Crow
24 Oct 2009
History / Serbian contribution to Poland's independance after WWI [70]
it already started
there's a lingering risk that Western countries will use us to plug their demographic hole
it already started
Crow
24 Oct 2009
History / Serbian contribution to Poland's independance after WWI [70]
southern. But, something interesting already happening
i myself don`t believe in Slavic unity inside of EU, at least not on the long run. But on the short run i do believe in some sort of Slavic authonomy in EU. Later, for sure, Slavs would recognoze new opportunities and grabbed the chance for independance. They would have all reasons to escape from EU
i had expiriance and intersting talks with bussines people from Slavic world, from Slovakia, Czech Rep. Poland, Bulgaria. Bussines people from Slavic countries realy tend to develop closer contacts with bussnis people from Slavic world. It is realty because we are all aware of competition. We are aware that we have bater chances to strenghten our bussines in Slavic world. Slavic bussines is vulnerable on presure from competition that coming from so called west. To say, our economies are still less competitive. That`s the primary reson that force us to choose to cooperate with other Slavs, on the first place and if it is just possible. Then, when you establish contacts (stryctly enforced by the economic laws), you learn after a while (in talks and personal contacts) that bussines people fom Slavic countries have much more in common. Common pollitical ideas, common enemies thru history.
My personal achievement on the field of mutual Slavic cooperation was to halp in establishing contasts between two Slovakian companies that operates in Serbia. i was aware of production/trade program of both companies and i conneceted them. Then, when they start to work, i connected them with one interesting Slovenian bussines. They now work and prosper. That was my personal contribution. Those are things that makes me happy, among else.
Yes,but they are the main financial contributors,the UK being a special case with special treatment.You cannot form an alliance against your borrowers.
southern. But, something interesting already happening
i myself don`t believe in Slavic unity inside of EU, at least not on the long run. But on the short run i do believe in some sort of Slavic authonomy in EU. Later, for sure, Slavs would recognoze new opportunities and grabbed the chance for independance. They would have all reasons to escape from EU
i had expiriance and intersting talks with bussines people from Slavic world, from Slovakia, Czech Rep. Poland, Bulgaria. Bussines people from Slavic countries realy tend to develop closer contacts with bussnis people from Slavic world. It is realty because we are all aware of competition. We are aware that we have bater chances to strenghten our bussines in Slavic world. Slavic bussines is vulnerable on presure from competition that coming from so called west. To say, our economies are still less competitive. That`s the primary reson that force us to choose to cooperate with other Slavs, on the first place and if it is just possible. Then, when you establish contacts (stryctly enforced by the economic laws), you learn after a while (in talks and personal contacts) that bussines people fom Slavic countries have much more in common. Common pollitical ideas, common enemies thru history.
My personal achievement on the field of mutual Slavic cooperation was to halp in establishing contasts between two Slovakian companies that operates in Serbia. i was aware of production/trade program of both companies and i conneceted them. Then, when they start to work, i connected them with one interesting Slovenian bussines. They now work and prosper. That was my personal contribution. Those are things that makes me happy, among else.
Crow
24 Oct 2009
News / Does Poland benefit from an Eastern, Western, or individualistic alliedship? [40]
i don`t divide people by race. What i presented are civilizations
take NON-SLAVIC EUROPEAN POPULATION that i mentioned above, just for example. God knows that those aren`t exclusively whites
why do you keep wanting to divide people by race. Dont do that Crow my brate... it will not help anything... rather you will be pushed out of the ocean of love, mercy and unity...just as a dead fish from a living Ocean!
i don`t divide people by race. What i presented are civilizations
take NON-SLAVIC EUROPEAN POPULATION that i mentioned above, just for example. God knows that those aren`t exclusively whites
Crow
23 Oct 2009
History / Serbian contribution to Poland's independance after WWI [70]
here is one interesting info for you man
Do you know that first Serbian Chetniks in history were formed under supervision of Poles? Yes, Chetniks were organized by the rules and codes of Polish guerila warfare. Rules of the warfare in Polish were translated on Serbian language by Mateja Ban (influental Catholic Serb from Dubrovnik- BDW, Ban Mateja was already mentined in this thread, see post #6). It was in 19 century.
Source:
ISTORIJA ČETNIČKOG POKRETA
[History of the Chetnik movement]
vudu.dzaba.com/rich_text_7.html
southern
here is one interesting info for you man
Do you know that first Serbian Chetniks in history were formed under supervision of Poles? Yes, Chetniks were organized by the rules and codes of Polish guerila warfare. Rules of the warfare in Polish were translated on Serbian language by Mateja Ban (influental Catholic Serb from Dubrovnik- BDW, Ban Mateja was already mentined in this thread, see post #6). It was in 19 century.
Source:
ISTORIJA ČETNIČKOG POKRETA
[History of the Chetnik movement]
vudu.dzaba.com/rich_text_7.html
Crow
23 Oct 2009
History / Serbian contribution to Poland's independance after WWI [70]
i hope you are a woman. Honestly
since when i am obliged to answering. since i am Serb?
well, we are not on the level of tribes. Slavic integrations, Slavic unity, Slavic Confederation, Slavic alliance,... are more appropriate terms to me
BLEB
will haunt Crow until
i hope you are a woman. Honestly
definitive answer to my previous question
since when i am obliged to answering. since i am Serb?
