign cleaner on minimum wage, then moaning when a foreigner comes along and does their job more efficiently than them. Once again, you can't have it both ways!


I believe that this is actually illegal. So much for Gordon Brown's British jobs for British workers!!


Then you have to make sure you have the skills to ensure that your are employable in the country you wish to reside. It's a free market I'm afraid. Why should the British be so scared of economic mobility? Probably because they don't have the skills required to work elsewhere. If someone can do my job better then me, then I can't expect to be employed.

It is something I have always admired about the Polish - the willingness to look elsewhere for work, to go where they can utilise their skills to optimise their income/way of life.


You say that, but I doubt it. Everyone wants the more cost effective option. Given the choice between two products of equal quality, you would take the cheaper one all day. It's a no brainer.

What we should be asking, is why has this Italian firm has employed foreign workers as opposed to British? From what I have read, they are being paid the same but are more specialised in the field. If this is the case, we should be aiming to improve the mechanisms for educating our workforce, and giving them the skills required to compete in the global employment market.

Otherwise, British workers will be left behind. It's the global economy, get used to it.

UK, Ireland / TRUTH AND DELUSION ABOUT POLES IN UK [65]


Finally, the root of your hatred and prejudice has come to light.


Clear from what? When was the last time you were here, and for how long?


ShelleyS?

UK, Ireland / ARE BRITS MEANER AND LESS HOSPITABLE THAN POLES? [79]

The 'Round system' has its advantages and disadvantages.

If someone does not wish to conform to this system whilst among people for whom it is traditional (from reading this thread it would appear as though the concept is peculiar to the UK), then they should simply refuse a drink when asked what they want.

Personally, I don't understand why anyone would want to queue up at a crowded bar numerous times during a night out, when they could just do it once or twice!


Which often happens to be in the Weatherspoons, before you move on to the more expensive bar down the road ;)

History / Poland Betrayed in WW2 [243]


That is indeed what happened. GCSE level history however, only deals with the basics.

People who have studied history at A-Level, undergraduate level or higher, are likely to have a far more enlightened view on the politics involved.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


Yet the European powers were allowed to keep their colonies, as were the USSR. The Atlantic Charter therefore did not constitute a US obligation to Poland.

So we've established that the US had no obligation to ensure Polish sovereignty, and that the British most certainly had no means.

So the notion of betrayal centres on verbal promises made to a a close and long standing ally? I don't think Britain viewed Poland this way!!

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


Exactly, what made Poland so special?

What about the Indo-chinese who fought against Japan and were then handed straight back to their former colonial masters. If the US and Britain really believed in enforcing the Atlantic Charter, they would have supported the Vietminh and not allowed France to regain control of their colony. Indochina was the jewel of the French empire, and France had hopelessly failed to prtoect it from the Japanese, yet were actvely aided by Britain and the US in regaining a foothold there!! Compared with negotiating with Stalin, ensuring a free Indochina would have been a walk in the park for Britain and the US. But they didn't do it? Why? Maybe De Gaulle's tiny violin pulled the heart strings so much, that the US and Britain chose to ignore their 1941 committment to new world self determination? Or maybe they just didn't give a f*ck?

The Atlantic Charter merely formalised the changing of the guard from Britain to the US as the world's leading superpower. It was nothing more, and most certainly not a committment to take on Stalin for the sake of Polish independence.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


Stalin would have told them where to go, and they would have opened the second front regardless.

Imo, it had very little to do with self determination. If it was that important to FDR, surely he would have pressed for Polish sovereignty? Regardless of FDR's motives, Stalin was viewed as more important to US interests (both long and short term) than a free Poland. Britain's policy was in line with this (as per). Churchill can not be blamed for not enforcing his will on Stalin. He did not have the means nor support from the US. Can the US be blamed? Possibly, but what did they owe Poland?

I doubt anything short of a military conflict with Stalin would have liberated Poland. Regardless of the role that Poland had played in fighting Nazi Germany, Britain and the US were simply not prepared to push. Stalin was a substantially more important ally.

Poland weren't the only ones. The Vietminh (supported by the US) fought the Japanese in Indochina during WW2, and what did they get for their troubles? Handed straight back to the French!! The rest as they say, is history.