History has proven that there is no such thing as Slavic Brotherhood
well, we are not on the level of tribes. Slavic integrations, Slavic unity, Slavic Confederation, Slavic alliance,... are more appropriate terms to me
Nice thought, nice idea, but marxism is a good idea in basic as well, but ppl are ppl, so it will never work.
BLEB
Crow
23 Oct 2009
History / Serbian contribution to Poland's independance after WWI [70]
your wish is command to me
?
but listen,... forget
So you're gonna stop posting then? Good :)
your wish is command to me
This is not the time anymore to post nationalistic stuff. Time to move on to the future and no more nonsense of Slavic Brotherhood et al.
?
but listen,... forget
Crow
23 Oct 2009
History / Serbian contribution to Poland's independance after WWI [70]
ok
Don't be such an ignorant fool, ok?
ok
Crow
23 Oct 2009
News / Does Poland benefit from an Eastern, Western, or individualistic alliedship? [40]
this categorization isn`t realistic.
it shoud be >>> [if we speak of Europe, Eurasia and Asia]
CHINESE AND MONGOLIAN POPULATION
INDIAN POPULATION
[optionaly] REST OF ASIAN POPULATION
SLAVIC EUROPEAN-EURASIAN POPULATION
NON-SLAVIC EUROPEAN POPULATION
i believe that no. of total Slavic (Europe and Eurasia) population must be at arround of 350 mil.
ASIA POPULATION: 4,050,404,000
EUROPE POPULATION: 731,000,000
EUROPE POPULATION: 731,000,000
this categorization isn`t realistic.
it shoud be >>> [if we speak of Europe, Eurasia and Asia]
CHINESE AND MONGOLIAN POPULATION
INDIAN POPULATION
[optionaly] REST OF ASIAN POPULATION
SLAVIC EUROPEAN-EURASIAN POPULATION
NON-SLAVIC EUROPEAN POPULATION
i believe that no. of total Slavic (Europe and Eurasia) population must be at arround of 350 mil.
Crow
23 Oct 2009
History / Serbian contribution to Poland's independance after WWI [70]
it was their right. Till the end of time, fight for freedom would be respected as noble deed
all in all, Austo-Hungaria was full of internal antagonisms. i would say `divide and conquer` policy was key toll of ruling Germanics
Austro-Hungarian experiment was tolerated by Slavic world because of Turkish treat. A-H was seen as leser evil
Germanics as Germanics grabbed the opportunity and imposed policy of germanization of Slavic majority. Slavs as Slavs, responded with resistance. Combined effects of these two reasons in combination with absolute incompetence of Habsburgs effectively canceled Austro-Hungaria.
if anyone in Serbian (and Slavic in general) history underestimated Serbs/Slavs those were Habsburgs. Thank God for that. Same way as Germanics were efficient and fast to impose Germanization on Slavs when they had opportunity, Slavs were efficient and fast to get rid of their oppresores when they sought first chance.
yes. That was real histeria when they spot how Serbs removing bloody pedestal of Habsburg`s rule
see this >>>
Slide to War in Europe, 1911 to 1914
fsmitha.com/h2/ch04.htm
but, Pope din`t support Austro-Hungarian hawks in their war preparations for conquest on Serbia >>>
Serbs burned Austrohungary.
it was their right. Till the end of time, fight for freedom would be respected as noble deed
Austrohungary was based on mutual fear,fear of the Czechs for Sudeten,fear of the Austrians for Germans,fear of the Croats for Serbs,fear of Ukrainians for Poles,fear of Slovaks for Czechs and fear of Hungarians for Russians. So all these fearful nations formed Austrohungary a loose entity of slavic nations under germanic control where everyone was suspicious but tolerant for the other.
all in all, Austo-Hungaria was full of internal antagonisms. i would say `divide and conquer` policy was key toll of ruling Germanics
Austrohungarian experiment was successful till panslavists decided to destroy it and pangermanists saw there a new opportunity.
Austro-Hungarian experiment was tolerated by Slavic world because of Turkish treat. A-H was seen as leser evil
Germanics as Germanics grabbed the opportunity and imposed policy of germanization of Slavic majority. Slavs as Slavs, responded with resistance. Combined effects of these two reasons in combination with absolute incompetence of Habsburgs effectively canceled Austro-Hungaria.
What puzzles me is the naivity of Hambsburgs who thought they could annex Serbia the classical way.
if anyone in Serbian (and Slavic in general) history underestimated Serbs/Slavs those were Habsburgs. Thank God for that. Same way as Germanics were efficient and fast to impose Germanization on Slavs when they had opportunity, Slavs were efficient and fast to get rid of their oppresores when they sought first chance.
I imagine their faces after the death of the Archiduke.
yes. That was real histeria when they spot how Serbs removing bloody pedestal of Habsburg`s rule
see this >>>
Slide to War in Europe, 1911 to 1914
fsmitha.com/h2/ch04.htm
The hawks in Austria-Hungary had an ally in Germany's supreme army commander, von Moltke, who wrote his Austrian counterpart that a war between "Germandom" (which included German Austrians) and "Slavdom" (the Russians and Serbs) was inevitable. Von Moltke believed that "eternal peace" was a "pipe dream" and that if war were inevitable it would be best to launch it at a most opportune time.
For days people in Vienna paraded, carrying flags and portraits of Franz Joseph and singing patriotic songs. People chanted "God protect our king, our land!" And people chanted "death to Serbs" and "Serb dogs must die!" The archbishop of Vienna, Cardinal Piffl, gave voice to what many saw as a holy crusade. He proclaimed that it was the voice of God that spoke through the roar of Austria-Hungary's guns. He called on his flock to go forward in happiness and in confidence to attack the enemies of God.
but, Pope din`t support Austro-Hungarian hawks in their war preparations for conquest on Serbia >>>
Pope Pius X took a different approach. The ambassador from Austria asked him to bless the Habsburg armies, and the Pope refused saying he blessed peace.
Crow
23 Oct 2009
News / Does Poland benefit from an Eastern, Western, or individualistic alliedship? [40]
let us see trends
Europe's Dirty Secret, by Rick Rozoff (3-27-00)
Does Poland benefit from an Eastern, Western, or individualistic alliedship?
let us see trends
Europe's Dirty Secret, by Rick Rozoff (3-27-00)
Anti-Slavic prejudice - more properly, racism - is a dirty secret in European history.
It reached its most monstrous level of refinement with Hitler, who both 'scientifically' codified and savagely implemented this prevailing view of Slavs as Untermenschen - subhumans. Fifty million human beings lost their lives in World War Two, the majority of them Slavs. Estimates of Soviet dead, which include Jews, Roma and other non-Slav minorities, but which were overwhelmingly Slavic, range as high as thirty million. Additionally, millions of Serbs, Poles and other Slavs were killed in battle or along with Jews and others in death camps.
A resumption, an hysterical revival, of this racism has been dredged up since the beginning of the break up of Yugoslavia in 1991. Often the pronouncements of Western government and media spokespeople are a barely disguised recycling of Nazi race propaganda from the 1930s and 40s. As one British journalist put it a few months ago, this campaign of collective dehumanization (another trick infamously practiced by Hitler, Rosenberg, Goebbels and company) has led to the word Slav being synonymous with criminal. Or subhuman. Or inherently (read: racially) inferior, lazy, dishonest, violent people who deserve all the misery, disease, bombing and eventual physical elimination NATO and IMF/World Bank policies have brought on them.
Crow
22 Oct 2009
History / Serbian contribution to Poland's independance after WWI [70]
this thread is about Poland`s Politics and History. What you suggest- canceletion of this section of forum?
Why don`t you start some futuristic thread then? Why you actualy post in this section?
this thread is about Poland`s Politics and History. What you suggest- canceletion of this section of forum?
Why don`t you start some futuristic thread then? Why you actualy post in this section?
Crow
22 Oct 2009
History / Serbian contribution to Poland's independance after WWI [70]
no, i never said that. WWI would happen anyway, with Poles and Serbs or without them. But France, Britain and USA actualy didn`t care much of Polish-Serbian situation and destruction of A-H because of freedom for Slavs wasn`t their agenda. So, Poles and Serbs needed to take care of itself. They pledged to push things in positive dirrection for Slavic cause in general- in central Europe, south-eastern Europe and on Balkan.
In this thread one can learn:
1. that Poles and Serbs coordinated in order to achieve their freedom and independance, from Austro-Hungaria that was oppressor/occupator to both- Poles and to many other Slavs.
2. that Poles and Serbs coordinated in order to neutralize Russian pressure and dictate and in Polish case- oppression/occupation
3. that Poles and Serbs in their coordination were above Catholic-Orthodox antagonisms. They presented themselves as freedom loving people, as good Christians and good Slavs. Their solidarity was based on mutual interests and their mutual trust was based on historical confidence in each others. Their subordination was Pan-Slavic and Sarmatian thing.
4. that Russia sacraficed itself on the behalf of Serbs but actualy also on the behalf of all other Slavs that were oppresed by hostile non-Slavs.
no, i never said that. WWI would happen anyway, with Poles and Serbs or without them. But France, Britain and USA actualy didn`t care much of Polish-Serbian situation and destruction of A-H because of freedom for Slavs wasn`t their agenda. So, Poles and Serbs needed to take care of itself. They pledged to push things in positive dirrection for Slavic cause in general- in central Europe, south-eastern Europe and on Balkan.
In this thread one can learn:
1. that Poles and Serbs coordinated in order to achieve their freedom and independance, from Austro-Hungaria that was oppressor/occupator to both- Poles and to many other Slavs.
2. that Poles and Serbs coordinated in order to neutralize Russian pressure and dictate and in Polish case- oppression/occupation
3. that Poles and Serbs in their coordination were above Catholic-Orthodox antagonisms. They presented themselves as freedom loving people, as good Christians and good Slavs. Their solidarity was based on mutual interests and their mutual trust was based on historical confidence in each others. Their subordination was Pan-Slavic and Sarmatian thing.
4. that Russia sacraficed itself on the behalf of Serbs but actualy also on the behalf of all other Slavs that were oppresed by hostile non-Slavs.
Crow
21 Oct 2009
History / Serbian contribution to Poland's independance after WWI [70]
In 19 century, in a time when Poles were oppresed by Russia and Austro-Hungaria, Poles desperetly needed Serbian support, no matter that they were aware of tragic Serbian situation.