Foreign policy, in the main, is determined by self interest.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


From what I have read on Yalta, it would appear that any such attempts to impose allied will on Stalin, were made by Churchill and dismissed by Roosevelt. Why then is Britain portrayed (by some) as the betrayer? Even if Chuchill had the desire to liberate Poland, he most certainly did not have the means, without US support. That is undeniable.

Why was Roosevelt so eager to placate Stalin? Maybe it was because courting Soviet support in the ongoing brutal conflict with Japan, was a more important objective than liberating Poland? Thus is the self-serving nature of International diplomacy.

Betrayal is a subjective notion, highlighted by the fact that it is defined differently in Polish and English.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


Britain wanted to avoid war at all costs. The treaty was signed as a deterrent to Hitler, not a declaration of undying love and brotherhood towards Poland. Britain was using Poland, just as Poland was using Britain. A relationship forged due to common goals, not because Britain or Poland owed each other anything. Why don't you check out some of Neville Chamberlain's quotes regarding the Polish corridor for an indication of how important Poland was to Britain.

You have rather a rosy view of international politics!

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


Because most of it is pure fantasy.


But you only hold Britain responsible? This despite the fact that only the USA had any power to do so?


Made 'countryless' and betrayed by the very country he chose to make his home. Strange.


Now now Kilkline, it would take an ounce of intelligence to distinguish between the two. You're asking a bit much there.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


Jesus wept.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


I know such people. People who survived Auschwitz, re-started their lives in England and were welcomed. They have a right to feel bitter, but they don't feel the need to blame Britain. Their country was invaded by Germany and Russia. They suffered and were unable/did not want to return to Poland. Their families suffered at the hands of Hitler and Stalin:

bbc.co.uk/radio4/hometruths/20050117_polish_jo.shtml
(My mother's family)

hmd.org.uk/resources/item/119
(My best friend's grandmother)

Britain was not in a position to guarantee Polish sovereignty. Why then, should Britain be blamed for the 50 years that Poland spent at the hands of communist Russia? The notion of betrayal is an issue of war time politics, and should be condemned to a footnote in history, not put at the forefront! The very fact that Britain chose to enter a war and sacrificed British lives following the invasion of Poland seems to be overlooked by many. I recognise the role played by the Polish in fighting Nazi Germany, and my respect is forever with them. The notion that they were fighting for Britain (or others) is however laughable.

What if Churchill had kept to his word, stood up to Stalin and demanded Polish sovereignty? Would it have changed anything? No. So if Poland's woes were not caused by this political betrayal, it's hardly worth placing such importance on it. What if Churchill had the political might to put operation unthinkable in to action? Would I have wanted my grandparents to fight The Red Army in a potentially brutal war to free Poland. Damn right I wouldn't. It's easy to talk about betrayal without considering the implications of Britain 'keeping it's word', and saving Poland. Poland was royally bent over, blaming Britain for this is quite simply bizarre.

CHURCHILL HAD NO INFLUENCE OVER STALIN


What I object to most, is a xenophobe starting a thread to have a pop at a nation he clearly despises. Still, if someone wants to out themselves as a bigot on a forum, then I guess it is their right to do so. I don't like to generalise, but is is an inferiority complex I have noticed in a number of Australians. Maybe it's because of where their head of state resides.


Why do you choose to reside in a country that betrayed Poland, and left them to Stalin?

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


You confuse anger with pity. I have come across enough xenophobes, not to let it bother me. Your Pomgolian rant just made you look like a sad bitter fool, why should I care? It does amuse me that you are trying to fight the 'moral cause' for a country you can't even be bothered to visit. Tally ho and all that ;)

Still, you have got what you want from this thread. Well done.

And I would prefer it if you didn't misquote me. I have never made comments regarding lighting candles on graves.

That is all.

News / What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? [1108]


You'd get better nourishment from eating the toy.

History / Poland Betrayed in WW2 [243]


It was Czechoslovakia who were bent over to the greatest degree. For some reason, this isn't really discussed on this forum. Not sure why. Maybe someone could enlighten me?