Serbia was treaten by Ottoman Turkish and Austro-Hungarian Empires. In a same time Serbian partners- USA, Britain and France tratened Serbia too after they declared Serbian new constitution too liberal. Paragraph of Serbian constutution- ``even slave if come on land of Serbs is slave no more`` represent first diplomatic Serbian incident with so called west. Serious pressure was issued on Serbia to remove that `liberal` paragraph from its constitution. Also, very early USA, Britain and France took part in partition of Balkan on their zones of influence. It was also time of strong Russian pressure on Serbia that Serbia needs to obey to Russian dictate.
Situation was more then complicated. From one side, Russia was honest and serious Serbian partner on Balkan in war against Turks and, on the other side, Russia oppresed Slavic West- what was in contradiction with Serbian pollitical doctrine. Russia also defended Serbia from Austro-Hungarian and German diplomatic pressure. Serbia desperetly needed British, Franch, Russian and USA support to boost its develpment after liberation from Turkish occupation (part of territoeis was still under Turkish rule). After all, Serbia needed European powers on its side but it wasn`t easy to get support. Serbs as Serbs had their particular ideas about freedom of Slavs and that was biggest taboo in Europe.
In such a environment, Poles aririved and urged Serbian elite to support their rightfull intentions to achieve independance. On the fundaments of `Sarmatian connection` Poles and Serbs made a deal... and, things were moved...
Source: DUŠAN T. BATAKOVIĆ, BELGRADE IN THE NINETEENTH CENTURY
A HISTORICAL SURVEY
batakovic.com/belgrade19thcent.html
In 19 century, in a time when Poles were oppresed by Russia and Austro-Hungaria, Poles desperetly needed Serbian support, no matter that they were aware of tragic Serbian situation.
Serbia was treaten by Ottoman Turkish and Austro-Hungarian Empires. In a same time Serbian partners- USA, Britain and France tratened Serbia too after they declared Serbian new constitution too liberal. Paragraph of Serbian constutution- ``even slave if come on land of Serbs is slave no more`` represent first diplomatic Serbian incident with so called west. Serious pressure was issued on Serbia to remove that `liberal` paragraph from its constitution. Also, very early USA, Britain and France took part in partition of Balkan on their zones of influence. It was also time of strong Russian pressure on Serbia that Serbia needs to obey to Russian dictate.
Situation was more then complicated. From one side, Russia was honest and serious Serbian partner on Balkan in war against Turks and, on the other side, Russia oppresed Slavic West- what was in contradiction with Serbian pollitical doctrine. Russia also defended Serbia from Austro-Hungarian and German diplomatic pressure. Serbia desperetly needed British, Franch, Russian and USA support to boost its develpment after liberation from Turkish occupation (part of territoeis was still under Turkish rule). After all, Serbia needed European powers on its side but it wasn`t easy to get support. Serbs as Serbs had their particular ideas about freedom of Slavs and that was biggest taboo in Europe.
In such a environment, Poles aririved and urged Serbian elite to support their rightfull intentions to achieve independance. On the fundaments of `Sarmatian connection` Poles and Serbs made a deal... and, things were moved...
The leading figure among the Constitutionalists was Ilija Garašanin, the first modern statesman of Serbia, author of a famous memorandum on foreign policy, called Naèertantije (Draft). In cooperation with Paris-based Polish émigrés led by Prince Adam Czartoryski, who were looking for an ally in the Balkan to continue their struggle against the Habsburgs and Russians, Ilija Garašanin in 1844 elaborated a detailed plan that would make Serbia the centre of a movement for unifying Serbs and other South Slavs into a large state under the Karadjordjević realm. Belgrade became the centre of a Pan-Slavic agitation, attracting patriots from Bosnia and Croatia.
[b]The first counsellor of Garašanin was Matija Ban from Dubrovnik (Ragusa) a poet and a playwright, professor of French at Belgrade High School. As a leading intellectual of the Constitutionalist rule, Matija Ban, a Roman Catholic Serb from Dubrovnik, who gave his name to a large district of today's Belgrade (Banovo brdo), was trying to instil a classical spirit in modern Serbian literature that would soon be forgotten in the face of the Romantic poetry of younger generations.
Source: DUŠAN T. BATAKOVIĆ, BELGRADE IN THE NINETEENTH CENTURY
A HISTORICAL SURVEY
batakovic.com/belgrade19thcent.html
Crow
21 Oct 2009
History / Serbian contribution to Poland's independance after WWI [70]
well, not exclusively Poland
partly true. Only partly. This comment is proof that you aren`t familiar with historical facts but anyway entering in disscusions. Or you maybe just provoke
A-H was neighbourhood to Serbia but, also A-H annexed Bosnia-Herzegovina, Dalmatia, Dubrovnik and Croatia. Yes, before that nor Dalmatia, nor Dubrovnik, nor Slavonia were integral part of Croatia. That`s how started process of croatization of the Catholic and Orthodox Serbs of all those regions and all that under German supervision.
Then, local native Serbs reacted and resisted to A-H. A-H increased oppresion to the climax that provoced Serbian anwer in Sarajevo when archduke was assasinated.
You see, Austro-Hungaria was neighbourhood to Serbia but also A-H dirrectly annexed Serbian lands, territories populated with Serbs- Bosnia, Herzegovina, Dubrovnik, Dalmatia. BDW, those territores were previously liberated from Ottoman Turkish rule on the first place by Serbian and Russian efforts. Even Poles had their role in it and many died on the behalf of Serbs. But anyway, A-H took it for itself simple by annexion supported by other European and world powers.
So, Serbia as only free Serbian land on Balkan was obliged to support other Serbs, both- those under A-H rule and those still under Turkish rule. Not to mention that A-H showed intentions to anex even Serbia. They wanted to establish border with Turks and to split Serbian lands among themselves. That was mistake. Serbs took whole issue seriously and screwd both- Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman Empires.
Let it be said here that Serbian Entente allay partners- Britain and France had misunderstandings with A-H and Turks but here in the region, on Balkan, they wanted status quo. They wanted to see how Austrians and Turks rule over native Slavs. That`s what they wanted. It was Serbians solely who dealt cathastrophic charge into Austrian and Turkish joke. On the first place, Poles helped, Polish inteligentsia and fighters (in Bosnia) and, of course Russians arrived.
All in all, A-H oppresed native Serbs on territories that previously annexed and also provoked Serbia. Serbs reacted, what was their natural right.
primary Serbian goal was to save itself from A-H and Turkish rule and treat. Then, Serbian goal becomes to support resistance movements of Serbs in A-H and Turkish Empires. Hand in hand with it Serbia supported resistance movements in other Slavic countries (Cezska, Slovakia,...).
On the end, Serbia pledge to liberate all Balkan Slavs and losing 1/3 of its entire population in WWI managed that. Serbian army reached almost Wienna while pursued Austrians who were in panic. Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Herzegovina, Dalmatia, Dubrovnik, Kosovo, Malesia (northern Albania), Macedonia were liberated dirrectly by Serbian military involvement. In battle of Kumanovo, Serbs crashed last attampt of Ottoman Empire to survive as Europen power. Serbia even innitiated rebellion against Turks in Greece and Bulgaria and supported their resistance movements.
On the end, Yugoslavia was created as Serbs and Poles planned.
She didn't cause all the stirrings with an independent Poland in mind.
well, not exclusively Poland
it was indirectly Serbia was indeed sickening the neighbourhood for Slav independence
partly true. Only partly. This comment is proof that you aren`t familiar with historical facts but anyway entering in disscusions. Or you maybe just provoke
A-H was neighbourhood to Serbia but, also A-H annexed Bosnia-Herzegovina, Dalmatia, Dubrovnik and Croatia. Yes, before that nor Dalmatia, nor Dubrovnik, nor Slavonia were integral part of Croatia. That`s how started process of croatization of the Catholic and Orthodox Serbs of all those regions and all that under German supervision.
Then, local native Serbs reacted and resisted to A-H. A-H increased oppresion to the climax that provoced Serbian anwer in Sarajevo when archduke was assasinated.
You see, Austro-Hungaria was neighbourhood to Serbia but also A-H dirrectly annexed Serbian lands, territories populated with Serbs- Bosnia, Herzegovina, Dubrovnik, Dalmatia. BDW, those territores were previously liberated from Ottoman Turkish rule on the first place by Serbian and Russian efforts. Even Poles had their role in it and many died on the behalf of Serbs. But anyway, A-H took it for itself simple by annexion supported by other European and world powers.
So, Serbia as only free Serbian land on Balkan was obliged to support other Serbs, both- those under A-H rule and those still under Turkish rule. Not to mention that A-H showed intentions to anex even Serbia. They wanted to establish border with Turks and to split Serbian lands among themselves. That was mistake. Serbs took whole issue seriously and screwd both- Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman Empires.
Let it be said here that Serbian Entente allay partners- Britain and France had misunderstandings with A-H and Turks but here in the region, on Balkan, they wanted status quo. They wanted to see how Austrians and Turks rule over native Slavs. That`s what they wanted. It was Serbians solely who dealt cathastrophic charge into Austrian and Turkish joke. On the first place, Poles helped, Polish inteligentsia and fighters (in Bosnia) and, of course Russians arrived.
All in all, A-H oppresed native Serbs on territories that previously annexed and also provoked Serbia. Serbs reacted, what was their natural right.
her primary concern was to create a Southern Slav state, Yugoslavia.
primary Serbian goal was to save itself from A-H and Turkish rule and treat. Then, Serbian goal becomes to support resistance movements of Serbs in A-H and Turkish Empires. Hand in hand with it Serbia supported resistance movements in other Slavic countries (Cezska, Slovakia,...).
On the end, Serbia pledge to liberate all Balkan Slavs and losing 1/3 of its entire population in WWI managed that. Serbian army reached almost Wienna while pursued Austrians who were in panic. Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Herzegovina, Dalmatia, Dubrovnik, Kosovo, Malesia (northern Albania), Macedonia were liberated dirrectly by Serbian military involvement. In battle of Kumanovo, Serbs crashed last attampt of Ottoman Empire to survive as Europen power. Serbia even innitiated rebellion against Turks in Greece and Bulgaria and supported their resistance movements.
On the end, Yugoslavia was created as Serbs and Poles planned.
Crow
20 Oct 2009
History / Serbian contribution to Poland's independance after WWI [70]
Rebellion of local, native Bosnian Serbs against Austro-Hungarian rule, among else led dirrectly to Poland`s independance. Some historians says that Polish independance established after WWI represent consequence of chain reaction of events that as (they admit) started by Balkan Serbs. Others goes deeper and simple blame Serbs for start of WWI on the contrary of those who says that actualy Austro-Hungaria started WWI attacking Serbia. More realistic historians are aware that world powers started WWI in order to solve their mutual misunderstandings. And, that`s truth.
But, this thread deals with Serbian and Polish role in events that led to Austro-Hungarian dissaster and both- Serbian and Polish independance.
Facts are that both- Poles and Serbs desired their independance. They had plans and they coordinated. Their coordination moved Russia to act on the behalf of Serbia. All started with efforts of Polish Prince Czartoryski's and so called Serbian Constitutionalists. Their action even contributed to formation of first Yugoslavia. But, its another story...
So,... Bosnian Serbs said ENOUGH to Austro-Hungarian occupation, Habsburgs wanted to eradicate them, Serbia supported Bosnian Serbs, Austro-Hungaria attacked Serbia and Russia reacted on the behalf of Serbia. Poland got chance and grabbed it...
What i want to ask this auditorium- are you aware of this?
Polish Independence Day (part 2)
[b]Ilija Garasanin's "Nacertanije"
A REASSESSEMENT
Institute for Balkan Studies
Serbian Academy of Arts and Sciences
Belgrade, Dusan T. Batakovic
Rebellion of local, native Bosnian Serbs against Austro-Hungarian rule, among else led dirrectly to Poland`s independance. Some historians says that Polish independance established after WWI represent consequence of chain reaction of events that as (they admit) started by Balkan Serbs. Others goes deeper and simple blame Serbs for start of WWI on the contrary of those who says that actualy Austro-Hungaria started WWI attacking Serbia. More realistic historians are aware that world powers started WWI in order to solve their mutual misunderstandings. And, that`s truth.
But, this thread deals with Serbian and Polish role in events that led to Austro-Hungarian dissaster and both- Serbian and Polish independance.
Facts are that both- Poles and Serbs desired their independance. They had plans and they coordinated. Their coordination moved Russia to act on the behalf of Serbia. All started with efforts of Polish Prince Czartoryski's and so called Serbian Constitutionalists. Their action even contributed to formation of first Yugoslavia. But, its another story...
So,... Bosnian Serbs said ENOUGH to Austro-Hungarian occupation, Habsburgs wanted to eradicate them, Serbia supported Bosnian Serbs, Austro-Hungaria attacked Serbia and Russia reacted on the behalf of Serbia. Poland got chance and grabbed it...
What i want to ask this auditorium- are you aware of this?
Polish Independence Day (part 2)
Święto Niepodległości (Independence Day) - Celebrates the restoration of Poland's independence in 1918 after 123 years of partitions by Austro-Hungary, Prussia & Russia.
With a significant amount of summarising. WWI saw all the three powers that had been occupying Poland gradually defeated at the same time as a rise in Polish independence movements (primary figure being Jozef Pilsudski) and support from overseas for an independent Polish state, primarily Woodrow Wilson in the USA. The combination of these events gave rise to Poland's Second Republic.
The Austro-Hungarian Empire went into the war quite seriously under-prepared and without anything like a good enough fighting force for what was to unfold. They essentially fell out big-time with Serbia after a Serb militant group murdered the heir to their throne, Franz Ferdinand, in July 1914.
With a significant amount of summarising. WWI saw all the three powers that had been occupying Poland gradually defeated at the same time as a rise in Polish independence movements (primary figure being Jozef Pilsudski) and support from overseas for an independent Polish state, primarily Woodrow Wilson in the USA. The combination of these events gave rise to Poland's Second Republic.
The Austro-Hungarian Empire went into the war quite seriously under-prepared and without anything like a good enough fighting force for what was to unfold. They essentially fell out big-time with Serbia after a Serb militant group murdered the heir to their throne, Franz Ferdinand, in July 1914.
[b]Ilija Garasanin's "Nacertanije"
A REASSESSEMENT
Institute for Balkan Studies
Serbian Academy of Arts and Sciences
Belgrade, Dusan T. Batakovic
Prince Czartoryski's intention was to make conditions for the establishment of independent Poland by using the Eastern question. Assuming that Russia and Austria intended to divide the Balkans between themselves in the near future, as they had done with Poland (only now without Prussia which had no direct interests in the East), Czartoryski and his associates made a project of a vast Southern Slav state that should be created around Serbia, and lean on France and Great Britain in its foreign policy.
Crow
20 Oct 2009
News / Does Poland benefit from an Eastern, Western, or individualistic alliedship? [40]
Mare listen, i don`t know for all IBM paper in the world but, part of it they definitely produce in Polish town of Kwidzin. Please, let me inform you about that.
do favour to Poland and don`t interfere in Polish bussines. With such a statements (as that one above) you can ruin it.
i don`t believe it
IBM paper is all made in Asia and the US, btw. I worked for IBM once on a blue monday.
Mare listen, i don`t know for all IBM paper in the world but, part of it they definitely produce in Polish town of Kwidzin. Please, let me inform you about that.
Polish products are no better or worse than any other European products.
do favour to Poland and don`t interfere in Polish bussines. With such a statements (as that one above) you can ruin it.
They will move their Slavic operations to Sofia soon, believe you me!
i don`t believe it
Crow
20 Oct 2009
News / Does Poland benefit from an Eastern, Western, or individualistic alliedship? [40]
i had expiriance with Polish, Kwidzin`s IBM paper. Very good. Polish products are good
true
IBM
i had expiriance with Polish, Kwidzin`s IBM paper. Very good. Polish products are good
Dell and IBM are only there because of the Eastern European (Slavic) markets
true
Crow
20 Oct 2009
News / Does Poland benefit from an Eastern, Western, or individualistic alliedship? [40]
we shall see
Medvedev is these days in Belgrade
Does Poland benefit from an Eastern, Western, or individualistic alliedship?
we shall see
Medvedev is these days in Belgrade
Crow
16 Oct 2009
History / Secret grave of Polish hero 'discovered' [22]
are you aware that i never heard in my life that some Polish politician visited grawe of Zawisza Czarny in Serbia.
NATO bombs damaged monument to Zawisza and local Serbs themselves rebuilded it.
Poljaci, Poljaci
That's true! Junichiro Koziumi, ex-PM of Japan, still controversially visits shines in commemoration of past wars fought.
are you aware that i never heard in my life that some Polish politician visited grawe of Zawisza Czarny in Serbia.
NATO bombs damaged monument to Zawisza and local Serbs themselves rebuilded it.
Poljaci, Poljaci
Crow
16 Oct 2009
History / Secret grave of Polish hero 'discovered' [22]
Polish leaders are modern. They don`t give a sh** for Polish places inside of Poland same way as they don`t give a sh** for Polish places outside Poland
I wonder what Polish leaders know of places outside Poland
Polish leaders are modern. They don`t give a sh** for Polish places inside of Poland same way as they don`t give a sh** for Polish places outside Poland
Crow
16 Oct 2009
History / Secret grave of Polish hero 'discovered' [22]
what link brate?
i only inserted situation of Zawisza Czarny in context of this thread. One need imagination to understand me. Empty people can`t understand idiotism of Tusk.
Have you got a link for that?
what link brate?
i only inserted situation of Zawisza Czarny in context of this thread. One need imagination to understand me. Empty people can`t understand idiotism of Tusk.
Crow
16 Oct 2009
History / Secret grave of Polish hero 'discovered' [22]
yes- ???
listen what coming to my mind
imagine that Tusk tries to remove body of Zawisza Czarny from Serbia to Poland, saying the words... ``and so, Poland is now modern and multucultural country. If alive Zawisza could be proud of Poland`s importance in international relations. Today we aren`t in war with Turks but, we are in alliance with them. We are claver. Our Turkish friends are now good to Zawisza`s head.``
yes- ???
listen what coming to my mind
imagine that Tusk tries to remove body of Zawisza Czarny from Serbia to Poland, saying the words... ``and so, Poland is now modern and multucultural country. If alive Zawisza could be proud of Poland`s importance in international relations. Today we aren`t in war with Turks but, we are in alliance with them. We are claver. Our Turkish friends are now good to Zawisza`s head.``
Crow
15 Oct 2009
History / Secret grave of Polish hero 'discovered' [22]
grave? when we are at graves of heroes...
Then, it would be wise if Poles ask their Turkish `NATO friends` where is the head of Zawisza Czarny (Zawisza the Black). While Serbians (Racowie) saved his body from the Turkish hands and burried his remains with honour, Turks managed to take head with them. Maybe now in time of globalization under almighty `NATO world policeman`, via NATO connections, Poles could get information about Zawisza`s head. I hope that my Polish sisters and brothers won`t failed to ask Turks about this matter. You know, Zawisha loved Poland- i mean, if anybody care about that in time of multiculturalism
Source: polishroots.com/Resources/Heraldry/HerbSulima/tabid/196/Default.aspx
Polish roots - Sulima herb
grave? when we are at graves of heroes...
Then, it would be wise if Poles ask their Turkish `NATO friends` where is the head of Zawisza Czarny (Zawisza the Black). While Serbians (Racowie) saved his body from the Turkish hands and burried his remains with honour, Turks managed to take head with them. Maybe now in time of globalization under almighty `NATO world policeman`, via NATO connections, Poles could get information about Zawisza`s head. I hope that my Polish sisters and brothers won`t failed to ask Turks about this matter. You know, Zawisha loved Poland- i mean, if anybody care about that in time of multiculturalism
Then an argument arose between two Turks, as each of them made out that he was the one who captured Zawisza. One of them, envious of the good fortune his more powerful antagonist would have from the Turkish Emperor if he presented Zawisza before him, cut off his head: his head, however, was brought before the Emperor, and the inhabitants of Rascja buried his body.
Source: polishroots.com/Resources/Heraldry/HerbSulima/tabid/196/Default.aspx
Polish roots - Sulima herb
Crow
13 Oct 2009
History / Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ? [172]
hardly that murderers of Poles in WWII had intention to murdering exclusively Catholic Poles. Target were all the Poles
but, considering that Germans represent biggest murderers of Poles in general we can ask how is that possible when among them we can found significant number of Catholics. So, how is this possible?
simple answer is that in the eyes of hostile non-Slavs, all Slavs- no matter Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant represent infidels which are destined to be subjugated to the masters on so called west.
On the other side we must ask how is possible that head of all Catholics (Vatican) failed to protect Catholic Poles from Catholic Germans. This is real question
well, as a Serbian, i understand this situation. Vatican failed to protect Catholic Serbs, too. Somehow, germanization always founds way to bypass Vatican. Agressive German interests are above power of Vatican. Think about that
Responsibility for Murder of Catholic Poles during WWII ?
hardly that murderers of Poles in WWII had intention to murdering exclusively Catholic Poles. Target were all the Poles
but, considering that Germans represent biggest murderers of Poles in general we can ask how is that possible when among them we can found significant number of Catholics. So, how is this possible?
simple answer is that in the eyes of hostile non-Slavs, all Slavs- no matter Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant represent infidels which are destined to be subjugated to the masters on so called west.
On the other side we must ask how is possible that head of all Catholics (Vatican) failed to protect Catholic Poles from Catholic Germans. This is real question
well, as a Serbian, i understand this situation. Vatican failed to protect Catholic Serbs, too. Somehow, germanization always founds way to bypass Vatican. Agressive German interests are above power of Vatican. Think about that
Crow
12 Oct 2009
News / Why does Poland love the US? [144]
one of possible answers... because Poles aren`t stupid.
Polish Tusk see what USA did to Serbs and he then put cross on himself and thinks... if USA insist, bater good relations with mujaheedines, then pain that faces Serbs
arose from a blood of infidels
Why does Poland love the US?
one of possible answers... because Poles aren`t stupid.
Polish Tusk see what USA did to Serbs and he then put cross on himself and thinks... if USA insist, bater good relations with mujaheedines, then pain that faces Serbs
AND FOREVER IN PEACE MAY IT WAVE
arose from a blood of infidels
Crow
12 Oct 2009
News / POLISH PRESIDENT & PM ACTING LIKE SPOILED BRATS [15]
well, good evening and good night, in the same time
but, before going to sleep...
Yesterday, Serbia celebrated victory over Romania, in football, 5:0
Then, Serbian national news agencies commented how Poland signed Lisbon threaty. As i already mentioned, these days Poland is in evident focus of Serbian media, for all sorts of reasons
so, last thing mentioned in Serbian national news in case with Kaczyński`s comments while he ratified Lisbon document was about eventual Georgian EU membership
my spontanous reaction on it was to put cross on myself. Idiot, that Kaczyński, i said to myself. He probably likes to think about Poland as of eternaly entraped satelite state, between Russian and German interests. Instead to seek to satisfy exclusively Polish interests, he taking care of Fanch, USA and British schemes. Well, they would be thankfull to him (that for sure) but, when they grab first opportunity they would sold Polish people, as they sold Serbs.
good night from NATO colony- little Serbia
Good evening Crow how is Serbia today?
well, good evening and good night, in the same time
but, before going to sleep...
Yesterday, Serbia celebrated victory over Romania, in football, 5:0
Then, Serbian national news agencies commented how Poland signed Lisbon threaty. As i already mentioned, these days Poland is in evident focus of Serbian media, for all sorts of reasons
so, last thing mentioned in Serbian national news in case with Kaczyński`s comments while he ratified Lisbon document was about eventual Georgian EU membership
my spontanous reaction on it was to put cross on myself. Idiot, that Kaczyński, i said to myself. He probably likes to think about Poland as of eternaly entraped satelite state, between Russian and German interests. Instead to seek to satisfy exclusively Polish interests, he taking care of Fanch, USA and British schemes. Well, they would be thankfull to him (that for sure) but, when they grab first opportunity they would sold Polish people, as they sold Serbs.
good night from NATO colony- little Serbia
Crow
11 Oct 2009
News / POLISH PRESIDENT & PM ACTING LIKE SPOILED BRATS [15]
more like a bad and good cop
their game is now obvious
both of them serve well masters on so called west
POLISH PRESIDENT & PM ACTING LIKE SPOILED BRATS
more like a bad and good cop
their game is now obvious
both of them serve well masters on so called west
Crow
10 Oct 2009
Crow
10 Oct 2009
History / Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland? [150]
on a first look one must notice that facts are reversed
question is - how was the West portrayed in Poland?
any Serbian would tell you that he consider Poland as the West, not France, Britain, Germany or USA or etc... see what i want to tell you
Matters of Propaganda...Or: how was the West portrayed in Poland?
on a first look one must notice that facts are reversed
question is - how was the West portrayed in Poland?
any Serbian would tell you that he consider Poland as the West, not France, Britain, Germany or USA or etc... see what i want to tell you
Crow
10 Oct 2009
News / Are Poles happy about the impending Federal states of Europe? [20]
yes, Poland is turned in real German, Franch and English lap dog thanks to idiotism of Tusk and Kaczynski
look at Serbs. They recognized EU as threat for Slavija and they urinate it
Crow
Saw this?
Saw this?
President of Poland signs Lisbon Treaty
Lech Kaczynski, Poland’s president, has signed the Lisbon treaty, leaving the Czech Republic the only country yet to ratify the controversial European Union reform plan.
Lech Kaczynski, Poland’s president, has signed the Lisbon treaty, leaving the Czech Republic the only country yet to ratify the controversial European Union reform plan.
yes, Poland is turned in real German, Franch and English lap dog thanks to idiotism of Tusk and Kaczynski
look at Serbs. They recognized EU as threat for Slavija and they urinate it